Interesting Lee Enfield find. (with pics)

[Four Fingers of Death]

This is a No4, converted to 7.62 by the Lithgow Small Arms Factory in Australia. It was converted for range use I think, but does not appear to have been used. The previous owner bought it at a Goverment auction some years ago and fired 200 rounds through it recently. Then he made the mistake of treating his wife badly it would seem and he had to hand his guns in. I paid big dollars for it, but it is virtually new. He ground the battle sight off to make way for a Central Sight (Aussie target sight the mounting plate is on the left hand side, not visible in the pics, sorry). When I saw the ground down battle sight I got the trembles, I thought that I was picking up a No4T. Almost as good.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/f615d4b3-1.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/f615d4b3-2.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/8d443b5f.jpg

Should be a good un! Mick.

[Urny]

Very nice rifle, Mick! Can we see some pictures of the added sight mount when you get a chance? That rifle would be a prize in anyone's surplus rack, I think.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Nice looking rifle, Mick, looks well cared for. Lucky you got one with the ladder sight. Mine came with the two-range flip sight, so I had to add the ladder one. You could throw a cat through the battle sight apertures. I need the smaller aperture in the ladder sight to sharpen up the front sight for these old eyes. Looks like Australia is the happy hunting ground for excellent condition milsurps, or else you are having a great week!

[JeffinNZ]

NV: Still a lot of good Colonial mi surp to be found in NZ too if you 'dig' deep enough. BUCKETS of bubba too which is a pity. Still, the bubba rigs make for good bits to "rebuild" a mil surp. My friend Phil 'acquires' bubbas for just that and has Lee Enfield bits for Africa.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I filled up a battle peep for a friend who had a bubbered No4 which he had been hunting with for some 20years (on his second barrel in it). His eyes were fadng fast and I filled the peeps up with fiberglass and drilled smaller holes in them, then countersunk them so they wouldn't reflect sunlight and finished off by spraying with matt black paint. He's happy. He just touches up the paint every now and then. I tried to sell himon a low powered scope, but he feels these are just a passing fad. I have a 1.5x Weaver waiting to be fotted to a levergun, I might fit that up for him to try. Rough old gun, but don't get withing 150yards of him if your edible.

[RGRWJB]

Very nice gun.

[robertbank]

Isn't this one of the guns made in Vietnam and sold out of Australia? We have them coming in up here. imported into Canada by Marstar.

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-AIA/index.shtm

Take Care

Bob

[KCSO]

Mick

If you ever take the gun apart I would be most interested in seeing a photo of the bedding. I have had several target #4's and each had slightly different bedding. My first was an Elwood Epps job and my latest was done in S/A.

[robertbank]

What Mick has isn't one of the "old" #4's I don't think. Check out Marstar's ad. There are comments on the Reloaders Forum about this rifle.

Take Care

Bob

[Four Fingers of Death]

No, it is a No4 conversion, you can see it has the English Stirling magazine. On the other side of the action a new hole has been drilled for the ejector bolt and the Lithgow markings are visible.

The Viet ones have a teak stock.

[robertbank]

I stand corrected but the wood appears to be the same I must say.

Take Care

Bob

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yeah, they are a dark brown and have a lot of nice figure in the wood. They are as heavy as all get out too. The metalwork is a grey parkerized finish and the mag has a big latch and is like a cut off FNFal mag (sorta).

My mate has one in stock (or had one last time I looked), if he has I'll take a pic of the two side by side.

Mick.

[robertbank]

As a matter of interest what does the M4 sell for in Australia. I think Marstar wants $800Cdn which is a bit steep for a Vietnam gun of questionable quality. Hell that is steep enough for a good quality rifle. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Take Care

Bob

[KirbyAUS]

Mick,
does the bolthead display the Lithgow proof marks ?

I also had a Rifle No 4 converted on the Sterling pattern. It was a very reliable rifle. My understanding of the 7.62 conversions was that they were done by many NRAA armourers around Australia, but to be permitted for use on NRAA ranges, they had to be submitted to Lithgow for proofing. Hence the crossed flags on the bolthead.

Bob,
there is a lot of misinformation regarding the AIA M10 series rifles on the internet.

As I've posted previously on other forums, I own both a 7.62x39mm version and a 7.62x51mm model.
Both rifles are high quality. They don't display the finish of your typical Remchester etc. They are not meant to.

It has been reported that the 7.62x39mm models don't feed. From my personal experince with over 6 of this model in my location - all have fed reliably as long as the action on this type is worked as any military rifle should - that is with force.
That is as one can understand when such a rifle is used in battle.
On guy had a poorly finished ex AK47 magazine which had rough feed lips and was repaired to give reliable service.

My M10 in 7.62x51mm is very accurate with locally manufactured Winchester Palma Match ammo. I have used this rifle ( scoped ) with great success to 600 meters for our local "Sniper" matches. It is a true MOA rifle. A good friend of mine has this model also and his displays similar accuracy.

These rifles are compared to original service rifles which is somewhat peculiar.
The only other "Enfield Type" 7.62x51 rifle is the Indian RFI No2.
Some comment they are overpriced but you cannot compare this to a war surplus rifle sold for a couple of hundred dollars. They may be more expensive than common commercially manufactured rifles such as Rugers etc, but you must understand, the scale of manufacture of these M10 rilfes is on a very small scale.

I am in no way connected to the manufacturer, nor did I receive these rifles under cost etc.
I just resent ignorant comments from "Internet Experts" who bag a firearm without even seeing one in person let alone using one.

Again, I purchased these firearms for my personal pleasure.
Due to restrictive laws banning ownership of semi auto rifles in Australia since 1996, I required a rifle with a removable magazine and fast action for 3 gun matches. I also had many thousands of 7.62x39mm ammunition on hand with no rifle to use it in. The M10 A cal. 7.62x39 fit the bill perfectly.

Sorry for the long winded response and I certainly do not imply any sense of negativity by Bob regarding this subject.


Hope this has been of some help.

Respectfully,

Kirby.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The current M10s in 7.62 NATO are a fine rifle and considering the scale on which they are made sell in Australia for about $AU1100, although most seem to walk out the door for around $1000. It is my belief that they are an Australian owned marque and were initially intended to be produced at Lithgow Small Arms Factory (SAF). The australian company still markets them, they are made in Vietnam under supervision of the Aussie company.

The issue of poor feeding came from the eagerly awaited 5.56 version. I have been told that they had problems getting reliable feeding from these (as have guys who converted No4s and 5s to 5.56) and the project was eventually dropped. That was a shame as that would have been a nice rifle.

There is a new one out which looks like sin, has a chromed band around the abbreviated forend and is in 7.62Nato. It has a strange stepped barrel, real thich under the forend and stepped down as it is exposed. It has a new process chrome or something or other plated barrel and is exected to give enormous barrel life. I can't see them selling lots of them because they look a bit goofy, sort of like a jungle carbine with shiny bits. Good rifle apparently.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I am under the impression that the conversion was done at SAF Lithgow because my mate showed me an article in an old Aussie gun mag about the conversion and all of the marks, etc match up. I will get the photocopy of the article eventually (when dreamy mate posts it) and I will take some more pics. Mick.

[MtGun44]

Mick,

Very nice rifle, sorry hear about all your gun restrictions.

Since you're such a good photographer (butter him up!) could you
post pix of the bedding? I have a No4 and would like to know what
the correct bedding is like. Any discussion of the do's and don'ts would
be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill

[Four Fingers of Death]

Mick,

Very nice rifle, sorry hear about all your gun restrictions.

Since you're such a good photographer (butter him up!) could you
post pix of the bedding? I have a No4 and would like to know what
the correct bedding is like. Any discussion of the do's and don'ts would
be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill

My memories of correct No4 bedding is bedded against the wood in front of the chamber and then again at the knox form with upward pressure of 4lbs ( I think).

You can also improve accuracy by removing the slide from the singer sight, and removing the detent ball and spring. Drill the hole right through, tread the left hand side and fit the detent ball, followed by the spring, followed by a grub screw. Before reassembling, ensure the slide is a tight fit on the sight uprights by gently squeezing it it a vice (careful now) until it is a very snug fit on the uprights. Adjust the grub screw so there is some resistance when you turn the sight elevator screw. With this pressure the parts of the sight do not flop about under recoil and give consistent adjustment.

Good luck.

[KCSO]

Steve at 303british.com has a link to beeding instructions for the #4 and I have a set of instructions and specs from Elwood Epps that were written in about 1966 or so. Bedding was done differently by different gunsmiths, each with his own idea as to what was best, and I have photo's of several jobs that all differ in details, although the basics seem to be the same. The nicest one I ever saw was wiht the stock cut out and hardwood bedding bolcks installed. Tis was before Acraglass i assume. Part of my notes from Epps is the is the following," Tests have shown that the #4 is stong enough for the 308 so #4's converted will be allowed by the DCRA this year". It goes on to list what parts will be needed for conversion.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My bedding notes are the standard british armoury procedures from memory and the wood below the barrel reinforce only was bedded (all on wood).

[Four Fingers of Death]

Here are the pics you asked for of the left hand side of the action. The sight is a Central Sight, an Aussie made sight that has been used for target rifle shooting since around WW11 or thereabouts. I have a few really old ones with the coarse click adjustment and 303 graduations on the uprights, which have been converted for use with the 7.62.

You can see where the ejector screw has been relocated to work with the 7.62:
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/No4Lithgow7-1.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/No4Lithgow7-2.jpg

The paperwork should be though soon, I'm looking forward to shooting this one.
Mick.

[robertbank]

Are those sights regularily available in Australia. If so could you point me to a source. Very nice looking shooter. Have you been to the range with her yet?

Take Care

Bob

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yeah, they are available new, I have no idea what they cost. You can usually pick them up used for about $AU150, sometimes cheaper. You need a mounting plate as well. What rifle do you want to fit it to? They pop on and off in a second or two and work well. I could have a scrounge around if you like. Mick.