Flux and flux: this right ?

[milprileb]

I kind of feel like I got hit by two drive by shootings on this subject. Some use bullet lube or wax to flux and some use wood saw dust do flux and it appears there is some good using either solution.

So before I brew up the next batch of Wheel Weights in the dutch oven, I would like to confirm best practices with you gents.

a. When WW clips and crud are floating on top of melt, skim this crud off
b. Don't assume the flame and smoke of burning oily residue from wheel weights
does any goodness for flux purposes.
c. Introduce saw dust into the melt and stir with wood stick
d. Skim any crud that surfaces from the melt
e. Toss in wax or paraffin and stir with stick again
f. Skim crud if any off surface of the melt.

Do I have the Voo Doo down correctly? Witch Doctors of the Smelt , please comment.

[44man]

I just use paraffin. I use an old spoon on a long wood handle to stir it in. Less stuff to skim off and less smoke because it lights and burns clean.
Keep the melt at 600*, any zinc won't melt.

[btroj]

Don't over think it. You need something that burns for a decent flux. Nothing more. Use what you have. I have used wax, bullet lube, a wood stick, saw dust, and who knows what else. Everyone ends up having something they like. Some prefer saw dust because it happens to be something they have on hand. Wax or bullet lube is popular for the same reason. You don't need to use both.
The key is to have a low oxygen zone above the melt to help get some of the oxides to go back into the melt. Won't go into the science as it isn't really very interesting but that is why you want something that burns. The other benefit is that it helps get the last bits of dirt, rust, clips, whatever, to separate from the melt better so it can be skimmed off.

Again,don't over think this stuff. I would suggest using what you have on hand. Try a few melts and see how it goes. Find a system that works for you.

[Lizard333]

I use candle wax, because I can get it a yards sales really cheap, and when you burn it, if the candle was scented, it smells GOOD. In addition, it kinda has its own thermometer built in, as I know I got the pot a little hot when I ad it and it ignites.

[cbrick]

Waxes will reduce any tin in the alloy but it will not, cannot remove any of the contaminants in the alloy such as aluminum, calcium etc. and yes, WW alloy will have these metals and more in them. Wax is simply the wrong chemistry for removing the things you want removed.

Sawdust will reduce tin AND remove contaminants and create an oxygen barrier on top of the melt. Read chapter 4 on fluxing where this is explained in plain english.

From Ingot To Target (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf)

Rick

[Doby45]

I use Pat's most wonderful wood chip flux for my fluxing purposes. Smells greats and does a great job..

[geargnasher]

Waxes will reduce any tin in the alloy but it will not, cannot remove any of the contaminants in the alloy such as aluminum, calcium etc. and yes, WW alloy will have these metals and more in them. Wax is simply the wrong chemistry for removing the things you want removed.

Sawdust will reduce tin AND remove contaminants and create an oxygen barrier on top of the melt. Read chapter 4 on fluxing where this is explained in plain english.

From Ingot To Target (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf)

Rick

:goodpost:
Milprileb, this is probably the simplest and most accurate response possible to your question. Wax/grease/oil will turn your tin/lead/antimony oxide scum back into useable metal (through the process of the reduction/oxidation reaction) and so is called "reducing oxides", but it isn't the whole deal. Fluxing is the process of adding something that removes "impurities", what ever those are for the metal in question. For boolit metal, Glen Fryxell figured out that sawdust made a great flux, and in the process of charring, made an excellent reducant, too, so it's a one-size-fits-all material.


I use Pat's most wonderful wood chip flux for my fluxing purposes. Smells greats and does a great job..

Pine resin is an excellent reducant, and in the same package with woodchips, makes the perfect reducant/flux combination.

Gear

[ColColt]

I cast in one bay of my garage with the door open and you can still smell the burned sawdust hours later. It's not particular bad, just a wood burn smell. A guy at work has access to a sawmill and brings me in a full plastic grocery store bag in now and then when I'm running low. Maybe spray some Obsession for Men on it and let it cure would make it smell better...yeah, that's the ticket.

[geargnasher]

I've tried pipe tobacco, fresh coffee grounds, cinnamon sticks, old potporri, scented candles, and various wood chips, in the end it all stinks when smoldering. Less so when burning.

Western Cedar chips from the router table smell good and keep the flying pests far away. Something in the wood is toxic to insects (and people, too, to a certain extent) and the smoke is the best mosquito fogger on the planet.

ColColt, I'd try White Diamonds if I were you, not into smellin' men's cologne myself :kidding:

Gear

[ColColt]

White Diamonds? I've heard of White Shoulders but not Diamonds. I had an ol' girlfriend in the mid 60's that wore the White Shoulders that's why I remember that. Maybe I should have said Obsession for Women.:) I made the mistake of buying that once and thought it smelled different from what I was use to. I took it back and the sales lady asked where I bought it and I told here right here. She said, "Oh, honey, this is for women. The Obsession for Men is down the counter on the right". The only cologne I've ran across that was for men or women. All in all, cedar chips sounds like a better bet.

[cbrick]

Not perfume, better ventilation is the key. I cast in an enclosed room and cannot smell the sawdust even while it’s smoking away and I'm standing right next to the pot.

I have a strong ceiling mounted vent fan about 2 1/2 feet above the pot, an open vent in the rear of the shop lets fresh air in and the vent draws it out. The downside is that it also draws out all of the heat or air conditioning from the shop just as effectively, just as quickly. The upside is that I can turn down the exhaust vent once the sawdust stops smoking.

If ya don’t like perfume and don’t want to use that it was suggested on this very forum not too long ago to use used cat litter as an oxygen barrier . . . Try that! I promise that afterwards you will LOVE the smell of sawdust.

Rick

[geargnasher]

Kitty litter has to be of the "used" variety in order to do any reducing! It makes a good insulator and decent oxygen barrier if added to an alloy that has just been fluxed/reduced/skimmed, and makes cold weather, outdoor casting much more practical.

I wonder, Rick, if the porous clay has any affinity for boolit metals or the impurities?

Gear

[cbrick]

Kitty litter has to be of the "used" variety in order to do any reducing! Gear

Geez, that was a joke. I hope no one here is foolish enough to try used cat litter. I can't imagine a stomach strong enough to stand it. Might also make a good flux but barfing on the melt wouldn't be fun or smell much better than the cat litter.

Rick

[ColColt]

My Granny was from the backwoods area of Ashville, NC-logging country back then. She had a lot of sayings and terms not heard anymore but, I can imagine her response to the kitty litter flux. Probably something like, "My God, that would puke a buzzard.":mrgreen:

[Longwood]

[QUOTE=milprileb;1321955

Do I have the Voo Doo down correctly? Witch Doctors of the Smelt , please comment.[/QUOTE]

Shaking a rattle over the pot with some screech owl feathers tied to it with piece of rawhide made from a vampire bat, while chanting, works well.
Boogaloo, boogaloo, umbaba, obama, boogaloo boogaloo!
A bone in the nose also helps it all go smoothly.

[44man]

Shaking a rattle over the pot with some screech owl feathers tied to it with piece of rawhide made from a vampire bat, while chanting, works well.
Boogaloo, boogaloo, umbaba, obama, boogaloo boogaloo!
A bone in the nose also helps it all go smoothly.
Carbon is what does the job and Obama is as close as I can figure.
But I would bet it would stink so bad Cbrick would need to go outside! :kidding:

[noylj]

If it smokes, it fluxes. I always ignite the smoke.
I like to flux soon and often.
Things smell better with a fire instead of petroleum smoke pouting out the casting area.
Bullet lube and paraffin wax work.

[cbrick]

If it smokes, it fluxes. I always ignite the smoke.
I like to flux soon and often.
Things smell better with a fire instead of petroleum smoke pouting out the casting area.
Bullet lube and paraffin wax work.

I always like to learn something new so let me know if I have this correct.
If it makes smoke it fluxes, right? It will reduce lead, tin and antimony AND remove the undesirable contaminants? Correct?

Learn something new everyday here. Simply amazing!

Rick

[geargnasher]

Yeeaahhh.:roll: Sometimes I don't know why we bother to explain it.

Gear

PS, my dear wife deals with the litter boxes, I can't stand the smell of room temperature cat poo, much less smokin' hot cat poo! Puke does NOT make good flux!

[milprileb]

Sorcery will become a lost art if you old hands at the black arts of casting and flux don't share !!

[mroliver77]

Shaking a rattle over the pot with some screech owl feathers tied to it with piece of rawhide made from a vampire bat, while chanting, works well.
Boogaloo, boogaloo, umbaba, obama, boogaloo boogaloo!
A bone in the nose also helps it all go smoothly.
That would be illegal in Ohio!
J

[Echo]

but barfing on the melt wouldn't be fun or smell much better than the cat litter.

Rick

And probably invite a visit from the Tinsel fairy!