Great day with the 44 Mag.....

[saz]

I finally got a chance to hit the range last night. Over the last few years I have been refining the heavy load for my 4 5/8" SBH. In Alaska it goes EVERYWHERE with me; hiking, fishing, camping, hunting etc.... I have been using a couple of different boolits over the years like CP 320's and beartooth 355's with different powders like 2400, H110, and my personal favorite til now AA#9.

I have been working with Lil Gun in my 44 mag and my 454 Puma for a while now and I like it a lot. I will start with this; I have heard all the rumors about FA not recommending it in their revolvers, it burns too hot, etc etc... I talked to a guy at Hodgdon a while back and he said that yes the earlier lots had (if memory serves me correctly) too much nitroclycerine that was causing the above problems. I have not experienced those issues and I am finishing my second pound of it.

The load I have settled on is:
Starline brass, 17grs of Lil Gun, CCI 350 and a Lee 310 cast from water dropped WW's, lubed with 45-45-10. I was shooting with my hands rested on the bench at 25 yds. I wasnt taking as much time as I should have as I was a little pressed for time. Here are the results:

1st string of 5 grouped in 1.5"- I had 4 shots under an inch and threw the fifth.
2nd string of 5 was right at 1.25".
Chrono results:

String #1 String #2
1205 1206
1205 1210
1208 1207
1208 1206
1211 1210


I think if I could have taken my time the groups may have been better. I know that it isnt that impressive at 25 yards, but I am also not that great of a shot with a pistol, although I am trying!

[subsonic]

Sounds like a good load! Must be a handfull in that gun. The 4 5/8" SBHs had standard blackhawk gripframes from what I remember?


I have a pound of lil-gun, but have been on the fence about using it in anything. I loaded some .30 Herretts in progressing steps to what I thought might be close to a max load and shot them watching for pressure and seeing what the chronograph said. I don't remember velocity or pressure signs off the top of my head, or even charges (written somewhere), but the brass all came out looking annealed - like Lapua brass.... was a bit spooky. I haven't messed with it since.

[randyrat]

Sounds like good shootin to me. I am wondering what was your OAL. Did you use the long loading crimp grove or the short. 1.750 or 1.650 or somewhere close.

I figured 19 or so grains would be 1200 ft/sec, but your getting 1200 ft/sec at 17 grains. I'm guessing your boolits didn't come out to a full 310 grs, maybe a little lighter?

I am thinking about trying some of that Lil gun also.

[454PB]

I use Lil'Gun in all my magnums, and like you, I've seen no worse heating or erosion problems than I've seen with H-110 or 296.

During one test session, I chronographed the 310 gr. Lee at 1400 fps. in my Ruger RH with 7 1/2" barrel. No, I'm not using that load, but it was the top end of a progressive string for testing. I shutter to think of shooting a load like that in a gun with less strength.

[Heavy lead]

I've heard and worried about the heating as well, however continue to use it in the .357, .44, .454 and .475.
It simply shines for me in the .357 and is very good in the rest too, I just don't see the heat everyone else talks about, and I've monitored it as close a possible with what I have. My 8 pound jug is about half gone and I like it better than H110. I guess I'll keep using it, it does not seem to be nearly as sensitive as H110/WW296 when it is loaded at starting loads and I'm not running book max loads with it either, except for the .357.

[nicholst55]

I guess I'm a less-than-stellar revolver shooter, because 1.25-1.5" groups at 25 yards sounds plenty good to me - especially with stout loads!

[saz]

subsonic- I'm not sure about the gripframe size, but the recoil isnt bad. The only thing that bothers me after a bit is the bottom of my trigger finger when it catches the tip of the trigger under recoil, and when the pinkey of my shooting hand rolls under the grip.

Randyrat- I crimp in the bottom groove giving me a coal of 1.695". I am casting with straight WW's and the lubed and checked boolits weigh in at 317grs +/- 1gr. Give the Lil Gun a try and you might leave the 110/296 alone as I have. I really like how clean it shoots, and it meters really well in my Lee perfect powder measure. And no squibs! Had one with 296- made me pucker a little.....

454PB & Heavy lead- Yeah, I have pushed my 454 puma pretty hard with this stuff and no issues yet. I went to the top end working up a 340gr boolit and pushed it right up over 1900fps. Like you that is not the load I settled on, just the top end of development.

I did do a little torture test last night- I pushed out 18 rounds at a 6" rock about 40 yards out as fast as I could, and I could still hold the pistol by the barrel. Granted it was hot, but not what others have reported. Bottom line is I love the stuff ALMOST as much as my Unique and Red Dot.......

[Leadforbrains]

What size are you sizing your boolits?

[saz]

Sizing. 4315"

[44man]

Interesting. Has Hodgdon changed Lil'Gun?
I turned a .357 into a soldering iron with 12 shots. Water would sizzle on the barrel.

[subsonic]

It would be nice if Hodgdon would publish what lot numbers were bad, if indeed there were some that they admit had problems.

[429421Cowboy]

Saz; There is a story to warm my heart:grin: My 4 5/8 SBH is never out of reach all of my waking hours, especially at work or play as we have almost as many things that will eat you here as you do there, only usually smaller (they can only barely kill you). I've been looking into a source of 300+ grain boolits and was thinking H110 but now you may have changed my mind. I solved the pinky problem after i developed another blood blister by getting a set of Hogue Mono's. They are big but they give me a place for my pinky now, even with my small hands the factory's gave me fits. The SBH grip frame on the shorter barreled Ruger's is a round trigger guard, steel grip frame. Longer bbl's have the square trigger guard and the BH's have alumiunim grip frames. Thus if you do choose the Monogrip, you will need one for a standard Blackawk not the Super as the trigger guard won't fit. It also guves a bit of a Bisley angle to it allowing it to roll in the hand and the contours really lock it into my hand. I also love Unique loads! We stuff a 240 swc on top of 9.5 for our everyday loads in our SBH's and our practice loads. Don't have much use for anything lighter and i know it'll do is job. I only carry 340 grain +P+ Buffalo Bore GC WFN rounds for serious work right now as i trust my life on them but i'd love to laod my own heavy boolits. Good luck to you sir, thanks for the great post!
Cowboy

[saz]

Interesting. Has Hodgdon changed Lil'Gun?
I turned a .357 into a soldering iron with 12 shots. Water would sizzle on the barrel.



From what the guy I talked to said, they did because of the very issue you had. I'm pretty sure he said there is less nitroglycerine in it now. I love it. It is the most consistent powder I have tried. It drops velocity a bit more than H110 in the cold, but who cares. The accuracy is still there. I take this gun everywhere with me, and I always happen to have my huntung license and a brown bear locking tag whenever my wife and I go hiking. Funny, I see 10X more bears out hiking and fishing than I do when I am actually bear hunting! NO bear is safe within 75 yards!

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with you there. It sure didnt take a rocket scientist to notice the differnce between it and 110, 297, and 820 to me. I can light cigerttes of the barrel of my 50 beowulf after 10 quick shots(actually did it). With 110 i can still touch the barrel. If it hasnt done damage to your gun yet be patient, it will!
Interesting. Has Hodgdon changed Lil'Gun?
I turned a .357 into a soldering iron with 12 shots. Water would sizzle on the barrel.

[Lloyd Smale]

a guy from the accurate fourm contacted them about 3 months ago because of this rummor and they said they have changed nothing and as a matter of fact denied there was any problem with it. Actually if you keep it in context that this powder wasnt intended as a pistol powder to begin with it was designed as a powder mostly for 410s and that could be used for 22 hornets 2520s 3220s ect that for the most part are not shoot fast. Used like that its ugly side would never have been seen.
From what the guy I talked to said, they did because of the very issue you had. I'm pretty sure he said there is less nitroglycerine in it now. I love it. It is the most consistent powder I have tried. It drops velocity a bit more than H110 in the cold, but who cares. The accuracy is still there. I take this gun everywhere with me, and I always happen to have my huntung license and a brown bear locking tag whenever my wife and I go hiking. Funny, I see 10X more bears out hiking and fishing than I do when I am actually bear hunting! NO bear is safe within 75 yards!

[tek4260]

Lilgun gave great velocity in my muzzleloader. I still have a few pounds here, but have not loaded any.

[roysha]

ANY day with a 44 Magnum (especially a 629-1 with an 8 3/8" barrel and finger groove grips) is a GREAT DAY!!

[saz]

I guess I havent seen any of the issues that yall have. I cought wind of the issues a while back when I was working up loads for my 454 Puma so I stopped and called a local gunsmith and asked him to take a look at the gun. He checked out the chaimber and bore with a borescope and said it looked fine. Maybe cause it is in a closed breech?

I have not noticed any heat issues using the stuff, also during cleaning I have not noticed anything out of the ordinary with my SBH. Besides throat erosion, what other things should I be looking for?

[EDK]

subsonic- I'm not sure about the gripframe size, but the recoil isnt bad. The only thing that bothers me after a bit is the bottom of my trigger finger when it catches the tip of the trigger under recoil, and when the pinkey of my shooting hand rolls under the grip.

.................................................. .................................................. ................

I have the same problems with the XR3-red grip frame and factory grips. There are several cures.

Custom flat bottom grips like EAGLE GRIPS GUNFIGHTER model. I've got them on 357 Original Size VAQUEROS with the XR3-red grip frame.

Install a DRAGOON or HUNTER grip frame from a long barreled SUPER BLACKHAWK. Good with factory grips and superb with the GUNFIGHTERS.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[Changeling]

Guys it would probably be very helpful if you gave the lot number to the LiL Gun powder/ load/ revolver you are using, this way a more informational formation of data could be achieved.
As it is, it's just a bunch of conflicting information.

It would only take you a couple seconds to edit your post and input what data you have.

Just a suggestion, that would interest me and I think a LOT of others.

[454PB]

ALL disclaimers apply. These are MY loads and safe in MY guns. Don't use them in any of yours without proper load development!

In my Ruger Redhawk with 7 1/2" barrel:

Lee 310 gr. GC, sized .430", seated to crimp in the front crimp groove

19.1 gr. Lil'Gun (lot # 1 12080339)

CCI 350 primers

Average velocity of 10 shots 1380 fps.

In my Ruger SRH .454 Casull with 7 1/2" barrel:

Lyman 452651 330 gr. GC, sized .452", seated to crimp in the rear crimp groove

28.5 Lil'Gun (same lot)

CCI 400 primers

Average velocity of 10 shots 1573 fps.