45 colt dies - Problems

[JTknives]

Well it seams like i have been fighting with all my 45 colt dies. my first set was a used lyman set of 45 colt dies and thy worked but i started to notice a problem. the case flare would be uneven and the crimp would be uneven as well. so then i got a redding set which is also carbide for around $75 bucks. I though thy where expensive but if thy where the best then cost did not mater. well i have been fiddling with the redding die set and the flare and crimp are even but it was doing something weird. right at the mouth of the brass where it was rolled over there would be a sharp edge like a sharp edge was on the crimp section of the die. this would leave a bur all the way around the brass right at the edge. looking closer the mouth of the brass looked kinda smashed and then like it was pushed into a hole smaller then the size of the brass and this hole had a sharp edge which would cut the brass. so i dug out the redding instructions i got with the dies and thy said to seat the seating/crimp die all the way to the shell holder. so i did and i crimped a boolit, the weirdness was still there but the crimp was much longer. it was rolled and there was a short straight section. I dug out my box of buffalo bore 45 colt ammo and looked at there crimp and it was the same except there's had a longer straight section. so i dug out my lyman crimp dye and looked inside and to my dismay it was packed with lube and lead bits. i cleaned it out and crimped a case to the extent like buffalo bores ammo and the crimp looked much better then the reddings crimp. the redding crimp, when crimped as much as a buffalo bore case would shave a little ring of brass off and it would be around the case. the lyman is nice and smooth. so my question is this. am i doing this right and if so why is the redding so crappy. I was just about to order a hornady die set when i noticed how packed the lyman die was. once cleaned it worked great. so right now im using the redding die set for everything but the crimping. im using the lyman die for just crimping. So i'm wondering is it normal to have to mix dies to get what you want? below is a picture of what a buffalo bore crimp looks like, i would not think i needed that much crimp but after last shooting and getting a boolit pull out i decided i needed more crimp. i'm shooting 330gr about 1200fps and just a small roll crimp was not enough. Thanks guys

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/215/215849.jpg

[scott0116]

You could have spent a lot less on a better die set and put the leftover cash towards more lead! I use rcbs, lyman, and lee dies and the lee's are my go to pistol dies for many calibers including the 45 colt.

[462]

The lead bits that were in the Lyman die and the shaved lead rings from the Redding tells me that you seating and crimping in one operation. Seat in one operation and crimp in another, and the shaving will not occur.

Too, the shavings, if they remain between the boolit and the case, may be preventing the die from applying the proper crimp, and possibly causing that sharp edge.

[JTknives]

The lead bits that were in the Lyman die and the shaved lead rings from the Redding tells me that you seating and crimping in one operation. Seat in one operation and crimp in another, and the shaving will not occur.

Too, the shavings, if they remain between the boolit and the case, may be preventing the die from applying the proper crimp, and possibly causing that sharp edge.

ya im now seating and crimping it 2 operations and its working great. i love the redding dies there just different then what im use to.

[Char-Gar]

Uniform and regular case neck expansion and crimp requires cases that are uniform in length and square across the mouth.

If you have not trimmed your cases, try that and I think your problems will go away.

[JTknives]

Well i was at sportsmans today and i coudl not help my self. thy finely had one set of hornadys 45 dies after mounths and mounth of being out of stock. so i bought it as i have been told thy are great. well i got home and played with them and O MY, thy are amazing. thy plain and simple kick reddings dies ass. you would think redding at over 70 bucks for a set would be the best. but these hornady dies dont under size the brass liek the redding dies do. to put it this way. size a case with the reddign and it will drop into the hornady sizer. there die set is just amazing. I have 3 sets of 45 colt dies now and hands down hornady's takes the cake. i would liek to pick up some other brands of dies to compare them but i have a winner. no more mixing and matching dies just use one set and your golden. i though i would share this info with you.

[bobthenailer]

The picture of the crimp on the bufflo bore ammo is the same as the orgional factory freedom arms 454 casull ammo. the ony way i could duplicate that crimp was with the lee factory crimp die without buckling cases! I also have the rbcs & redding pro crimp die also used to crimp in a seperate operation . I now use 1 crimp die for light loads with cast & the other for med to full loads for cast & the lee die for full loads with jacketed bullets only. I like not having to adj crip die for different bullets/ loads . i also have extra crimp & seat dies for other pistol calibers as well .
I also trim all of my revolver brass to recomended trim length after sizing , as it grows after sizing.

[MtGun44]

Hornady titanium nitride dies will literally POLISH the brass as you size it. The floating sleeve
aligns the bullet accurately to go straight into the case.

HOWEVER - the sleeve is close fitted, may be a problem with really fat boolits.

I prefer modern Hornady dies for most calibers, these days.

Lee RIFLE factory crimp die will give you a really good, consistent crimp with variable length
cases. I'm wondering if you could cut down one for .444 Marlin and make it work for the
.44 Mag or the .45-70 and make it work for .45 Colt. Unfortunately the .45 Colt is a touch
smaller diam than the .45-70, so may not work in that case.

Bill

[geargnasher]

I mix and match tools to get the results I want. My turret and progressive heads are a hodgepodge of what ever works best. I have a whole drawer full of miscl. dies, partial sets, garage sale pickups, what ever. It is a valuble resource when needing to do something outside the normal box and die modification is necessary.

The Hornady dies are THE dies to get for .44 mag and .45 Colt unless, like Bill pointed out, you're loading .455 boolits or have grossly oversized chambers.

Gear

[Pepe Ray]

Take a close look at the Lee FCD for 44-40/44WCF
Rifle type. A handy man could make this work for the 44 Mag/spl.
Pepe Ray

[1hole]

"geargnasher" makes a valid point, buying a specific brand expecting magic is a mistake. All we can do is swap dies around until we find one that does what we want, the way we want and brand has little to do with it. NONE of my 'serious' die sets have matched dies of the same brand. All dies have manufactoring tolerances, same as anything else, and all makers hold to the same SAMMI sized cartridge tolerance ranges. A single example applies ONLY to that single example because there is as much tolerance variation between dies of the same make as between makes so the brand of sizers, as such, hardly matters to the ammo.

Redding and Lyman have the "best" handgun expanders because Redding copied Lyman's excellant "M" design. Hornady's sleeved seater is nice but I don't find it any more effective than others if the cases are properly chamfered, sized, expanded and flared.

"Charger" is correct, no flaring/expander or crimper die can work consistantly on inconsistant case lengths.

[cajun shooter]

Jt, It appears that you have too much crimp on your picture of the loads. I have loaded since the late 60's and have used as another poster said all different dies to load one caliber. Redding makes a new crimping die that will put a beautiful roll crimp on your ammo when done as the last stage. The die must be kept clean as it will try to fill up with excess lube. They maybe found at MidSouth. I also use Dillon nuts on all my dies as they are flat and easier to work with on a turret. The Die is called the PROFILE CRIMP DIE. A good roll crimp in a crimping groove or over the last thin driving band will work wonders with your accuracy also.

[HangFireW8]

So i'm wondering is it normal to have to mix dies to get what you want?

It is quite normal for me, especially when moving back and forth from j-word and cast reloading. I use whatever works best, and am no respecter of brand names. I have sometimes set up Lee FC dies right after a Redding Competition seater. Whatever works.


you would think redding at over 70 bucks for a set would be the best. but these hornady dies dont under size the brass liek the redding dies do. to put it this way.

You are way too focused on brand names and not enough on the realities of the situation at hand.

First of all, there are TWO 45 Colt cartridges (and I'm not talking about the "Long" controversy). The first is the original .454" cartridge. The second is the modernized .452" cartridge. You can throw in a joker, the .001" oversized Cast Boolit version of the .452, call it a .453".

Now, take a look at the die boxes and the part numbers of the crimpers. Some of them may be 45 Colt. Some may say "Cowboy". Some may say 45ACP/AR/Colt. Some may just say "45". What does all that mean?

It means that some of the dies are no-compromise Cast Boolit dies (Cowboy), some are in-between .452"/.454" dies, and some are .452" dies only. It also means that some crimpers are roll crimpers and some crimpers are taper crimpers, and some crimpers are .454" roll crimpers that can be used as .452" taper crimpers.

Does this mean that one brand is **** and another is heavenly? Not really. It just means that for your boolit sizing, desired crimp, and chamber fit, one set of compromises is better than another.

I have ceased looking at brands of dies as a quality measure. Each die must prove concentricity and usefulness of dimensions to me. If I get an oddball die dimension, I look at it as a possible problem solver and not a problem per se.

For example, I have an old Pacific .30'06 FL die that sizes the shoulder .0025" longer than SAAMI minimum when set to compress slightly on the shell holder. At first I thought of it as broken. Now I pull it out on occasion when I want to make long headspace (but not too long) headspace .30'06 cartridges. I have one rifle chamber where that is exactly the point of zero headspace. It's like they were made for each other.

If you decide to load j-words, or find a 45 Colt firearm that needs another .001-.002" oversized to get good fit, you may find yourself reaching for a different brand crimp die, and be thankful that you have it.

-HF

[geargnasher]

I hear rumor that Hornady is entering the "Cowboy" market with an offering of .45 Colt Cowboy die sets, any word on this?

Gear