Pyrodex ?

[tomme boy]

Does Pyrodex go bad? I have Two bottles that I have had for about 7-8 years. I keep getting hangfires or not firing at all. This is on a TC New Englander using #11 caps.

[quilbilly]

As long as they were sealed in an airtight(!!!) container, both should be fine. In our wet climate, I found Pyrodex to pull water out of the air badly so you may have that problem.

[mooman76]

I have some twice as old as that and it still works good for me.

[NickSS]

Pyrodex is harder to ignight that black powder and i have had more hang fires and miss fires with that stuff than with black powder. One thing makes it work better in a new englander is using CCI magnum primer and a hot shot nipple then it works as well as black powder does,

[majg1234]

yep it can go bad absorbs mosture really well,check your caps,nipple and re clean the rifle .dry with a patch with isopropyl alcohol ...,fire off a couple of caps load'er up and try again,if all else fails new pyrodex or real BP should let you "make smoke"

[tomme boy]

Well, all we have around here for caps are the standard #11's. They were sealed with the factory foam spacer. They have been in my heated an cooled basement the whole time. I never had a problem with it before I stopped using this gun. Always worked perfect before. I think I am going to get a new bottle to try.

At least I will be able to make some fireworks with the old powder if the new works out.

[1874Sharps]

Back in the older days before I became a BP purist I shot Pyrodex. I had a can that sat for some time, although I do not recall just how many years it sat, but it did lose potentcy and it was noticable. Accuracy degraded, too. Though Pyrodex certainly is an innovative BP substitute product, it has its limitations and drawbacks.

[shotman]

I know 2 guys that put about 1/2 oz of herco in a 1lb bottle and they say it keeps that way .

[Maven]

"Does Pyrodex go bad? I have Two bottles that I have had for about 7-8 years. I keep getting hangfires or not firing at all. This is on a TC New Englander using #11 caps."

tomme boy, I don't know whether Pyrodex "goes bad" or not, but it can absorb moisture, which will result in hangfires and reduced potency. Btw, the #11 caps, if undamaged, will reliably ignite Pyrodex, as will #10's. However, you may need to remove the nipple and clean-out screw if present and remove all oil prior to firing the gun (ditto for the bore) as that WILL produce hangfires. If that doesn't work, you'll need to dry the powder. The easiest way is to pour it onto a cookie sheet or two (shallow depth is what you want) and leave it in the sun for several hours on a day with low humidity. Gently stir it with a non-sparking implement so that all moisture is removed.

[thunderthud]

First off, Shotman, you should never mix smokeless with bp or substitute anytime for any reason.I know some do it without incident but there is a first time for everything. Thats why the put the warnings that have to be stamped right on the gun barrels now fouling up the original look.
For the record, all bp is hygroscopic, ie. it attracts moisture. Why use pyrodex when you can use the real bp unless somehow you are unable to purchase it. The firearm must be cleaned anyway, it doesnt smell the same either. ugh! Perhaps a bit less fouling in Colts open top revolvers. As others also have said it has a higher flash point ie, harder to ignite. All in all, bp is the best, the original propellant to be use in ml firearms imho.

[frontier gander]

get your self a new nipple. With pyrodex i prefer the stainless steel spitfire nipple that cabelas sells. It uses a hollow base to really spread the flame around. I had a new cva mountain rifle that wouldnt fire at all! Switched out the nipple, no trouble after that.

[JIMinPHX]

Here in the Sonoran Desert, 10 year old Pyrodex works just fine.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Start at the basics of your hangfire or no fire problem before you sweat powder.

Are you sure the flash channel and nipple flashole are clear? Do the caps go off every time?

Make sure it is unloaded, clean it, pumping water through the flash channel from the barrel with a good jag and tight patch with the nipple out. Chip out any fouling you can see caked under the nipple seat or in the bolster threads or nipple seat or flashchannel to barrel. A stout needle or toothpick works well. Can you hear air being pumped out? Do the same with the nipple threads greased and nipple just snug when barrel, nipple, and bolster are clean. Oil well, then dry, use jag and patch again to make air pressure to force air through the flash hole ignition system.

If you have cleanliness, air hissing and a dry barrel, snap a cap with the muzzle close to dust, a leaf, etc. A # 11 or # 10 cap will have plenty of force for this in a rifle to make dust or leaves jump. If this is OK, load as normal, and fire. Bad pyrocrop won't ignite in a clean, dry caplock.

If you stop at snapping a cap or two and do not load a powder charge, re-oil. BECAUSE WHILE MOST CAPS ARE NON COPRROSIVE THE IGNITION BYPRODUCTS WILL ATTRACT MOISTURE AND ULTIMATELY CAUSE SIMPLE moisture CORROSION. I suggest regular wheel bearing grease for nipple/bolster threads (high temp/waterproof).

Afterwards, toss, or trade the pryoduck and get real BP. It may be a litter harder to find, but is likely cheaper, and will be much easier to clean properly, ignite well in a BP gun, and likely give better accuracy. That's what guns like yours were made for.

BvT

[tomme boy]

Barrel is very clean. I have replaced the nipple two times as that was what I thought was the problem. I can blow air with my mouth from the muzzle an feel air at the nipple. I know my old lady says I am a blow hard but..... Anyway, the channel is clean. I only clean with boiling water and soap. So oils is not a problem. You can shine a lite down the barrel and see the breach end. It is very shiny as no carbon build up. I have a carbon scraper for my cleaning rod for the breach plug. I can't get anything to show. So I don't think it is a carbon issue. This is why I think it is a powder issue.

Thanks for all of the tips though. It will help others that are having or will have to know what to do.

Hopefully within a quople of weeks I will be able to get some differant powder to try. I will post back.

[docone31]

Sometimes, it is burrs in the channel making obstructions to the flame channel.
Look for the burrs, or feathers. They will be mostly on the corners.
I had a rifle that was that way when I got it. Once I got the feathers off, it fired real well.

[mooman76]

get your self a new nipple. With pyrodex i prefer the stainless steel spitfire nipple that cabelas sells. It uses a hollow base to really spread the flame around. I had a new cva mountain rifle that wouldnt fire at all! Switched out the nipple, no trouble after that.

+1 on this one. I always use them if I can help it.

[Omnivore]

I've used Pyrodex and BP. Much more hangfires with Pyro.

There's no law that says you can't install a musket nipple and use the much more powerful musket caps though. I know a ML shooter who did just that and swears by it, but I'm getting good results with regular percussion caps, good loading practices and real BP.

I too have to wonder if you have something in your flash channel.

[tomme boy]

I would love to be able to se the musket caps. But, My hammer does not line up square with the musket cap. Already tried it. I would have to bend the hammer to make it work. I am just not too sure on bending it.

[mooman76]

They also make magnum caps that might help.

[JIMinPHX]

I keep hearing people say that Pyrodex is no good. I keep hearing people say that you should get magnum caps. I keep hearing people say that you should get an inline rifle & use 209 primers for hotter ignition.

The funny thing is that I've been using Pyrodex & plain old #11 CCI caps in cap & ball revolvers for years. I can't remember the last time that I had a powder charge fail to go off. I've been happy with my accuracy too.

[tomme boy]

Jim I have always used the pyro and have always been happy just like you. I also use the stardard #11 caps. This powder did not do this before I put the gun away. It started when I just tried to use it.

[mroliver77]

Black is not very available around here and is expensive when you find it. I bought 20 some lbs of Pyrodex at Wal Mart in an after season clearance for like $7 lb. I had planned on working up 38-55 and 45-70 loads with it but after reading on it here on this forum kinda got scared off. I do burn it in my front stuffers but it is less forgiving than BP as far as ignition goes.
Jay

[Maven]

"Black is not very available around here and is expensive when you find it." ---mroliver

All, Please try to remember that for many of us, Pyrodex (P or RS; i.e., loose powder) isn't the best choice, but often the only choice. Indeed, in my neck of the woods, NO ONE sells it or genuine BP. Pyro pellets, however, can be found at Gander Mtn. and perhaps Walmart too.

mroliver, Several years ago I made the decision to switch to BP exclusively, mostly because of the difficulty in removing all the chlorate salts from my bbl.'s after firing. However, I rarely had hangfires with Pyrodex and never found it to contribute to inaccuracy in either ML or CF rifles. Actually, it performed quite well in my .45-70 (Marlin #336, Microgroove). These days I import my BP and must pay extortionate Hazmat & shipping fees as a result.

[cajun shooter]

Jim, Your answer to your posting is on your stats sheet. It's your address. Move to where a person has moisture and humidity and your luck with Pyrodex may change. If you read any studies on Pyrodex you will find that it will clump when exposed after the seal is broken. It will also loose so much of it's potency as time goes by. This is going to be different in different weather locations. In Louisiana this past week we have had temps over 100 degrees with the humidity from 90 % up. I would never use any sub in any gun that I own. I prefer to shoot my 19th century guns with the powder that they were built for. All BP subs do only one thing that is different from smokeless powder loads and that is smoke. They can't duplicate real BP when it comes to the fire, flames, sparks and that special KA-BOOM!! Shooting all subs is a way to circumvent the written hunting laws of the states with BP seasons. The money guys at Hodgdon saw a way to sell more products and guns. If you live anywhere that has a road with a legal address then you may shoot the real Black Powder. This is my feelings on the subject matter and is not meant to belittle any person who is not informed on the laws of their state or Federal Government. I first shot BP in about 1971 with all C&B revolvers and MZ rifles. The rifles were the real kind with a ram rod and patch box. If you have never felt the real thing roar in your hands then add it to your bucket list. To the users of all powders I wish you well!!

[thunderthud]

jim , yeah in a perc. revolver the nipple is directly in back of the cylinder and the flame shoots in. In a perc. rifle the flame must take a dog leg and the drum or patent breech much be clear in able for the Pdex to occupy the drum or breech in order for the "powder" to ignite. If the humidity is high you may have trouble especially after the first shot. Get some real bp and get rid of the headaches.
just my $.02 after 45 yrs. of shooting bp firearms.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

For those whining about the poor performance of percussion caps, TEST ! Get a piece of 1/8" mild steel plate and drill and tap it CORRECTLY so you can install the test nipples snugly. Clamp the plate in your vice in a dark garage.

Install the caps on the nipples correctly. Get someone safely outfitted to modestly tap the cap with a tack hammer as if it were a sidelock hammer, position several items where the flask will occur to serve as reference points for distance of flame outpot and start tapping and observing. Stand off so YOU can see. You can even hand a rag on the output end of the cap as a trial muffler.

You will soon come to understand that most all ignition problems are either dirty, poorly cleaned guns, or ruined powder, and that likely synthetic. You just can't go around swag talking. The problem must be cut into parts to find the cause. The only ignition problems I ever ancountered an they have been a couple dozen, were either flash channel fouling due to poor cleaning or synthetic or wetted BP. Yes, I have tested as above.

BvT

[troy_mclure]

testing primers is easy. stuff a patch in your barrel, shoot the primer. itll blow the patch out if you have a clear path and good primers.

i wish i could get black powder, but am stuck with pyrodex as no one carries bp locally, and the 5lb law my state has makes it too expensive.

[Swede44mag]

Most of the problems I have had with ignition problems have been using too much solvent/patch lube when cleaning after every shot.
If you get a soggy or clogged nipple or vent even the HOLY BLACK will not go off. I have used Pyrodex for years and bought all I could afford while Wally World had it on sale.

I use Pyrodex on my Knight Inline, 777 on my TC Encore & the HOLY BLACK on my TC Flint lock.
I don't believe the Knight MK85 was made to withstand the extra pressure generated by 777 so I don't use it in it. I may be wrong and it wouldn’t be the first time.

When I run out of Pyrodex & 777 I will shoot the HOLY BLACK in everything it cost about the same it is easier to make it fire and cleans up better. IMHO

[cajun shooter]

Troy, You may do as the rest of us who live in Louisiana and wish to shoot the real BP. We use the buddy plan. In the three SASS clubs that I belong to we have several guys that get together and make a combined order. That way the Haz-Mat and shipping is spread between 5 shooters and makes it cheaper to purchase.

[Fly]

Guys that is why I make my own.Not because it is alot cheaper, but I will never run out.

Fly

[725]

+1 on Maven's comments and just about everything everybody else has to say. I use pyrodex for a summer camp for boys and girls where I shoot a few hundred rounds a week. Humid days seem to have dirtier guns that are hard to run. Dry days produce markedly better results. All from the same pound can! Tight powder storage and dry (clean) guns are a constant. Racked guns get a drenching in oil to prevent evil things and when put on the line they are torn down for a through cleaning prior to use. Some of these range guns have around 6,000 rounds + sent downrange and are working as good as the day they were new. I use triple seven in my hunters, but as a workhorse, Pyrodex has given good accurate service for me.