LEE FCD ring removal

[Gswain]

I have been trying and trying to find a definative answer on how to do this. Found a video on youtube of how someone removed a .44 FCD sizing ring, but just showed the steps leading up to it, and not the removal of the ring itself. I tried using a 38 SPL case to remove the ring on my 38 FCD, beat the tar out of the thing but the ring didn't budge, just bent up the web of the case. Anyone have personal experience with removing this? Think the next thing im gonna try is a bigger hammer. I'd rather fix it myself than buy a bunch of stuff to mickey mouse around it. :popcorn:

[Doby45]

Find you a deep well socket that just fits in from the top, then pound on that socket.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm no expert...and I've never tried it.

BUT, I recall reading somewhere that the carbide is real brittle
and to just use a center punch and hammer on the inside to crack/shatter
the carbide ring, then just remove the peices.

let us know how it turns out,
Jon

[Jim]

I have tried it. I ruined the die. Them rings don't give up so easy.

[KYCaster]

I can't help wondering why anyone would buy a Lee FCD and then remove the carbide ring. :confused: Doesn't that leave you with just a taper crimp die?

If you need just a taper crimp then there are better options. (I prefer the gentler angle of the RCBS taper crimp). If the problem is oversize or out of spec ammo then I think the best solution is to find the cause of the problem and correct it.

Gswain: Loading 38/357, I've found very few instances where a taper crimp is necessary. Usually the roll crimp included in the seating die is all that's needed. What is it you're trying to accomplish with the FCD?

Jerry

BTW....I can't help with removing the carbide ring. :roll:

[Gohon]

Doesn't that leave you with just a taper crimp die?

No.....it will still give the same crimp as before. All the carbide ring does is swage down the case after crimping so it is at factory specks. That's fine for the jacketed stuff but plays heck with over sized cast loads.

Gswain, I've removed the ring from my 45 Colt and 357 mag dies. It's very easy to do. Screw the die into your loading press as you normally do. Remove the innards to expose the ring at the bottom. Take a empty 44 case and drop it into the top of the die case mouth first. The rim on the shell will lay flat, covering almost all the upper part of the carbide ring. Get a punch that is about the size of the shell or a little smaller and place it on the rim of the shell and give it a couple whacks with a large hammer. The ring will pop right out. Not sure why you used a 38 special case as the rim is to small to put even pressure on the entire circumference of the entire ring. The 45 Colt ring popped out on the second hit of the hammer and the 357 mag too three hits.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I have a post about that somewhere in here. I took a regular nut driver that would fit inside the die, but would not go through the carbide ring. I then held the die in my fist and hit the driver with a hammer........ out it came. No problem at all. Even a caveman can do it!

[dragonrider]

Remove the innards find someithing solid to use a punch that is bigger than the I.D. of the ring. Place the die in a single stage type "O" press as deep as possible and lock it tight with the ring. Using a torch heat the area of the die containing the ring does not have to be real hot just hot enough that you can't keep a finger on it, the heat will release the locktite that the ring is held in with as well as expand the die and then tap on the punch ring should come out easily. I used this method and it worked well.

[KYCaster]

No.....it will still give the same crimp as before. All the carbide ring does is swage down the case after crimping so it is at factory specks. That's fine for the jacketed stuff but plays heck with over sized cast loads.



OK....taper crimp, roll crimp, factory crimp? Whatever. You're still paying for a specialty die then altering it to a crimp die configuration....a crimp die that's already included in almost every die set. I still don't get it.

Jerry

[Frozone]

....... All the carbide ring does is swage down the case after crimping so it is at factory specks. That's fine for the jacketed stuff but plays heck with over sized cast loads.

IF it swaged it at all, it's going IN, not on the way out.
If it does anything coming out you screwed up the crimp ,it's not the dies fault.

You guys really have no idea how that thing works do you?

[bhn22]

it will size going in and coming out. Sometimes you'll get a little bulge in the case below the crimp. That's removed when the loaded cartridge is withdrawn. Your bullets are squashed going in.

There, do I pass?

[KYCaster]

IF it swaged it at all, it's going IN, not on the way out.
If it does anything coming out you screwed up the crimp ,it's not the dies fault.

You guys really have no idea how that thing works do you?



I have to admit that I've never owned or used a Lee FCD, but I do think I understand the concept...I just don't think there's a need for it.

I've loaded a few revolver cartridges and so far I've not encountered a problem I couldn't solve without resorting to a FCD.

I notice Gswain hasn't been back to comment. I hope he's not too PO'd because of the thread hijack; if so I apologize.

Jerry

[Gswain]

No, certainly not PO'd about it, takes quite a bit more than that to get me hot under the collar! I appreciate the input from everyone in this thread so far, its been great.

@ KYcaster, reason I am thinking about it is I have the FCD, and don't really want to buy another crimp die. I am unsure if the FCD without the sizing ring crimps the same as other crimp dies do.

@ GOHAN, I don't think a 44 special case would work for my 357/38 dies, the 38 brass I used seemed to fit properly.

So as of right now, im standing at probably trying a bigger hammer / vise combo, and possibly the socket trick if it fits properly. I don't think the centerpunch will work because the carbide is in compression and not tension, but ill give that a shot too.

[Doby45]

OK....taper crimp, roll crimp, factory crimp? Whatever. You're still paying for a specialty die then altering it to a crimp die configuration....a crimp die that's already included in almost every die set. I still don't get it.

Jerry

Let me see if this makes more sense as to why someone would do this.

My die set came with a FCD. I noticed that the FCD was swaging down my .402 boolits. I did not want to purchase ANOTHER die to taper crimp my rounds with because I like to seat and crimp in separate steps. therefore, I simply knocked the carbine sizing ring out of the FCD and use it as a traditional taper crimp die and use my seating/crimp die for seating only. Does that make it make a little more sense?

For the record, I also put my carbide ring back in the FCD when I want to use it as a push through bulge buster for my 40cal brass.

[Gswain]

Let me see if this makes more sense as to why someone would do this.

My die set came with a FCD. I noticed that the FCD was swaging down my .402 boolits. I did not want to purchase ANOTHER die to taper crimp my rounds with because I like to seat and crimp in separate steps. therefore, I simply knocked the carbine sizing ring out of the FCD and use it as a traditional taper crimp die and use my seating/crimp die for seating only. Does that make it make a little more sense?

For the record, I also put my carbide ring back in the FCD when I want to use it as a push through bulge buster for my 40cal brass.

That about hits the nail on the head. Im impressed that you are able to put yours back in and take it out, hopefully mine will be that easy!

[geargnasher]

I've defanged several. The key is to get a socket that fits like has been described above, pack a wet plug of paper towel in the carbide ring,then warm up the die body with a propane torch while hammering on the socket. It takes a LOT of force to get it out. Consider a 2-lb hammer and don't tap on it, HIT it like you mean it. Hit your finger first so you'll be in the right frame of mind the minute you get the die warmed up! :kidding: One hard blow should get it moving, but once the heat transfers to the ring it will swell up and defeat the purpose of heating in the first place. You have to time it right and not mess around. Also, support the die by the threads in a nut or in another socket. The last one I did I just pressed out. I threaded the die into a 7/8x14tpi nut, supported it in a fixture, and pressed the ring out with a deepwell socket. It shattered the instant it cleared the bottom, the ring is very brittle.

Gear

[Doby45]

Yhea, I pop the ring in the freezer for about 15min and then I just tap it right back into the die, very nice press fitting.

[theperfessor]

Could you put the die in the press upside down and use the press for leverage to push out the ring?

[BulletFactory]

I doubt it, those things are really stuck.

I used a center punch, and tapped it out, alternating sides, 90* at a time. You gotta give it a pretty good whack. I supported the die with a socket. The ring broke into a couple pieces, didnt hurt the die at all.

[Doby45]

I doubt it. It took a solid lick with a sizable framing hammer for me to knock mine out the first time.

[Gswain]

No, I don't think there would be nearly enough shock load there to push the ring out gradually.

GEAR, funny you should say that about hitting my hand or thumb, thats usually part of my routine when Im trying to break something loose, though usually its my thumb knuckle where it meets my hand.

[JIMinPHX]

Maybe Lee makes different varieties, but the FCDs that I've seen in the past were single step processes. All the FCD did was the final crimp. The taper crimp was in a separate seating die. In that die set, if you didn't want the FCD, you just omitted the final step. I guess that you must have something different. I haven't used a FCD in a long time.

[Gohon]

Gswain, without paying close attention I was thinking you had a 44 caliber die.

Frozone, I'm well aware how the die works. Going in about all I feel is the flare being straightened out. Coming out there are at times a slight bump as the crimp area is swaged down and my crimps are not screwed up.

KYCaster, since I prefer to seat and crimp in two separate steps, I don't like getting my seating die all set up then having to mess with the settings just to crimp. So it's either buy a separate seating/crimp die and gut the thing or just get a FCD which gives a good crimp. Once the FCD is set it doesn't matter what depth you seat the bullet with the seating die.

[thegreatdane]

I still don't understand this fit with the FCD. Mine has never swaged my boolits. I really like it too.

[BulletFactory]

What caliber?

Mine swaged the .40s down from .402 to .399

[legi0n]

I took one out of a .357 FCD
In my case, the steel body is crimped around the ring.
First I drove the carbide ring in 0.1" or maybe less but enough to take the crimp out with a drill.
Then the ring came out easy.

[thegreatdane]

What caliber?

Mine swaged the .40s down from .402 to .399

I've had great luck with it in 45, 9mm, 38/357. The only one I don't use is 10mm.

[MikeS]

Have you thought about replacing the die body, rather than removing the carbide ring? If you pickup a Lee expander die in the same caliber as the FCD, you can simply take out the crimper from the FCD, and the expander from the expander die, put the crimper into the expander die body, and then you have the same thing as if you removed the carbide ring, BUT you haven't done anything that's no reversible. By doing it this way, you can also get Lee's Bulge buster kit, and install it on the FCD body, then you have 2 fullly functional dies, one for crimping, and one for removing bulges from cases. I have a set of Lee 45ACP dies, as well as the FCD in 45ACP, and as I always use a Lyman M die for expanding, I did this swap, and find that the crimper now works great, only crimping without sizing the case. And if I get some cases that are bulged at the base, I can still use the FCD body with their bulge buster kit to size the empty cases without any chance of sizing down a boolit like could happen if I ran fully loaded rounds thru the BB kit. Just a thought, and I'm pretty sure you can buy just the expander body from Lee as a replacement part, which would be cheaper (I think) than getting the whole expander die, and you don't have the wasted expander plug (which you don't need) lying around. I have 2 sets of 45ACP dies, a Lyman set, and a Lee set, I keep the Lyman set for reloading 45ACP, and have set the Lee boolit seater to put a nice roll crimp on the cases, as I also load 45AR (auto rim). Supposedly (according to Lee) their carbide sizing dies don't leave a bulge at the base of the case as others supposedly do, but so far I can't really tell the difference between a case resized in the Lee sizer, or the Lyman sizer, so I use which ever one is handy.

[geargnasher]

I've had great luck with it in 45, 9mm, 38/357. The only one I don't use is 10mm.

I have several that came the same ring in them that's used for sizing, identical dimensions. I talked to Lee about it and they assured me the FCD post-sizer rings are larger. They offered to swap out my defective ones, but I had already solved the problem. They wreaked havoc on my boolits until I neutered them. Others don't seem to have problems. The problem with getting to the bottom of it is very few people quantify their results when they say " I have no problem with the FCD swaging my boolits." Well, what was your case neck thickness? What was your boolit diameter before seating? Sometimes I'm not sure they're not talking rifle calibers with the OTHER kind of FCD, which is excellent?

Gear

[izzyjoe]

well i guess i'm confused, are the FCD's for pistols different than rifle die? all the FCD i have are for rifles. and i use the seating/roll crimp die for 38/357 & 44, which seems to work fine. but i've often wondered about roll crimp vs taper.

[KYCaster]

Have you thought about replacing the die body, rather than removing the carbide ring? If you pickup a Lee expander die in the same caliber as the FCD, you can simply take out the crimper from the FCD, and the expander from the expander die, put the crimper into the expander die body, and then you have the same thing as if you removed the carbide ring, BUT you haven't done anything that's no reversible. By doing it this way, you can also get Lee's Bulge buster kit, and install it on the FCD body, then you have 2 fullly functional dies, one for crimping, and one for removing bulges from cases. I have a set of Lee 45ACP dies, as well as the FCD in 45ACP, and as I always use a Lyman M die for expanding, I did this swap, and find that the crimper now works great, only crimping without sizing the case. And if I get some cases that are bulged at the base, I can still use the FCD body with their bulge buster kit to size the empty cases without any chance of sizing down a boolit like could happen if I ran fully loaded rounds thru the BB kit. Just a thought, and I'm pretty sure you can buy just the expander body from Lee as a replacement part, which would be cheaper (I think) than getting the whole expander die, and you don't have the wasted expander plug (which you don't need) lying around. I have 2 sets of 45ACP dies, a Lyman set, and a Lee set, I keep the Lyman set for reloading 45ACP, and have set the Lee boolit seater to put a nice roll crimp on the cases, as I also load 45AR (auto rim). Supposedly (according to Lee) their carbide sizing dies don't leave a bulge at the base of the case as others supposedly do, but so far I can't really tell the difference between a case resized in the Lee sizer, or the Lyman sizer, so I use which ever one is handy.




Now there's a post that makes a lot of sense. :drinks:

Jerry

[KYCaster]

well i guess i'm confused, are the FCD's for pistols different than rifle die? all the FCD i have are for rifles. and i use the seating/roll crimp die for 38/357 & 44, which seems to work fine. but i've often wondered about roll crimp vs taper.


Yes, completely different. The rifle FCD has a collet that squeezes just the mouth of the case. The pistol FCD has a carbide ring at the base, exactly like a carbide sizing die, but also includes a crimp feature so the entire length of the case is reduced in size by the carbide ring at the same time that the crimp is applied.

The seating/roll crimp dies work fine for straight wall revolver cartridges when the bullet has a crimp groove or cannelure. If your OAL requires a crimp at a different location than the crimp groove or if you're using a boolit designed for a semi-auto cartridge which typically doesn't have a crimp groove, then a proper roll crimp becomes MUCH more difficult. In that case a taper crimp is probably a better option.

If you try to apply a roll crimp to a boolit that doesn't have a crimp groove the mouth of the case will be squeezed into the boolit while the press ram is still moving and pushing the boolit deeper into the case. This usually results in a bulge in the case just below the crimp and/or a ring of lead shaved off the boolit by the case mouth. Attempting to seat a boolit without a crimp groove and taper crimp in the same station will always result in a ring of lead on the case mouth. That ring of lead will generally be deposited in the chamber upon firing. That's why many people prefer to seat and crimp in different stations.

Jerry

[izzyjoe]

thanks, now i see where this is coming from. and that don't sound like a good thing. RD was talking about making a FCD without the ring, and now i understand. thanks

[Frozone]

Yes, completely different. The rifle FCD has a collet that squeezes just the mouth of the case. The pistol FCD has a carbide ring at the base, exactly like a carbide sizing die,...... so the entire length of the case is reduced in size by the carbide ring at the same time that the crimp is applied........

This is incorrect. As long as you resized the case before loading and didn't over flair when expanding the mouth, the case will never touch the ring.

I'm going to guess that most of you who claim the die swages boolits, is actually caused by the insertion into a under sized case mouth. Have you ever pulled an uncrimped boolit and checked BEFORE blaming the die?


<edit>
What I really enjoy, is when you pin down ~75% of the LEE FCD nay sayers; They throw their nose up and say "Well,l I've never really used it, I only use Reading (or Lyman or RCBS) dies".
</edit>

[Frozone]

I have several that came the same ring in them that's used for sizing, identical dimensions. I talked to Lee about it and they assured me the FCD post-sizer rings are larger. They offered to swap out my defective ones, but I had already solved the problem.

Cheap Labor grabbing from/stocking to the wrong parts bin. It would only take one mistake by a stocker to dump 100s (if not 1000s) of the wrong size carbides into the wrong bin to make a difficult to fix problem. But that is a QC issue Not a function of the die.

I guessing that such things happen all to often at LEE.
The first thing that suffers with low price are labor costs - that often is QC first.

[bhn22]

I did find a practical use for LEEs FCD. Remove the crimper parts, and use the die body as a maximum diameter case sizer. I've heard some guys complain about sizing dies being too tight and distorting their cast bullets. This may be a solution.

[Gswain]

This is incorrect. As long as you resized the case before loading and didn't over flair when expanding the mouth, the case will never touch the ring.

I'm going to guess that most of you who claim the die swages boolits, is actually caused by the insertion into a under sized case mouth. Have you ever pulled an uncrimped boolit and checked BEFORE blaming the die?


<edit>
What I really enjoy, is when you pin down ~75% of the LEE FCD nay sayers; They throw their nose up and say "Well,l I've never really used it, I only use Reading (or Lyman or RCBS) dies".
</edit>

Frozone, I full length resize my cases and my FCD will still swage the bullet down slightly. The reason for this is that lead cast boolits are typically larger in diameter by a couple thou than a jacketed bullet is, at least if you are casting the correct size boolits for your barrel. For example, say a jacketed 357 bullet is .356 in diameter, a common measurement. If I cast for my 357, i size to .358, as that is what my throats and bore slug at. Now take in to consideration that most people the FCD is built for are shooting jacketed. The purpose of the FCD ring is to catch any bulges or slightly large cases, and swage them down to within SAAMI spec. These are designed primarily for jacketed shooters, because I believe more people shoot jacketed than cast. now you take in to account thickness of brass, and keep in mind that there will be variance in case mouths from brand to brand and even lot to lot. Where this becomes a problem, is by boolit, being 2 thousandths larger in diameter than a jacketed bullet, plus the occasional piece of brass with thicker than normal walls, equals FCD ring is going to swage my boolit undersized, and give me leading from an improper boolit - bore fit.

[Frozone]

Frozone, I full length resize my cases and my FCD will still swage the bullet down slightly. The reason for this is that lead cast boolits are typically larger in diameter by a couple thou than a jacketed bullet is, at least if you are casting the correct size boolits for your barrel. ....

Thank you for the lesson. But.....

I use a LEE FCD to crimp my 454 Cassul (45 colt too.)loads. They are loaded with a .455.5" diameter boolit, spec is .452" . And guess what they aren't swaged down at all!! Neither are the .358" 9mm I load, or the .402 S&W 40s.

Maybe I should give you lessons in how to do it.

< edit>
What you will find is that the case expander is undersized for a cast boolit. Straight wall cases will harden, Brass IS harder than lead you know.
</edit>

[Gswain]

If you are capable of giving me a lesson that actually alters the laws of physics, that must be quite the lesson! MY FCD swages some of MY cast boolits, so I intend to remove it.

[Heavy lead]

I have 4 Lee FC dies, the .44 will swage down boolits, so the ring is gone, now that that is gone, it is a great crimp die. I have two .45 Colt, one for .45 Colt, the other is used on .454, the carbide ring does not touch the case, or just touches it no issues what so ever, and I size these to .454 too. I'm sure this is because the .45 Colt is not a straight case, it is tapered, so the carbide ring is mighty big.
The .45acp does in fact touch, and size the case, however I find that if I size to .454 run them through the die, pulled boolits show they are at .452, which is what I want anyway, so no issues.

[Frozone]

.... I'm sure this is because the .45 Colt is not a straight case, it is tapered, so the carbide ring is mighty big.
The .45acp does in fact touch, and size the case, however I find that if I size to .454 run them through the die, pulled boolits show they are at .452, which is what I want anyway, so no issues.

Well, I hate to tell you this, but you have it backwards.
The 45 colt (and the 454) is a straight walled case, as is the 44, while the 45 ACP is tapered. So your logic is flawed.

<edit> I'm curious, what do pulled .454" 45 ACP boolits measure after a trip though the seating die but BEFORE the crimp die? </edit>

[KYCaster]

This is incorrect. As long as you resized the case before loading and didn't over flair when expanding the mouth, the case will never touch the ring.

I'm going to guess that most of you who claim the die swages boolits, is actually caused by the insertion into a under sized case mouth. Have you ever pulled an uncrimped boolit and checked BEFORE blaming the die?


<edit>
What I really enjoy, is when you pin down ~75% of the LEE FCD nay sayers; They throw their nose up and say "Well,l I've never really used it, I only use Reading (or Lyman or RCBS) dies".
</edit>



Now I'm really confused. If, "This isn't correct", then what, exactly is the purpose of the carbide ring that so many people want to get rid of? If it doesn't do anything then why get rid of it? Better yet, if it doesn't do anything why put it there?

I copied this from Lee's website and pasted it here:

"A carbide sizer sizes the cartridge while it is being crimped so every round will positvely chamber freely with factory like dependability. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. It is impossible to buckle the case as with a conventional bullet seating die. Trim length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered.

Revolver dies roll crimp with no limit as to the amount. A perfect taper crimp is applied to auto-loader rounds. The crimper cannot be misadjusted to make a case mouth too small to properly head-space. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition. It eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders."

It sounds like Lee doesn't agree with you...."A carbide sizer sizes the cartridge...". If they didn't want it to size the cartridge they wouldn't have put it there.

My point is.......the crimp is, generally, the last operation in the loading process and when I get to this point the dimensions of the cartridge should be exactly what my gun needs to perform at its best. The last thing I want to do is change the dimensions to some arbitrary minimum standard designed to work in somebody else's gun.

As far as brand preference goes, Lee dies outnumber the other brands I have, with RCBS a close second and Lyman, Hornady and Dillon bringing up the rear.

I haven't noticed any difference in the roll crimps among the various brands, but I do prefer the RCBS taper crimp over Lee and Dillon.

Several people say they need a second crimp die available to seat and crimp in separate operations as the reason they want to alter the FCD. I suppose if you've already ponied up the money and want to salvage something from it, that's fine, but if you plan to buy a die for that specific purpose, there are more economical options (that don't require altering a die) to accomplish the same thing.

I guess I have to admit that at this point my arguments come real close to trolling, but I can't help it. The deeper I get into this discussion, the more...ummm...CREATIVE the pro FCD arguments become. The die description I copied from Lee's site is, at the very least, nothing more than misleading advertising hype.

Can anyone describe a problem or situation that can be corrected with the pistol FCD that can't be done better with another option? :popcorn:

Jerry

[Frozone]

It sounds like Lee doesn't agree with you...."A carbide sizer sizes the cartridge...". If they didn't want it to size the cartridge they wouldn't have put it there.
.........

Can anyone describe a problem or situation that can be corrected with the pistol FCD that can't be done better with another option?



I'll answer your last question first. I have a 454 that has large throats, but on Spec chambers. I could use a .456 (or bigger) boolit for the throat size but I can't get a boolit that big to chamber. If I run the FCD and feel it hit the ring on the way out, I know that round isn't going in without a hammer. It only does it 1 out of a few 100 and I find that brass wall thickness or boolit size or seating depth variations are the cause.

If the finished cartridge is larger than chamber diameter, then the die is supposed to size it down to fit, I suppose the idea being it's better to swage things down than to make ammo that won't chamber.

I found far more swaging down caused by an undersized case neck than any FCD.

[geargnasher]

I'm failing to understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

The FCD for straight-walled, autopistol cartridges (.45acp, .40/10mm, 9mm, .38 Super, .380, .45 GAP, etc.) is meant as a "NO GO" gauge for JACKETED BULLETS. Jacketed bullets are usually, what? SMALLER than our cast boolits. The FCD is a final-size die that will iron out dents or burrs that the sizer die didn't. It will also take care of any flare left on short cases that didn't get ironed by the crimp die. Is it a good solution even for jacketed? I don't think so, but it IS a way of catching defects if you load massive quantities of ammo on a Loadmaster and don't pay any attention to the brass you're putting through it. I call it "stupid-proofing" the ammo.

Now, when you add the diameter of cast boolits, seat them in the case, the loaded case will be BIGGER than the minimum spec most likely. The FCD will swage case and boolit to the pre-determined minimum, and it squishes the boolit down undersized as well. You might end up with a .451" .45 ACP boolit after the FCD is through with it. Then you get leading and wonder why, since you started with a .452" boolit. This has been proven recently by a member who did some detailed tests of before-and-after boolit swaging by his FCD.

Sometimes this isn't a problem, sometimes it is. If it isn't causing a problem, leave it alone. If it is, remove it.

Gear

[Frozone]

The FCD for straight-walled, autopistol cartridges (.45acp, .40/10mm, 9mm, .38 Super, .380, .45 GAP, etc.) is meant as a "NO GO" gauge for JACKETED BULLETS.

No, it's a No Go gauge for the chamber - bullet type is irrelevant. It only checks that the round produced will fit the chamber.
If a cartridge loaded with a jacketed bullet was over sized so it wouldn't fit the chamber, it would swage it too.

[blackthorn]

Frozone said: "No, it's a No Go gauge for the chamber - bullet type is irrelevant. It only checks that the round produced will fit the chamber.
If a cartridge loaded with a jacketed bullet was over sized so it wouldn't fit the chamber, it would swage it too."

Now, right there is the light switch so lets turn it on! The FCD die is designed so that it WILL size down any round that is larger than the accepted (SAMMI?) specifications! Works great for jacketed rounds---for cast?---not so much! SO---if we have a gun (chamber) that requires a larger than industry acceptable spec bullet and we cast one and load it up, running the round through the FCD sizes it back to "specification" AND that includes the carefully cast bullet, so that it is now too small for our purpose.

[Heavy lead]

Well, I hate to tell you this, but you have it backwards.
The 45 colt (and the 454) is a straight walled case, as is the 44, while the 45 ACP is tapered. So your logic is flawed.

<edit> I'm curious, what do pulled .454" 45 ACP boolits measure after a trip though the seating die but BEFORE the crimp die? </edit>

After doing some research you are right, the .45 Colt and the .454 are straight wall cases, however they are not straight wall chamber, neither.
Also the .454 Casull is .4775 rather than the Colt's .480.
The .44 die was troublesome, the .45 dies on either the Colt or the .454 is no trouble, obviously not in the .454 which is a smaller case than the .45 per SAAMI specs.
Regardless, I like the crimp they provide, whether the ring needs to be removed or not. And in the case of either .45, the lower ring doesn't do more than touch the case.
Also the fact that the .45 ACP is tapered or not is flawed, it is true, it's specifications indicate that, but the way it is handloaded is not. Using the carbide sizers we do, we effectively make it a straight case, in a tapered chamber exactly like the .45 rimmed cartridges, unless someone is using steel die and lubing cases, that's the way it will be.
Are you using a .45 Colt crimp die for the .454?

[Bula]

I remember seeing a website where the guy just cut the die body right above the carbide ring. Me, I used an inverted chisel (handle wrapped in tape to protect inside die threads) I set the die into a large deep well socket with the die ring preventing the die from bottoming out. A few whacks with a good sized hammer, and out it pops, one did shatter to bits.

Not sure why some are getting bothered by this, if the carbide ring poses no problems for YOU, then ignore this thread, it doesn't apply to you.

[thegreatdane]

No one is bothered, we're just discussing.

to clarify, on Winchester brass, i do get a little swaging in .45 acp. They go from .452 to .4515ish, but that's all. the rest work great.