Felix, a question.

[44man]

I have used ivory soap forever but a thought has come up. What about Murphy's oil soap? I wonder how much would replace a TBSP of Ivory?
I have used it for BPCR lube.

[felix]

No idea, Jim. It prolly is NOT a stearate of any sort. But, if it is, then by all means it should do the job. If it is a polymer, then it might work as well. Therefore, you know the game....try it and see what happens. ... felix

[44man]

No idea, Jim. It prolly is NOT a stearate of any sort. But, if it is, then by all means it should do the job. If it is a polymer, then it might work as well. Therefore, you know the game....try it and see what happens. ... felix
OK, I will make a small batch. It seems to keep all ingredients for the BPCR lube together without separating.
So many oils to play with too. Coconut oil, Safflower oil. ATF and Lube Guard, all seed based. High smoke point oils.
Not enough hours in the day!

[Marlin Junky]

I have used ivory soap forever but a thought has come up. What about Murphy's oil soap? I wonder how much would replace a TBSP of Ivory?
I have used it for BPCR lube.

If you're talking about the liquid soap, it contains a lot of water and I wasn't very happy with the outcome.

Main ingredients:
http://www.colgate.com/MurphyOilSoap/products/Product-Ingredients/original-formula

Oh, for a BP lube?... beats me.

MJ

[geargnasher]

+1 MJ.

Somebody told me once to substitute MOS for half the Canola in Emmert's, it seems to break the fouling down better in dry weather. I always thought it contained glyceryine, but after reading that link I guess not.

Gear

[44man]

If you're talking about the liquid soap, it contains a lot of water and I wasn't very happy with the outcome.

Main ingredients:
http://www.colgate.com/MurphyOilSoap/products/Product-Ingredients/original-formula

Oh, for a BP lube?... beats me.

MJ
I never buy the liquid stuff. Too much water and designed so you use it fast and need to buy more.
Old soap was fat and lye or wood ashes. I don't know what forms the stearate.
Remember the old Fels-Naptha bars? I used to tan deer hides in the stuff.

[felix]

Stearates are formed when oils/fats meet hydroxides and the metal component, if any, comes from the impurities in either component. No metals? That's called stearic acid, a pure stearate in a sense. Not really, because all stearates contain water molecules, like lanolin does. In other words, there is really no such thing as anhydrous lanolin or stearate. They call them anhydrous because all the easy water has been driven off without destroying the product, and the product becoming something else. As far as we are concerned that water will be driven off after the product has entered the lube mix and has its heating time to do the job intended for the product. This is why the lube gets better each time you heat it up from a cold start. Making the lube smoke is never a good idea because the desired volatile stuff vaporizes, including any water needed by the "formula". BP lubes should contain some "free" water molecules to keep the carbon compounds from getting the idea they should turn to diamonds after being fired up. ... felix

[44man]

Stearates are formed when oils/fats meet hydroxides and the metal component, if any, comes from the impurities in either component. No metals? That's called stearic acid, a pure stearate in a sense. Not really, because all stearates contain water molecules, like lanolin does. In other words, there is really no such thing as anhydrous lanolin or stearate. They call them anhydrous because all the easy water has been driven off without destroying the product, and the product becoming something else. As far as we are concerned that water will be driven off after the product has entered the lube mix and has its heating time to do the job intended for the product. This is why the lube gets better each time you heat it up from a cold start. Making the lube smoke is never a good idea because the desired volatile stuff vaporizes, including any water needed by the "formula". BP lubes should contain some "free" water molecules to keep the carbon compounds from getting the idea they should turn to diamonds after being fired up. ... felix
I agree. Water is needed, period. I know nothing about chemistry.
BP is where the water in the lube or the ability of the lube left in the bore to absorb water is important to soften fouling.
Can that be why I hate Alox? It is a water repellant.
I hate SPG too, the last 10" of my bores get very hard fouling that need wet patches to remove. Not because water softens SPG but because water acts like a lube to push the junk out and softens the powder fouling.
I had a large hunk of it left and tried to sell it at shoots. I put a sign up--FREE and could not get rid of it.

[Marlin Junky]

Stearates are formed when oils/fats meet hydroxides and the metal component, if any, comes from the impurities in either component.

The metal component (actually the cation, Na+) from Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) combines with stearic acid (a saturated fatty acid having the form of a waxy solid at room temp) to form Sodium Stearate. The more Stearic Acid content in a given fat, the higher the percent yield of Sodium Stearate from the reaction. If you want to make your own high Sodium Stearate content soaps, use a fat that's high in Stearic Acid; e.g., beef fat (IIRC, deer fat is also high in Stearic Acid). Lard (from porkie) is not anywhere near as high in SA as beef fat. Ivory soap is made from butcher scraps and varies from batch to batch in Sodium Stearate content because they don't sort the fats. I hope that helps clear up any confusion and explains why if one desires Sodium Stearate for lube making, the best thing to do is contact a source such as:

http://kyantec.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php

Sodium Stearate starts on the 33rd page and continues to page 34 in the "S Chemicals" section... it's not a very user friendly website but the prices and quality are good.

MJ