MikeS
07-09-2011, 04:39 AM
Hi All.
I have several SAECO moulds, at current count 7 of them. I have 3 two cavity, 3 four cavity, and one 8 cavity. While I know it's fairly common for mould makers to copy designs of other companies, I've noticed that SAECO seems to have lots of moulds that are copies of H&G moulds, right down to the mould number!
Both H&G & SAECO were originally located in CA (if they were near each other I don't know), and the design of their sprue plates (for the two cavity moulds at least) are also very similar to each other. Was this simply a case of SAECO copying H&G designs, or was there some form of cooperation going on between them? I could imagine the H&G moulds being the Rolls Royce of moulds, while the SAECO was the Lincoln, so somebody that really wanted a very good mould, but either couldn't afford their pricing, or the wait for an H&G, getting a SAECO mould. I have an old advertising flier from SAECO (when they were in Carpinteria CA) that says they're the 'Successor to the Cramer Bullet mould'.
When I got my first SAECO mould, it was an old two cavity #12 mould. At that time I had posted pictures of the mould, as the way it mounted to the handles was strange, with the screws going into the mould from the top, with the screw that held the left hand mould block to the handles also holding the sprue plate onto the mould. A few forum members even commented that they should go in from the bottom, but after seeing later SAECO moulds where they do go into the bottom, that mould was definately designed for the screws to go in from the top. Since that time, I've gotten 3 more moulds that are old, and like my #12 the blocks had no markings, and the sprue plate is where the mould number is. All of the older ones have written on the arm of the sprue plate "SAECO Custom Precision NO." stamped on with a single stamp (rolled on?) with the actual mould number being hand stamped. All of these older moulds also mount with the screws going in from the top, with the sprue plate screw also holding on the mould block. Does anyone know the aprox. age of these moulds? Two of the older ones came with Scovill handles that have 2 sets of holes for mould mounting, and have some really nice wood on them, that's finished in a real dark finish. Another of the mould handles (the ones I got originally with the #12 mould) are unmarked as to maker, but look very similar to the pictures I've seen of H&G mould handles, and totally different than the Scovill. And the one other set of SAECO handles I have look identical to the Scovill, but with much lighter colored wood, and no makers name on them, and only 1 set of mounting holes. Those handles came with moulds that were made by Redding, so are later I would imagine.
Most of the SAECO moulds that I got recently were really dirty! One of the moulds, a four cavity #130 was so dirty (with actual dirt, not only rust) that until I scrubbed the sprue plate you couldn't see any writing on it!, but all of them after cleaning, and soaking in evapo-rust to remove any rust on them (amazingly none of them had any rust in the actual cavities!) cleaned up really nicely, and cast beautiful boolits!
One last question I have is for anyone that has a fairly recent (Redding) production #68 mould. I have a latter #69 mould (a copy of the H&G #68 in plain base), and the grease grove in it is square bottomed, but kind of on the shallow side, while the older production #68 that I have (also a copy of the H&G #68, but in BB form) has a rounded grease grove just like the H&G, and it seems to hold about a grain of NRA 50/50 lube, while the #69 I have holds much less, so I'm wondering if the newer production #68 is rounded like mine, or if it too has the shallow square GG?
Of the moulds I have, 5 of them are direct copies of H&G designs (#12,#68, #69 (design is same, just different number), #130, and#265. The other 2 I don't think are copies of H&G designs (but I might be wrong), they are: #384, and #458.
Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to share some observations, and ask a few questions. Thanks for reading it all!
I have several SAECO moulds, at current count 7 of them. I have 3 two cavity, 3 four cavity, and one 8 cavity. While I know it's fairly common for mould makers to copy designs of other companies, I've noticed that SAECO seems to have lots of moulds that are copies of H&G moulds, right down to the mould number!
Both H&G & SAECO were originally located in CA (if they were near each other I don't know), and the design of their sprue plates (for the two cavity moulds at least) are also very similar to each other. Was this simply a case of SAECO copying H&G designs, or was there some form of cooperation going on between them? I could imagine the H&G moulds being the Rolls Royce of moulds, while the SAECO was the Lincoln, so somebody that really wanted a very good mould, but either couldn't afford their pricing, or the wait for an H&G, getting a SAECO mould. I have an old advertising flier from SAECO (when they were in Carpinteria CA) that says they're the 'Successor to the Cramer Bullet mould'.
When I got my first SAECO mould, it was an old two cavity #12 mould. At that time I had posted pictures of the mould, as the way it mounted to the handles was strange, with the screws going into the mould from the top, with the screw that held the left hand mould block to the handles also holding the sprue plate onto the mould. A few forum members even commented that they should go in from the bottom, but after seeing later SAECO moulds where they do go into the bottom, that mould was definately designed for the screws to go in from the top. Since that time, I've gotten 3 more moulds that are old, and like my #12 the blocks had no markings, and the sprue plate is where the mould number is. All of the older ones have written on the arm of the sprue plate "SAECO Custom Precision NO." stamped on with a single stamp (rolled on?) with the actual mould number being hand stamped. All of these older moulds also mount with the screws going in from the top, with the sprue plate screw also holding on the mould block. Does anyone know the aprox. age of these moulds? Two of the older ones came with Scovill handles that have 2 sets of holes for mould mounting, and have some really nice wood on them, that's finished in a real dark finish. Another of the mould handles (the ones I got originally with the #12 mould) are unmarked as to maker, but look very similar to the pictures I've seen of H&G mould handles, and totally different than the Scovill. And the one other set of SAECO handles I have look identical to the Scovill, but with much lighter colored wood, and no makers name on them, and only 1 set of mounting holes. Those handles came with moulds that were made by Redding, so are later I would imagine.
Most of the SAECO moulds that I got recently were really dirty! One of the moulds, a four cavity #130 was so dirty (with actual dirt, not only rust) that until I scrubbed the sprue plate you couldn't see any writing on it!, but all of them after cleaning, and soaking in evapo-rust to remove any rust on them (amazingly none of them had any rust in the actual cavities!) cleaned up really nicely, and cast beautiful boolits!
One last question I have is for anyone that has a fairly recent (Redding) production #68 mould. I have a latter #69 mould (a copy of the H&G #68 in plain base), and the grease grove in it is square bottomed, but kind of on the shallow side, while the older production #68 that I have (also a copy of the H&G #68, but in BB form) has a rounded grease grove just like the H&G, and it seems to hold about a grain of NRA 50/50 lube, while the #69 I have holds much less, so I'm wondering if the newer production #68 is rounded like mine, or if it too has the shallow square GG?
Of the moulds I have, 5 of them are direct copies of H&G designs (#12,#68, #69 (design is same, just different number), #130, and#265. The other 2 I don't think are copies of H&G designs (but I might be wrong), they are: #384, and #458.
Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to share some observations, and ask a few questions. Thanks for reading it all!