Ruger Blackhawk 45LC/45ACP

[fishnbob]

I am looking at buying the convertible model (2 cylinders) from a guy on another site and noticed the length of the Colt 45 is 1.600" and the 45ACP is 1.275" overall length. My question is, with this much difference in the length of the two cartridges (0.325") what detrimental effect, if any, does this have on the cone area or cylinder end of barrel? Looks to me like it would "ring burn" the cylinder of the 45 ACP, at least and maybe corrode both the cylinder and the barrel. What do you guys say?
I really want it for the 45 LC cartridge, I can't see myself shooting 45 ACP's in it but that is the way it comes.

[44MAG#1]

The cylinder for the 45 ACP is chambered for the length of the 45 ACP case meaning it headspaces on the case mouth and the 45 Colt cylinder is the correct length for the 45 Colt case which headspaces on the rim.
Why would you think the 45 ACP would ring burn the chamber?

[Guesser]

Two different cylinders: a burn ring in the ACP cylinder chambers is not going to effect the loading, firing, extracting any more than it would in the chamber of a semi-auto pistol chambered for the same round.
I had my 45/45 out this morning; put a hundred rounds thru each cylinder, good gun after I reamed the throat of each chamber (12) to .4525. Superbly accurate; even in my hands.

[white eagle]

chamber throats are appropriate for
each different cal
I have one and have never had an
issue whatsover
BUY IT

[fishnbob]

chamber throats are appropriate for
each different cal
I have one and have never had an
issue whatsover
BUY IT

I just closed the deal with an "I'll take it". We are now working out a FTF meeting. Thanks guys.

I just thought that since the cylinders had to be the same length overall, the shorter cartridge of the 45 ACP would be 0.325" further back in the cylinder from the end of the barrel and when discharged there would be 0.325" more space from the end of the 45 ACP cartridge for the cylinder to be burned by the burning powder.

[Guesser]

My chamber throats varied from .446 to .451 as I remember. The bore is .4515. It has never had a "J" bullet thru it. I size all to .452 and they work well. Mine is a 2005 gun, I've heard that Ruger has done a better job on the throats since then.

[Ed K]

How do you use two different length cylinders in the same revolver without changing the barrel?

[44MAG#1]

ED K:
Who said the cylinders were different lengths?

[Tom W.]

I've had mine for some years now, and I suspect for the first five years I just used it to plink with, mostly as an expensive play- pretty. I never could come up with an accurate load for the .45 Colt cylinder. I did a lot of shooting with the .45 acp cylinder, and found a decent load for it. Then I found the RCBS 270 SAA mold for the .45 Colt cylinder. The bullets now go where I point them, rather than in the general vicinity of the target. All is well with the world now...

[Dale53]

I have a Ruger SS .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible. I have described on here before how I had to ream the cylinder throats in both cylinders (and also the cylinders on two friends' revolvers purchased at the same time). After reaming, they ALL shoot extremely well with both cylinders and my cast bullets.

Dale53

[DanWalker]

One would think SOMEONE who works for Ruger might be interested enough in guns enough to read this Forum. Sadly, I doubt such a person exists, or is in a high enough position within the company to have any effect.
The bean counters have taken over. 100 years from now when school kids are studying the collapse of American business and industry, they will learn about how rampant nepotism and concern SOLELY for numbers on a spreadsheet, caused it.
Yes, I've had to ream both blackhawks I've owned as well.
Try 6.5 grains of Red Dot under a 250 or so grain SWC in that 45 colt cylinder when you get a chance.

[frank505]

Here is a clue about Ruger. At the Dallas Safari show this past January, Ruger had a booth showing some new products like the Scout rifle. I asked about a left hand version and got a long winded answer basically saying they or at least this guy was not interested. They make one now. The 416 Ruger is in that horrible rubber "stock" because it breaks wood stocks, this what I was told at 2010 SHOT show. I said have you tried a laminate stock to the guy in charge of the rifle division! Got a deer in the headlights look. Tis very sad, the 416 Ruger in a wood stocked version would be a perfect rifle for about everything. However if it stays in that rubber **** it will die. Maybe these companies should hire shooters instead of widget makers.

[Char-Gar]

Those very long 45 ACP throat has zero detrimental effect on accuracy or anything else. They work just fine.

[theperfessor]

I don't have a Ruger convertible but I do have a 625 in .45 ACP/AR. It has long throats. It's also the most consistently accurate large frame revolver I own, and I have numerous large frame Smiths in .41, .44 Special and Magnum.

Gotta agree with Chargar, long throats aren't an issue in this caliber if they're the right size. Also, haven't ever noticed a "burn ring" or anything else in throats or chambers.

[EDK]

How do you use two different length cylinders in the same revolver without changing the barrel?


The CYLINDERS are the same length....the CHAMBERS are different lengths...the throat in the ACP is extremely long, but accuracy is still good.

The ACP headspaces off the case mouth...and can be a PITA to get it right. I used to shoot S&W 625s a lot and wasted a lot of time trying to get them to function without using the moon clips. There's an old model 45 RUGER convertible sitting in the safe that I need to get busy with UNLESS someone makes me an offer I can't refuse.

[MtGun44]

+1 on what chargar and theperfessor said.

Check your throats. Mine were insanely tight and caused a few fliers in each group.
If you do a search on a very old thread in the gunsmithing area, I did a throat ream and
polish job on mine which worked out fine.

Bill

[doghawg]

I don't have a convertible but this .45 Colt was a 3 to 4 inch gun at 25 yards BEFORE getting the throats reamed to .4525". The same load before/after in first pic.
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/565apple/isley022medium.jpg
The 300 gr. RCBS sized to .452" works real well. This gun never shot any load well and I was going to sell it...it's not for sale now. It even did just fine with the .458" RCBS 300 gr. sized down to .454" in a Lee push through.
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/565apple/andyspicsii023medium.jpg

[MtGun44]

Also, IME the .45 ACP cyl is slightly MORE accurate than the .45 Colt cyl. Not sure why, but
maybe due to the sloppy fit at the rear of most .45 Colt ammo.

Bill

[fishnbob]

Thanks for the pics doghawg. That picture is worth a thousand words. I just measured my cylinder throats and they run 0.449" to 0.450". My casts(0.452") won't begin to pass through with out swaging itself. And thanks MtGun for the tip on the thread of reaming, I will look it up. Being on the site with you guys is about like living with a gunsmith, handier than a shirt pocket. I am going to shoot some groups and see how mine turn out. If it fails, I know where to start.
Thanks!

[Wally]

Also, IME the .45 ACP cyl is slightly MORE accurate than the .45 Colt cyl. Not sure why, but
maybe due to the sloppy fit at the rear of most .45 Colt ammo.

Bill

I think you are correct about that--I use an RCBS steel sizer die that does not size the cases as much as the carbide sizer die does--I do believe that it helps. Many just neck size the fired cases with a carbide sizer die adjusted to resize the first 3/8" on the case neck.

[Guesser]

I think I agree about the ACP being slightly more accurate, but its hard for me to determine, being the lousy hand gunner that I am. Plus, all my 45 ACP ammunition is loaded to work in a Colt commander, an enhanced Norinco 1911A1, a Colt new Service and the Ruger 45/45. My ammunition is not really tailored for the Ruger, it just shoots really well. good? Oh well , grammer don't live in my house too!!!

[fishnbob]

After reading everything I could find on this revolver, I find an issue about crimping the 45LC. I bought the Lee carbide 3-die set as I recall it is not necessary to crimp straight wall cases. However, with the recoil, I figured you would have to taper crimp lightly to avoid boolit migration in the cylinders upon firing. This is still attainable in the 3-die set by adjusting the seating die to crimp slightly, isn't it? Or will I have to order a Lee FCD to eliminate these issues? What is everyone else doing? I figured since the headspace took place on the case mouth, I wouldn't need the FCD. Then I read where there are issues with carbide sizers vs. steel dies and chambering problems. Have I gotten into a can of worms? I reload 357, 38, 44 mag, 9mm. 40S&W and 45ACP and haven't had any problems yet. Is this a problematic cartridge (45LC)?

[wildcatter]

In all the decades Ive shot revolvers Rugers have been the best, but in over a hundred Blackhawks, Redhawks, including the Supers, Security Sixes, and Speeds, GP's and SP's, I have never had a problem getting 1-1/4" accuacy at 25 yards, but over 9 out of ten had to small of throats when they arrived. As soon as the throats were opened up to the proper size, I had target accuracy! I have had a couple that were right, and one that was well over size. I bought a SR in 454 casul that had .4537" throats, it leaded bad even with GC's I bought a custom mold from Dan at Mountian Molds that dropped as cast 340 grain WFN slugs at .4545" sized to .454" and with a .4515" barrel it shot 1500+ fps. and 1-3/8" groups at fifty yards scoped, with 4 always cuttin the same whole, under 1".

Sorry to make such a long post but 38 spcl in 357's and 44 spcl. in 44 magies, or 45 acp's in 45 Colts, they all will shoot good but most and I really am targetting the beginning handgunners, give to the reasoning that 2.5" to 4" groups from a revolver is acceptable, or all they are capable of with a short barrel handgun. Don't believe it, if that revolver, aint shootin under 2" groups at 25 yards, you probably need to check them throats!! don't worry about tryin to touch the rifling!! once there right with a little practice most will bench 1-1/4" groups or less@25:cast_boolits:

[wildcatter]

After reading everything I could find on this revolver, I find an issue about crimping the 45LC. I bought the Lee carbide 3-die set as I recall it is not necessary to crimp straight wall cases. However, with the recoil, I figured you would have to taper crimp lightly to avoid boolit migration in the cylinders upon firing. This is still attainable in the 3-die set by adjusting the seating die to crimp slightly, isn't it? Or will I have to order a Lee FCD to eliminate these issues? What is everyone else doing? I figured since the headspace took place on the case mouth, I wouldn't need the FCD. Then I read where there are issues with carbide sizers vs. steel dies and chambering problems. Have I gotten into a can of worms? I reload 357, 38, 44 mag, 9mm. 40S&W and 45ACP and haven't had any problems yet. Is this a problematic cartridge (45LC)?

Buy it its great, I sold my 44's years ago and made the 45 caliber my standard!!

Now the Crimp! I use only a profile crimp die for all my REVOLVER LOADS! The standard crimp die in the set will work but the redding Profile is superior as a crimping die!I think you will find any revolver will shoot better with a good crimp, and the heavier the recoil the more need for a heavy crimp to keep slugs in place. But the 45 Colt is no different than any straight wall pistol cartridge, except to some of us it is maybe SUPERIOR!:lol: But seriously, if I am loading a straight wall case in an Encore pistol or a rifle, I don't see the need, but I usually am right on the rifling with bullet when the round is chambered. With the revolver there is a 1/4 inch or more jump before the bullet meets resistance and then the breach is vented by way of the cylinder gap! So the real need for the heavy crimp on a revolver is to initiate a good powder burn, as all smokeless powder burns better under pressure, this will give MUCH MORE CONSISTENT IGNITION FROM ROUND TO ROUND!

I have had my inside neck sizer on my belling stem slightly machined down so it doesn't expand the case as much and grips the boolit even tighter, for some of my cases, one inpaticular is my 454 casual die. It helped accuracy a bunch and even the big 340 grain slugs with full house loads of H-110 dont slip the krimp now!! So remember a good crimp and a tightly seated boolit are your friend in a revolver, .32 S&W to 460 S&W!!:wink: get it you wont regret it!!

But be assured the old .45 Colt has been around this longer than most with great popularity and it is growing in popularity because it is such a fabulous cartridge, very versatile and very easy to reload!! The Crimp with all revolver loads should be stiff and should be STANDARD!!

[MtGun44]

Slug the barrel, too. Ideally, you want the throat to be the same as your boolit diam or
the boolit diam to be +.001 or sometimes the work best at +.002. Then you want the
throat about .001 or .002 larger than the groove diam.

recognize that you will have to polish after reaming and ream to .001 under what you
want for your final diam. Your throat numbers are about like mine were. Not a horrible shooting
gun, but it threw fliers in every group. Now it is smooth at .453 throats and I load .454
diam boolits, and the bore is .452. Works well.

Bill