Winchester 92 clones.

[shooter2]

I've been trying to get a Cimarron model 92 clone in .45 Colt that will feed properly from the magazine. My dealer says that one is on the way, but it seems to be dragging on and on. Some have mentioned a Rossi, but I looked at their web site and it seems like they are only making single shots these days. Uberti makes some Winchester copies, but nothing past the model 73. I'd prefer something with a case colored receiver, but at this point I am not getting fussy.

So, here's the question, what manufacturers are making new 92 copies and are available from dealers.

[Scrounger]

I've been trying to get a Cimarron model 92 clone in .45 Colt that will feed properly from the magazine. My dealer says that one is on the way, but it seems to be dragging on and on. Some have mentioned a Rossi, but I looked at their web site and it seems like they are only making single shots these days. Uberti makes some Winchester copies, but nothing past the model 73. I'd prefer something with a case colored receiver, but at this point I am not getting fussy.

So, here's the question, what manufacturers are making new 92 copies and are available from dealers.

http://www.navyarms.com/html/92_rifles-carbs.html

http://www.legacysports.com/puma/index.htm

[454PB]

I have a Puma 92 in .454 Casull. It's a well made little rifle, very compact and light. I've read a lot of reports of stock forearm splitting on these, but mine has about 500 rounds of heavy .454 loads through it without any problems.

[Buckshot]

...............Rossi/Taurus does indeed make a clone of the 1892 Winchester. I just got one in November last year. It's a Legacy Sports import. Photo's at:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=10682

It's a very nice rifle. I've added a Marbles tang sight to it since.

Buckshot

[veeman]

I've got a real nice Rossi 92, 44-40. No safety or rebounding hammer. Hits where I aim every time. Great little gun.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I have a little '92 clone , 20" Round barrel Navy Arms/Rossi, blue, CC that does very, very well with non-boolit bullits. Barrel is a bit rough, but hopefully after it smooths a bit.....

[lar45]

What is the max length that will feed in the 45 Colt and 454?

I have a Rossi M92 in 357 and really like it. I'd like to find another one and convert it to my 30 Erin cartridge. 38 special full length sized in 7.62x25 die. I initially started forming brass by pushing 38 cases up into a 30-06 die, then noticed that the 7.62x25 was almost identicle in sholder placement.

[454PB]

Good question, lar45. My Puma is touchy about COL, and I have to seat my Lee 325 gr. GC boolits to crimp in the front groove for proper feeding in my .454. I'll have to measure one to answer your question. I think it's more of a profile problem than a length problem, that Lee boolit is close to a soupcan.

[Poohgyrr]

I have an EMF CC 16" octagon barrel in .44 Special that is doing well for me. I really like it a lot and hope to get it's twin in .357.

http://www.emf-company.com/1892-winchester-rifle-carbine.htm

I'd recommend Steve Young www.stevesgunz.com Steve is also the warranty guy for EMF here in the USA. He'll ship you a new one, tuned, for a good price, considering what new guns go for today. Check his website or email him to see the differences between the EMF brand of Rossi made M92s with the other brands.

Navy Arms also sells Rossi made M92s with their brand name on the Levers:

http://www.navyarms.com/html/92_rifles-carbs.html

[Buckshot]

What is the max length that will feed in the 45 Colt and 454?

http://www.fototime.com/744223B96FDE8AF/standard.jpg

The case is crimped over the top of the narrow band in front of the crimp groove. If crimped into the crimp groove, the OAL with this boolit in the Colt case is 1.750". This fits nicely in the chamber of my Ruger OM Vaquero.

I shoould add that so far I have found that my rifle definately like slugs sized .454" over the same ones sized to .452".

....................Buckshot

[Boomer Mikey]

I own 4 Rossi PUMA 1892's... 2, 20" round barrel carbines and 2, 24" octagon long rifles in 357 and 44 Magnum and a Navy Arms .357 Magnum 1892 short rifle with a 20" octagon barrel made by Rossi. All of my 1892's are in stainless steel.

All 5 of my Rossi 1892's shoot well, I only needed to send one back for replacement, it had a .435" groove diameter (44 mag carbine). They said my other 44 mag was within spec's with a .433" groove diameter. It shot .431" boolits well but leaded the barrel plenty. It shoots great now and no leading with boolits sized at .434".

1.600" - 1.650" is the range of maximum COAL my PUMA's will feed depending on the size of the boolit's meplat and the boolit's nose profile. This appears to be typical for the 1.285' long cartridge cases... 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, 45 Colt, and 480 Ruger.

I see the PUMA is available in 454 Casull and the maximum COAL for the Casull is 1.765". I wonder if the 92's shooting 357 mag, 44 mag, 45 Colt and Ruger 480 can be tweaked to feed longer COAL's easily.

It would be nice to be able to feed up to 1.750" COAL in the PUMA 92 to match the COAL of heavier boolit loads used in my Ruger Vaquero's with crimp grooves at .400" or .450". The throats in the PUMA's are long enough to take the heavier boolits, they just won't feed through the action.

Boomer :Fire:

[454PB]

The length of my .454 Casull loaded ammo is 1.760" using the Lyman 452651 330 gr., and they won't feed reliably in my Puma unless crimped in the front groove. So....that should be around 1.750" COL. The deeper seating requires a reduction in powder of around 5%.

[lar45]

Thanks for the info.
Glenn.

[MikeSSS]

A couple weeks ago I drove 350 miles in the rain to visit Steve Young and another 350 in the rain to get home. Even had a flat at midnight and changed it in the rain after digging the spare out from under my shooting stuff. The trip was well worth it and that is an understatement.

Steve is "Mr. 92" but I bought a 94 Marlin slicked by him. Boy is it slick, you have to look to see that there are cartriges in it, you can't feel them run through it.

I got to sample an original 92 and an EMF Hartford 92 with his action jobs. Ran dummy cartriges through them and they are just supurb.

I also tried a box stock Hartford 92, it was fair without ammo but balked with dummy ammo. Steve knows all about this and can fix it.

Steve can also do work on SA Colts and other guns. He is a real gentleman and spent a lot of time showing me the tools he uses and how he does things. But the trick is knowing exactly what to do and where to do it. That is learned by doing, experience counts and he has the experience. Steve showed me how to take my Marlin appart and how it all works and what he had done to it.

Too bad the makers send out guns that don't work well with ammunition but they do. Fantastic that we have Steve to complete these 'do it yourself' kits, making them into supurb functioning guns.

[shooter2]

Many thanks for the information. My dealer says that a properly functioning Cimarron will be here Monday. Hope that's true. If not, I will look at these alternatives.

[shooter2]

Following up on this thread. I now have a Cimarron 92 that feeds properly. The dealer said that they did have some troubles, but (supposedly) are now cured. FWIW.

[KCSO]

This problem goes back farther than the clones. When the cool thing to do was to rechamber the original 92's to 357 and 44 mag the first of the feeding problems cropped up. I remember tweaking a 92 in 357 for a week to get it to feed 38's and 357's. The 92 was designed for bottleneck ctgs and pushing a 44 bullet into a 45 hole sort of eases the way. If you look at most of the clones in 45 colt you will see they have a little ramp into the chamber and the chambers themselves are loose. This works fine as long as the ctg stop on the lifter is just right, but if that ctg doesnt come off the lifter at just the right angle and at just the right place you have problems and as little as 1/16" inch will really mess you up. The good news in the whole situation is that you won't stick a 45 colt in your 44-40 any more and most of the 45 colts I have seen are close on in the bore and shoot very accuratly. The 44's sometimes run 431 in the bore and need a 432/3 bullet to shoot.

[shooter2]

This problem goes back farther than the clones. When the cool thing to do was to rechamber the original 92's to 357 and 44 mag the first of the feeding problems cropped up. I remember tweaking a 92 in 357 for a week to get it to feed 38's and 357's. The 92 was designed for bottleneck ctgs and pushing a 44 bullet into a 45 hole sort of eases the way. If you look at most of the clones in 45 colt you will see they have a little ramp into the chamber and the chambers themselves are loose. This works fine as long as the ctg stop on the lifter is just right, but if that ctg doesnt come off the lifter at just the right angle and at just the right place you have problems and as little as 1/16" inch will really mess you up. The good news in the whole situation is that you won't stick a 45 colt in your 44-40 any more and most of the 45 colts I have seen are close on in the bore and shoot very accuratly. The 44's sometimes run 431 in the bore and need a 432/3 bullet to shoot.


Good info, thanks.

[Swagerman]

Poohgyrr, how did you manage to get a 16" short barrel .44 special in a model 92 from EMF?

They don't list that caliber, but do offer the .44 magnum which can also chamber the .44 special.

These are nice looking rifles.

Jim

[Poohgyrr]

Swagerman,

Steve Young made it for me from a 20" short rifle in 44-40. He did a great job, and is great on the phone and email. It is smooth and slick. Shoots well, except for some loads it doesn't like.

EMF stopped importing the .44 magnums due to the overbore issue. Other brands still import them, and they seem to do fine with cast boolits properly sized, like Boomer posted above.

:drinks:

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5015/croppedm92444cb.jpg

[Old Ironsights]

Steve Young is da bomb. He made my .357 Bead Blast Stainless 20".

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/myrossi357.jpg

Sweet gun. Dropped a 130lb doe at 95+ yds, iron sights, with it this year.

Gotta use a different boolit tho. The hard-cast 180 at 1850+fps didn't expand at all. Needs to be softened a bit i think.

[lar45]

Old Ironsights, what a great lookin gun!
Could you post a pic of your rear sight? Is that a bolt mouted peep of some kind?

[Poohgyrr]

Yes, that is good looking. Between Old Ironsights and steveb, I am getting used to the idea of a stainless Lever. Never thought that would happen - but those pics of theirs look good.

And I still can't get over how well that 180 gr load seems to do. I know my 158 gr handloads have done well for me. More sounds better.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Looks like a WilliamsFP. You should have bead blasted it as well. A bead blasted alloy sight would blend in nicely.

[Old Ironsights]

Yep it's a Williams FP, with Merit Adjustable Aperature. It was D&T by Steve Young when he massaged the gun for me.

Bead Blast the alloy.... Hmmm.... Need to repaint the hash marks black I suppose... Hmmm.....

[Four Fingers of Death]

Very nice. I have a 44, bought it for cowboy, but don't like the sights. I have since bought a NIB 1894, so I am in a quandry as to what to do with the 92. I have more hunting rifles than I can poke a stick at.