Heavy Bullet/Mold For .357 Mag. (Revolvers)

[maglvr]

Hi Folks:
I am looking for ideas on a heavyweight boolit, for use in 357 revolvers, I am not worried about it feeding in a lever gun.
I have a 358429 on the way, but would also like to try something heavier yet. It should be a flat nose/wide meplat or SWC/Keith design, with a flat base. I'm thinking 180gr. on up to 210gr.
I only use UNIQUE and 2400. 1100-1200fps with a heavy boolit is plenty of velocity for me.
So, my question to you all is this.......
What bullets/molds do you have hands-on experience with, that might be what I am looking for?
Thank you for your time!! :popcorn:
maglvr

[cbrick]

RCBS 35 200 Gr.

Rick

[JIMinPHX]

I modified a .357 mold once-upon-a-time so that it would drop a heavier boolit. More on that here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=76745

Also, Ranch Dog sells a heavy .35 cal boolit mold with a real big meplat. If you are not opposed to tumble lube designs, it's a dandy.

[bhn22]

185 LBT FN. It's available in plain base or gascheck versions, custom fit to your gun. The same design is available up to 200 gr or so.

[RU shooter]

Saeco #351 200 gr plain base

[r6487]

missouri bullet co 357 180 grain rnfb

[maglvr]

missouri bullet co 357 180 grain rnfb

I actually ordered some of those, I was very disappointed with the very small meplat.
They will be for sale very soon.

[GLL]

BRP 360-200
http://www.fototime.com/EC9A2CDBCE190B9/standard.jpg

360180 NOE
http://www.fototime.com/93D3C1AC0B426F9/standard.jpg

358627
http://www.fototime.com/D567983BBE2911D/standard.jpg

BRP 360-180
http://www.fototime.com/0D76FBEA2170344/standard.jpg

Jerry

[MBTcustom]

I dont know about flat point boolits, but my favorite boolit for .38spc or .357mag is a 200 grain RN design. You cant go wrong with heavy boolits in .357mag. Powder is still more expensive than lead and running heavier boolits means less powder.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I really like Ranch Dog's 190gr design for my 357 loads.

[357shooter]

Keep an eye out for a 360-200-SWC NOE group buy.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/Landric/user221_pic1282_1252726440.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/Landric/user221_pic1315_1252932735.jpg

[bobthenailer]

The RCBS 35-200 may possibley be the most accurate cast bullet or one of the most accurate in any 35 caliber firearm expecially at 100 + yards .

[maglvr]

Thanks everybody, for the replies and pics!
So many styles, so little time and money!!:groner:

[leadman]

I have a Saeco 180gr RFN GC that is very accurate and easy to cast with.

[turbo1889]

I have had very good results with my AM#36-210C design (picture is clickable link):

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/5094831259_5c105b3ecd.jpg (http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-210C-D.png)

I am a little partial though since it is my own design. If I were to do it again there are a some changes I would make that would make it a GCed design and reduce the weight down to about 200 rather then 210 grains:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5057/5434899198_9f151cd2af.jpg

[GLL]

Not exactly what you are looking for but something to consider. Both versions of the 358430 are very accurate in my target revolvers !

Jerry

358430
http://www.fototime.com/17E47F2BF83493A/standard.jpg

358315
http://www.fototime.com/4FF0C7829E1BB91/standard.jpg

[PacMan]

One the left is a 180 gr LBT and the right is a 200 gr LBT.
I had the 200 grain cut with 2 lube groves with intention of using in a .357 max rifle.
Bullet would be shorter with only one lube grove giving a little more powder room.
Both bullets are set up to function thru. a Marlin 1894 and i use them in handguns and the Marlin.

[9.3X62AL]

Another vote for the Lyman #358430/195 grain version. SUPERBLY accurate in every 38 Special or 357 Magnum I've fired it through, and while its RN shape isn't real fashionable for game-taking the boolit can be cast as a soft-point.

The W-W "book" load using WW-296 and WSPM primers is 12.4 grains. In a 7.5" BisHawk, this load runs about 1215-1220 FPS, and from a 4" 686 it goes a bit over 1100. It flattens jackrabbits right effin' now, and whacks a coyote with authority. That's when cast from 92.6.2 alloy, I should add.

[MT Gianni]

358627 runs 235 gr and was developed for the 357 Maximum. There is printed data for it in 357 cases.

[maglvr]

Great looking bullets guys!!! What kind of velocity can be expected, in 357mag. or 38spl. case with that heavy monster from a 358627 mold?

[PacMan]

Not sure what the velocity would be but fired in a revolver the gc would be a waste. The problem with the 180 gr and up Keith or SWC designs is that they eat up too much powder space. They llok really neat and all but once they are loaded they all look the same.

If you want the best of both worlds a heavy bullet and real usable velocity i would sugest a 200 gr flat nose design with a single lube grove and your choice gc or not. I had a Noe 200 gr keith.Beautiful bullet but after loading it looked like ny other keith design and left little room for powder.

JMO ya know.
Dwight

[357shooter]

Regarding the heavy Keith's, the NOE 200 works well for me. I believe I loaded with 11.8 grains of H110 (Winchester showed in the past 12.4 grains max of 296 for 1,335FPS) and recall it shot well. That probably exceeds the 1,100 - 1,200 fps mentioned in the OP.


One great option is take an NOE 358-429 and lap it. Mine now drops .3604 diameter bullets that weigh in at 176-178 grains, with soft alloy. The best of both worlds. a great proven design, with a little more weight.

[GP100man]

With available case space & the length of cylinders it starts gettin tricky after 180grainers!!

I have the NOE 360 180 cast as a solid from my alloy & lubed it`s 187gr. The weight does`nt bother me , but it`s a superb bore rider design & have yet to find 1 of my 38/357 wheel guns that did`nt shoot it !!

The real challenge is learning the rainbow ballistics !!!!

[Good Cheer]

Not sure what the velocity would be but fired in a revolver the gc would be a waste. The problem with the 180 gr and up Keith or SWC designs is that they eat up too much powder space. They llok really neat and all but once they are loaded they all look the same.

If you want the best of both worlds a heavy bullet and real usable velocity i would sugest a 200 gr flat nose design with a single lube grove and your choice gc or not. I had a Noe 200 gr keith.Beautiful bullet but after loading it looked like ny other keith design and left little room for powder.

JMO ya know.
Dwight

Thumbs up on flat noses.
Having a single lube groove on a flat nosed boolit filling the chamber from case mouth to the front of the cylinder is ideal for me. NEI's old GC WC works well when so loaded even though it is not "heavy". And it has the same problem as many design...the lube grooves locations dictate the crimping and therefore the loaded overall length and loss of powder space.

And, sometimes when sizing the front portion of the WC that it slides up into the chamber throat of the cylinder, the rifling geometry can make a difference in what diameter works better. Noticed that in .357's with Ruger steel versus stainless barrels and Colt versus other brands.

[turbo1889]

Great looking bullets guys!!! What kind of velocity can be expected, in 357mag. or 38spl. case . . . ?

The revolver velocities I was able to obtain were 600 to 700 fps for the 38-spl. and 900 to 1,100 fps for the 357-mag with my AM#36-210C depending on the exact load and gun they were used in. I also have a 357-max carbine rifle and I was able to get even higher velocities out of it both with 357-mag and 357-max loads.


. . . The problem with the 180 gr and up Keith or SWC designs is that they eat up too much powder space. . . . If you want the best of both worlds a heavy bullet and real usable velocity i would sugest a 200 gr flat nose design with a single lube grove and your choice gc or not. I had a Noe 200 gr keith.Beautiful bullet but after loading it looked like ny other keith design and left little room for powder. . .


With available case space & the length of cylinders it starts gettin tricky after 180grainers!! . . . .


Thumbs up on flat noses.
Having a single lube groove on a flat nosed boolit filling the chamber from case mouth to the front of the cylinder is ideal for me. NEI's old GC WC works well when so loaded even though it is not "heavy". And it has the same problem as many design...the lube grooves locations dictate the crimping and therefore the loaded overall length and loss of powder space. . . .

Exactly !!! My boolit was designed to fully fill up the throat on a revolver and put as much of the boolit mass outside the case mouth as possible to minimize how much of the powder space was taken up by the boolit.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/5066225751_888bda3ec0.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/54455625@N04/5066225751/)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4151/5066836222_5cc846df9d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/54455625@N04/5066836222/)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4146/5066836760_021caa562e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/54455625@N04/5066836760/)

[PacMan]

Not disputing 357 Shooter claim of 1335 FPS with the Noe 200 gr but i would like to know what gun and barrel length was used. And what was the accuracy of the load? Also stating loads and i think at the same time tends to be dangerous in this line of work.The 900 to 1000 fps quoted by Turbo would be what i would think be a more realistic number.

The OP asked about velocity with the 358627 which is a diffrent animal than the 200 gr noe.

[357shooter]

Not disputing 357 Shooter claim of 1335 FPS with the Noe 200 gr but i would like to know what gun and barrel length was used. And what was the accuracy of the load? Also stating loads and i think at the same time tends to be dangerous in this line of work.The 900 to 1000 fps quoted by Turbo would be what i would think be a more realistic number.

The OP asked about velocity with the 358627 which is a diffrent animal than the 200 gr noe.
The load data is from Winchester. You should be able to see a scanned version at:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar4xSLouy2aUdDBOYTlQX2dIVDdWZUdNTWdxNkVXN 1E&hl=en_US

Looks like a 8.375 inch barrel.

[PacMan]

357 Shooter i was not disputing what you said completely.I took a look at the Winchester data and have no doubt that they did in fact get 1335FPS with a 200 grain bullet. Have not a clue which bullet they used , i guess it could have been a Keith type.

Your post lead me to beleive that you had got that velocity with a Keith type bullet. If so more info please.I saved some of the 200gr Noes and i want to give it a try in my 6" GP100.I know it will be a little short. I know on your other spread sheet you show that bullet at only 730FPS but good accuracy.
thanks

[357shooter]

I actually got the best accuracy with the light loads with the 200 grain SWC. The velocity I mentioned was estimated base on using the Lee Reduced Load calculator.

I did try the light load in a GP100 but it didn't shoot as well as it did in the Taurus. I just picked up a Blackhawk 357 and need to try it in that gun.

Give the loads a try and let me know how they shoot in your Ruger.

[PacMan]

Well not really instrested in that light of load.Still would like to know what gun and barrel length you used to get the winchester veloicty of 1335FPS and what kind of accuracy.

thanks
dwight

[725]

Have used the 358627 in .38 spec,.357, and .357 Max. It's great. The .357 knocks wild boar over in their tracks. It's been a long time, but I remember an article titled "A bullet for all seasons" or some such and it's reviewed it in lots of cartridges. 600 fps + in .38 and up for the larger cartridges. One of my must have moulds.

[white eagle]

I have been using a 200 gr.
from Mountain Molds if you recall
how his system works its a personalized boolit
us started out as a Tangential ogive but with the program he uses
you can move things around and modify it to your tastes
does real well with 12.0 gr w 296

[maglvr]

Thanks guys! So much good info here!! Always a pleasure reading the different options and viewpoints.

maglvr

[357shooter]

Well not really instrested in that light of load.Still would like to know what gun and barrel length you used to get the winchester veloicty of 1335FPS and what kind of accuracy.

thanks
dwight
None. It's from the recipe that I pointed you too.

[frank505]

THe 200 grain Keith mold from Ballisti Cast or the Lyman 358627 are superb 357 bullets. Too bad either are not available. The 200 grain keith does 1200+ from my 5 inch Blackhawk, the 358627 does 1125 from the same. Have not pressure tested either load, both shoot better than I can hold.

[cbrick]

Dwight, it sounds like your doubting a velocity of 1335 fps from a 357 mag revolver. I can assure you it is very doable.

FA 357 Mag 9", iron sights.
RCBS 180 Silhouette at 188 gr cast of WW + 2% Sn, HT to 18 BHN.
Not a load I'll put on the internet lest someone tries it in their favorite hand grenade, (Colt or S&W). Perfectly safe in the FA. The powder is H-110.

Results of 3 ten shot chrono tests averaged:
ES: 35
AV: 1548 fps
SD: 10

Accurate? I have won long range revolver state championships with a perfect score of 60x60 with this load. If your not familiar with silhouette that's shooting out to 200 meters (218 yards).

Rick

[PacMan]

cbrick not really doubting it i dont guess. The OP was looking for a heavier bullet and the 358627 and the Noe 200 grain Keith came up and was sugested that they could be pushed to 1335fps. Now i have no doubt that they can be but in what guns and barrel length.
Now i could be wrong but i would not bet a nickel that i could do it with my 5" GP100.

Have thought of getting a FA but man they are high.By the way what is the max. col for the FA?

I guess i just did not want the guy to get all giddy over those two very long Keith style bullets and not be happy in the end.

Man that is some great shooting there.
Dwight

[cbrick]

I'll have to measure the cylinder, don't remember off hand what the max length is but you are correct, it is longer than any other cylinder allowing more bullet out of the case and more powder capacity. FA uses the same frame and cylinder from the 454 for all of the center fire cartridges in the model 83 so the cylinder is the same length. Smaller holes for 357 of course so a lot more steel around those holes.

FA's don't have to be nearly as expensive as the list price on FA's web site. Those prices would scare a Rockefeller. I order mine from my gunsmith, he tacks on about $100 over his dealer price and does all the FFL paper work. Many hundreds cheaper that way. So it all depends on who you buy it from I guess. My last FA I bought used and got it for $1000.00, the model 252 10 inch 22 rimfire.

Rick

[357shooter]

Dwight, it sounds like your doubting a velocity of 1335 fps from a 357 mag revolver. I can assure you it is very doable.

FA 357 Mag 9", iron sights.
RCBS 180 Silhouette at 188 gr cast of WW + 2% Sn, HT to 18 BHN.
Not a load I'll put on the internet lest someone tries it in their favorite hand grenade, (Colt or S&W). Perfectly safe in the FA. The powder is H-110.

Results of 3 ten shot chrono tests averaged:
ES: 35
AV: 1548 fps
SD: 10

Accurate? I have won long range revolver state championships with a perfect score of 60x60 with this load. If your not familiar with silhouette that's shooting out to 200 meters (218 yards).

Rick

uh,wow. that's a load you have developed there. I'm just learning to deal with the IHMSA 100yard version of silhouette. Great shooting cbrick.

It turns out that shooting animal shaped metal targets is ton of fun.