Gas checks and filler

[abunaitoo]

I just started experimenting with poly-fil filler. I'm still using a gas check.
Question is, since I'm using filler can I leave off the gas check?????

[Bass Ackward]

I just started experimenting with poly-fil filler. I'm still using a gas check.
Question is, since I'm using filler can I leave off the gas check?????

aby,

I tried to contact Professor Gun to ask him. His receptionist says that he is over at your place. Why don't you ask him? :grin:

From responses we get evertime this comes up, I say it's about 50/50.

[David R]

Try it and let us know how it works.

Thanks
David

[mag_01]

:coffee: ---Abunaitoo I don't think you where looking for a Wise answer -----I have done quite a few loads with fillers and they can act as gas checks. Some of my loads perform about the same as an example--7.62x54R-with 18 grs. of 2400 and gas checked 185gr. .312 gives me about the same result with 17grs. of 2400 and filler---No gas check----Be careful with loads using fillers--They raise pressure----But are useful in many applications. Hope this helps you----Mag

[looseprojectile]

Some published loading data will have filler included, as in small charges of fast burning pistol powder in larger capacity cartriges.
I usually try to select a powder that does not need a filler. However, I have tried fillers and see little merit in their use and have tried alternatives such as, grease cookies, card wads, bulkier powder and less velocity. Lower velocity loads can perform quite well without gas checks. A caliber specific question would be in order here. I am currently exploring Trail Boss powder in 40 65 Win. with a pb 300 gr boolit in a high wall repro. In my case I think I will have to settle for less velocity than I really wanted. If you can accept less velocity with good accuracy you are good to go with no gc or pb boolits.
Happy shooting

[44man]

The only reason to leave a gas check off is if your rate of twist will stabilize the boolit without the extra drive band the gas check provides. Some boolits will give bad accuracy or even tumble without the check. A lot of guys think they are not needed but this is something you must test for yourself with the boolit and gun you are shooting. Some will work just fine so do the work and report back.
Fillers can act like a check but will not replace the length needed in some bores.
I have never believed they are a "gas check" per say, but are a hard drive band to take the rifling at a higher velocity. The prime reason leading is lower because a plain base can skid and leave a slot for hot gases to enter if driven too fast.
OK, all the rest of you! Jump on me and tell me I am nuts!

[Lon]

Long ago, I ringed the chambers in a pre-64 Win Mod 70 and a Rem 700, both
30-06's. The ring was around the cartridge neck and looked like a wedding band in the brass. Both rifles still worked, but after a few firings with the same brass the cartridge tried to "lock" into the chamber ring and extraction became difficult. The ring in the Mod 70 was so slight it was not readily apparent with once-fired brass but I had the 700 rechambered.
I quit fillers and will no longer use them, though I understand concept, I don't trust me doing it.

[Leftoverdj]

"Fillers" is way too general. Could be anything from cork wads to dacron fluff. Lots of people here know more than me, but I got a workable rule. I don't use any of the fillers in anything that would make me cry to replace or rebarrel.

That's left me a fair amount of wiggle room and I've done some playing over the years. Cornmeal, grits, COW, and the like have shown definite benefits in straight walled cases. I can generally get a couple hundred fps accurate velocity from a plain base bullet, but I have to work the load up from scratch and it seems to work better in conventional rifling than in microgroove. I won't use any of that stuff in bottlenecked cases. Found a substantial amount caked behind the shoulder decades ago, and that cured me for life.

I've also messed with the fluff fillers. Got substantial accuracy improvement with loads that only filled a small part of the case with flake or stick powders. The amounts I was willing to use would not hold ball powders in place. Fluff does not seem to have any GC effect.

I'm still willing to listen, but any experiments are gonna be in expendable rifles.

[1Shirt]

I have come to believe that there is no need for fillers w/fast shotgun powders. I quit using fillers with these powders quite awhile ago. I do however use dac/poly fillers with slower burning rifle powders with min loads to hold the powder back on the primer. (3031/4064 etc.) Have never ringed anything but the wife many years ago at the wedding.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[abunaitoo]

Thanks to all. At least I have something to think about now.
I'm playing with loads for a M1 Garand. 180g Lee bullet. Started with H4895. Shot great and cycle was good.
I got about 8# of IMR 3031 cheap. I have used it with 150 jacketed bullets and it shoots great, but I'm into cast bullets now, so I've been trying different loads. I've noticed that with the lower loads, I sometimes get a slight hang fire. Could be the primers (cheap PMC LR), but I'm thinking powder away from the flash hole. Still as accurate as higher loads.
I read someplace that sometimes a poly filler can be used to keep the powder in back of the case to help with hang fire. So I tried it. Works great. Hang fire gone. As a plus group size got smaller. No sign of over pressure, but I know the pressure is different because the shells are landing in a different place.
I also read someplace that sometimes a filler will protect the base of the bullet enough, so that a gas check is not needed. Which is why I posted this question.
I'll give it a try this weekend and post what I find.
Is this fun or what!!!!!:-D