36% over charge on a progressive press

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I just had a 36% powder over charge on my Dillon RL550B. RCBS carbide dies .45 Long Colt Starline brass, Lyman 454190 sized 454" lubed with Alox over 6.5 grains of Bullseye. I had loaded about 200 rounds when one load looked like it had too much powder so I weighed it, 10.2 grains. I pulled the cartridge ahead of it and found a proper powder charge. So why not a double charge, or no powder charge. Either of those scenarios would be easier to explain. So I carefully went back to reloading.

What I think I discovered is the resized brass sometimes hits the edge of the die mouth and I have to guide it by hand. I duplicated hitting the case mouth on the edge of the re-sizer die several times and found a little too much powder in the case being charged. Levering 3-4 attempts to hand guide the brass into the re-sizer die allowed the powder bar to move a little which resulted in increasing the powder charge.

I've been reloading for 30 years and mostly shoot Bullseye, but normally load the .44 Special which doesn't hang up at the re sizer die. The 9mm and .45 ACP also guide into the re-sizer without a problem. I'm kind of new to high volume .45 Long Colt.

I think I might be on to something here, anybody have a similar experience?

[Echo]

Not me, but I don't reload the 45 LC.

[Southern Son]

I have never used Bullseye at all, but I have used my Dillon 550 now for more that 15 years and I have never had an over charge. If I have had any under charges, then they have been so minor that I could not notice them.

[geargnasher]

Try adjusting the drop linkage so it still goes full-travel but doesn't start to dump until the case on station one is 1/16" into the die, in other words, safely past the lip of the sizer.

Gear

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive reloaded on 550s for close to 20 years and have never double charged a case that wasnt my own fault. Bullseye just doesnt bridge over in that measure. My guess is you got distracted and didnt advance the press and charged it twice.

[smkummer]

Bottom line is it sure a good thing you caught it. I am sure that would have damage a Colt or clone. I just started loading 45 Colt on my Lee 1000 and I can't see the charge of Unique unlike 9mm or 45 acp so I am carefull that I don't get distracted. 38 special is the same and I have had squibs with unique and 700X, so a better powder so far is SR4756 for uniform flow.

[CATS]

Call Dillon, they will belp you to set up your press. Do what Gear said. Adj the cartridge spring #13926 so that the case is held all the way in, loosen the die in station one, run the case up into the die and then snug up the die with the case still up in the die. Do the same for each station so that there is less chance for a case hang up.

Anytime I have used a 550 I pull and dump the case in the powder station if there is a hang up. I also cycle and dump the next powder drop so that I know I will get a normal amount of powder in the next drop. This may or may not be needed, but I do it anyway. Again, call Dillon.

[sljacob]

I have had the same problem loading 45 lc and 44 mag on my 550. Gear and cat's posts make perferct sense. Loading with a Dillon is new to me and I have a few problems to work out yet.
thanks for posting guys

[frkelly74]

That is a lot of bullseye!

[para45lda]

What made you notice the powder? Maybe you did like a double stroke? I know I've had issues with my 550 but it was usually something I did ( mine needed the adjustment described above, the case didn't enter the die right and the powder actuated twice)

Not saying that's your case, just mine.

Wes

[Larry Gibson]

Try adjusting the drop linkage so it still goes full-travel but doesn't start to dump until the case on station one is 1/16" into the die, in other words, safely past the lip of the sizer.

Gear

This is probably the problem. However, you might want to check and see if the expander/powder funnel is the correct one for the .45 Colt.

Larry Gibson

[Calamity Jake]

Ive reloaded on 550s for close to 20 years and have never double charged a case that wasnt my own fault. Bullseye just doesnt bridge over in that measure. My guess is you got distracted and didnt advance the press and charged it twice.

I'm with Lloyd on this one, I too have loaded on a 550 for a
loooooong time and have never double charged a case in any caliber that was not my own fault.

Operator error, it happens, it's good that you caught it.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Gear, CATS, thanks for the advice. I want to add that the sizer die is set to neck re-size the cases. So the re-sizer die is screwed up higher meaning the case enters the die when the powder bar is already starting to move. In my experience Colts favor neck re-resized cases where Rugers only chamber full length re-sized cases. Neck re-sizing makes the cases last longer but they can be visually mistaken for .44-40 cartridges. All this makes Trail Boss look very appealing.

Para45; I noticed it when I placed the 454190 on the charged case. I am in the habit of visually inspecting the powder charge when I place the bullet on the case since I am looking there already.

Llyod; I was distracted by trying to adjust the little wire that is supposed to hold the case in place at station #1 for re-sizing. That little wire never seems to work well for me. But I didn't charge it twice, the powder was 10.2 grains when a double charge would have been 13 grains. I duplicated my theory and was able to get a grain or two over charge by intentionally hitting the mouth of the .45 case on the mouth of the RCBS carbide re-sizer die several times.

After loading 200 cases my mind began to wander onto how the School District was influencing the election of City Council members and I got mad about that. I was going to quit loading and should have, then I loaded a few more. Fortunately I am in the habit of boxing every 50 cartridges so the loaded cartridges are sort of are separated by lot. This AM I will be pulling 35 cartridges to be reloaded.

So I think I many be onto another theory why guns such as Colt .45's blow up.

[geargnasher]

Ahhh. That makes sense. I neck-size most of my .45 Colt as well, except for the Henry and Open Top, they have "correct" chambers that fit well with FL sized brass if done with a Hornady sizer die. The Lee and standard RCBS dies are just too small. I would suggest trying either a non-carbide sizer and some spray-on, dry case lube or just a different carbide sizer die that has more of a funnel to the entrance.

I load my .45 Colt on a Lee Pro1000 and don't have too much trouble with premature powder drops. The Autodisk measure is pretty foolproof, it won't dump a grain unless you mean it too, and it only takes about 1/4" of ram uptravel to cycle the bar.

Gear

[L1A1Rocker]

Verify that you are using the correct size locator button. A locator button that is too smal (or absent)l could allow this to happen.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

You know come to think of it, I was crushing about 2 % of the cases on the mouth at the re-sizing step. I have duplicated the same overcharge situation this morning with Unique, 2400 and Trail Boss. Thanks to you guys on Cast Boolits I have screwed the re-sizer die down so that it engages the case well before the case engages the powder funnel at stage two. The RCBS carbide die appears to be of the new design with an angled mouth, but the die is probably 10 to 15 years old. Going to switch to Unique for the .45 Long Colt as I believe this powder may be a little more forgiving than Bullseye. This is why I have loaded so much .44 Special over the past 30 years and not much the .45 Long Colt. Mr. Keith is proved right again.

[Bad Water Bill]

I also have OVERLOADED using a Dillon. When the case is moved from station 2 to #3, I am NOW watching to see the powder in the brass. OOPS what did I do wrong. A Dillon can NOT drop a double charge unless YOU do something wrong.

When YOU adjust the powder drop bar you increase or decrease the area inside of the bar. This will result in a drop of + or - .1 grain. there is no way that bar can suddenly open by itself to double the capacity. look at that bar and tell me how it can open by itself.

Now if you double stroke the handle that bar will pick up a charge AGAIN as it is designed to do each time it passes under the powder reservoir.

YOU did not move the brass as YOU were supposed to do.

Every time in the last 40+ years I found an overcharge in one of the 5 or 6 presses I have owned it was because I was wool gathering.

The next time this happens to you STOP immediately. Now think about what happened over the last 5 minutes to allow this mistake.

In this time of surplus LAWYERS you can be sure the mfgrs have produced an ALMOST foolproof piece of equipment. The problem is the fool pulling the handle has not changed since WE decided to reload.

It is easier to blame the Dillon, Herters, Lee etc than put the blame where it belongs.

Look in a mirror for your answer. :bigsmyl2:

[jmorris]

Its not the Bullseye, but operation. The cure is to only make complete strokes or clear the case at the powder drop station. Sounds like a pain but not only is it safe, its also free.

On the 1050 was built with a device that does not allow the operator to reverse in mid stroke.

[7of7]

"What I think I discovered is the resized brass sometimes hits the edge of the die mouth and I have to guide it by hand. I duplicated hitting the case mouth on the edge of the re-sizer die several times and found a little too much powder in the case being charged. Levering 3-4 attempts to hand guide the brass into the re-sizer die allowed the powder bar to move a little which resulted in increasing the powder charge."

Exactly, doing this near the top of the stroke, is what caused your overcharge. Make die adjustments to get the case going into the sizer die first, then the powder starts dropping.. and that will solve you problem.. Or you can always size the brass on a different press, and remove the size die on the Dillon.. I do that for all my bottle neck cases..

[Silver Jack Hammer]

You guys are great, thank you for helping me figure this out. Just the other day what I was observing defied logic, now I’m back in the saddle and on the right trail. Right on Jmorris, the Bullseye is not to blame here, it’s the height of the .45 Colt case on the Dillon during neck resizing with RCBS dies which hung up my operation of not making a complete stroke with the press handle as 7of7 says. The re-sizer die has been screwed down on station #1 and I’m not neck re-sizing any more. I love RCBS dies but I’m going to try a Hornady as per Geargnasher’s suggestion. The last time I reloaded .45 Colt this situation did not arise because I de-primed all my brass first, then cleaned the primer pockets, then loaded by starting at stage one priming only. Full length re-sizing enables my .45 Colt cartridges to load in my Ruger Blackhawk too, as well as my Colts, although I believe the Colt chambers will split some more of my brass. Not a bad trade off, brass is cheaper than Colt pistols to replace. I had started loading Bullseye in the .45 Colt because it works so well for me in the .44 Special and 45 ACP and because it’s cheap but I’m switching to Unique in the .45 Colt for several reasons. One, Unique has shown a lot of stability when measured through my Chrony in the .45 Colt. Two, with Unique there is more powder in the voluminous .45 Colt case. Max load of Unique as listed in Speer #14 is 9.5 grains and I’ll be loading just 8.7 grains which clocks at 859 fps through my Chrony. 6.3 gr of Bullseye clocks at 784 fps and Speer #14 lists a max load of 7.0 gr of Bullseye in the .45 Colt. Third, Skeeter Skelton used Unique in his .45 Colt and he, like the Good ‘Ol Boys at Speer have been shown to know what they are talking about. I have burned more Bullseye than any other power and have shot more .44 Special than any other caliber and have been very satisfied and shall continue to use Bullseye in the .44 Special because it is a proven combination. My experience with Bullseye in the .45 Colt is limited. The .45 Colt is a completely different animal and I need to approach it as such. I don’t neck re-size the .44 Special as there seems to be no need to. The .45 Colt for some reason needs to be seated and crimped in two different stages, where the .44 Special does not. This is no big deal in a Dillon but oddities none the less between the two cartridges which I note but do not fully understand.

[bhn22]

Also- When using flake powders in any powder measure, I first go through the familiar ritual of setting the measure, we're all familiar with it. Then I drop 10 charges in my scale pan. The first one is normally right on the mark. Then I drop 9 more in the same pan & weigh it. Often times the average weight on the 10 charges is more than the 10% of the 10 charges it should be. Because of the design of the Dillon powder measure, versus the design of the flake powder, the powder settles in the measure during use, and heavier than intended charges are the result. i've never had 36%, but depending on the powder, it can pick up 1/2 grain or so. After a few minutes of operating, everything settles down ,and I get consistent, albeit heavier powder charges than I originally intended. This does happen with my Hornady powder measure too, and is the main reason some measures have powder baffles. One way to deal with this is to unscrew the powder measure and shake it lightly for a few seconds to allow the powder to settle.

[quasi]

I am amazed that manual indexing progressive presses are still available in the U.S. I would think Lawyers would get rich suing their makers.

[Lloyd Smale]

youd have to ban auto progressives to as ive seen guys double charge on them too and ive even seen guys loading on a single stage double charge with a powder drop using a case block. Anyone can make one mistake and some even make a practice out of it no matter what there doing. Dillon has sold a slug of 550s through the years. Its probably there best selling press. Ive never heard of one law suit being filed against them over it. Id bet about 3/4s of the problems reported by people about them are bs posts buy guys with rcbs or hornady presses that are just trying to make there press look better or themselves seem intelegent. Walking out to the mail box is probably more dangerous then loading on a 550.

[jmorris]

Yep, you can double auto indexing ones too, with the exception of the 1050.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I witnessed a catastrophic failure of a new firearm with factory name brand ammo and experienced a factory round with no powder charge. I’m surprised they haven’t outlawed rocking chairs due to law suits from people falling over backwards with them. My situation was not a double charge and an automatic progressive press would have crushed many, many cases. Neither Dillon, RCBS nor Starline is to blame. I’m teaching the Boy Scouts on the .22 rifle to answer the question; isn’t that thing dangerous? The answer is yes. They are removing lead from our wheelweights, yet under my kitchen sink are far more dangerous chemicals. Maybe if Barack gets re-elected he’ll fix all this.