cast boolits

[white eagle]

is still pouring molten lead into a mold and making boolits correct ?
Some of you make way to much out of a relatively simple thing ...
its really no wonder a new would be caster is confused :castmine:
:drinks:

[quilbilly]

I think most of us are pathological tinkerers trying to fix things that "ain't broke". We tend to make things more complicated than they need to be because it is part of the fun. Settling on one load for our favorite caliber is just not in our nature.

[geargnasher]

It's a "Salad Bar" forum. If your enjoyment of the hobby doesn't require advanced understanding or extremes of detail and method, nobody's going to gripe at you. Believe me, sometimes when my head is spinning from hours on the press and range fine-tuning a load, it's nice to whip out my .38 revolver and go blaze some garbage-alloy tumble-lube boolits at cans. Besides, it's a nice way to dispose of the oddball scrap lead I accumulate, and there just isn't any improving 2.8 grains of Bullseye under a 158-grain SWC.

Gear

[Von Gruff]

I have an idea that those who cast to plink are not the ones who frequent the froums as most of the discusians will be on minutae that is way past the needs they have.
As white eagle said pouring alloy into a mould for a shooter is about as complicated as it needs to be.....................but........................ ...............how many of us can be content with that.

Von Gruff.

[RobS]

For many, including myself, it's free therapy any which way a person wants to twist it.

[XWrench3]

I think most of us are pathological tinkerers trying to fix things that "ain't broke". We tend to make things more complicated than they need to be because it is part of the fun. Settling on one load for our favorite caliber is just not in our nature.
AMEN BROTHER, AMEN!
part of this of course is just getting through the initial "new caster" mode. that in itself is a process. then, for me anyway, the accuracy bug bit. and now i am not happy with one good (moa or better) load, i want multiple good loads for each caliber. tweaking things to see what you can get is part of the fun. and if it isnt fun, why are we doing it!?! [smilie=w::guntootsmiley:

[44man]

It really is simple and nothing has changed.
I consider casting a huge bore. :veryconfu I need some pole dancing girls on my bench! :bigsmyl2: It is about as interesting as cutting a 3' oak into toothpicks with a pocket knife. In the end it is the shooting that makes it all worthwhile.
Did I tell you I hate loading ammo as much? I also hate to clean guns.
Only the end result like deer on the ground or targets hit is what I enjoy.
I am cleaning my garage right now, a week wasted so far. Another hated job! Can't go outside, the gnats are bad plus the spider and worm webs. How does that little spider string a web from tree to tree????
Not easy getting old! [smilie=s:

[kbstenberg]

44Man for the first time I have to disagree with you. It is probable that the act of casting is still new to me. BUT. For me making those little pills is JUST as much fun as shooting them!!

[onesonek]

I don't know,,, I still think it goes back to, to each their own. I have often been called a perfectionist, and some would consider that a character defect,, I don't much care about that. But, I know what I want, and I'll do everything I possibly can to get the results I want. I have been one of those that setup for one load per rig, until I got into cast. Eventually I'll have it where I will have enough set up where, they will be more load/use specific. But more on point of the OP. No, it isn't overly complicated, but as much reading I did prior to my first casting session, things were happening that I didn't understand, or simply plain forgot what I had read/learned. So I read and asked more, paying closer attention to both.

Point is, getting the alloy hot enough and pouring it in a mold without paying a lot of attention to detail and consistency, will get me by with one load/gun combination, as it is a short range affair. Some would want sub moa groups at 50 yds, for me in it's intended use, 3-4 moa will do well enough. But when one wants to push the limits in both speed and range, and or have better than average accuracy, well then to me at least, the details and consistency become more critical.

Understanding all the minutae and applying it, isn't all that complicated either. It just makes what was good enough, better. I have learned a lot on these forums at CB, and will continue to learn more as I go along. Even if I don't apply all aspects for certain situations, it is still good to have learned and acquired such knowledge. What I learn today, may not be needed today or even tomorrow, but may come in handy sometime down the road.
The biggest problem I have is, retaining or remembering what I learned yesterday, until I get a chance to put it into practice a few times!

For other's it may be different, but for me with most things, it's all about detail and consistency.

[btroj]

What Gear said was partially true. There is a place for a hard core look at the minute details. These are fine when we are pushing the envelope. Could be high velocity, soft bullets, extreme accuracy, whatever. What bugs me are the newbies who want to go to that level in developing a plinking load.
Keep it as simple as you can. If one gun needs a more involved approach then do it but don't assume every gun does.
Listen to the gun. If the gun is happy then learn to be happy too. Don't fret over mould temp, bore dimensions, fire lapping, lube viscosity, etc when things are going fine. Those are areas to fret over when things are going poorly.
I bet 75 % or more of guns will shoot just fine with pretty simple carting techniques. Might well be more. I don't own a ppt or mould thermometer. No electronic controls on my pot beyond what it came with. I don't use 14 different lubes. I don't have a hardness tester. I don't know exactly what my alloy is but I do know I have ingots of varying hardness. I mix my alloy in the pot from stuff I have previously smelted. Somehow I still manage to put rounds down range, kill a deer each fall, and have fun. I keep it simple because that works for me. I have had a few times where I had to do some work to get things to work out properly but those are pretty rare. Most stuff just shoots well from the start.

[garym1a2]

I thought so till I had the wack t he mold to get them to drop. Than many of them did not feed in my 1911 and afterwards it took me weeks to get the lead out of the gun. Now I progressed to where I shoot 300 rnds out of my 9mm glcok and the barrelel only took 5 minutes to clean. Someday I hope to progress enough to cast for 223 in my AR.

[Down South]

How does that little spider string a web from tree to tree????

I have often wondered that myself. The little boogers have taken my shop over and when I'm gone for a week and I come back to spider webs strung from stuff that I can't understand how they got the web from one to the other unless they have wings.

Back to topic, I actually enjoy casting and like many others, I started out right here learning how to get the first Boolits to fill out correctly. From there I learned a lot more. Like getting Boolits sized correctly with the right alloy to prevent leading, gaining accuracy, which Boolit I needed for the application that I needed, Leementing moulds, Checking revolver cylinder throats and on and on.

This site is designed for the beginner who just purchased his first mould to the most advanced casters out there. There is something for everyone here.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

is still pouring molten lead into a mold and making boolits correct ?
Some of you make way to much out of a relatively simple thing ...
its really no wonder a new would be caster is confused :castmine:
:drinks:

Most of the "new would be casters" would just buy a Lee mold and a Lee pot,
read the directions and have marginal success. Then, maybe, he will search out some
more info, maybe end up here, then read how to improve there cast projectiles,
and then...maybe at first be confused and wonder, why doesn't Lee have
better info in their instructions ? and then the real search/sharing of info begins...
OR maybe the caster be scared away at the complexity of the discussion.
This isn't the local coffee shoppe, this isn't for everyone.

I think it would be silly to "simple down" the conversation to accomodate simpletons.
They are surely welcome here and encouraged to ask questions,
no doubt there will be at least one simple answer given,
especially if the question is asked again...reworded.

BTW, I was a simpleton when I started this forum (and still am, sorta).
A couple of the first simple questions I asked was, why does certain lead alloys age harden after casting ?
... and why does lead work soften? and brass work harden ?

I didn't realize this was not a simple question when I asked it.
I didn't understand the answers, but it didn't matter,
I just had to accept it, that is the way it is !
Jon

PS, I'm learning all the time here.
In fact, recently there was an exchange on your WTS post about
temperature of the mold effecting boolit size.
Prior to which, while I kinda had the understanding that Aluminum
would expand when heated, But, I never dreamed it would expand
enough to effect boolit size as much as .001" or .002"
as Tom of AM chimed in with...if anyone would know, it surely would be him.

[thehouseproduct]

I try to keep things simple if I can. I have to admit that 95% of my cast boolit loads are simply designed to make the gun go bang and make a hole in cardboard 10 feet away. I'll admit that i use boolits that should go back in the pot. :-)

I enjoy reloading a lot but not casting as much. Free projectiles are too hard to pass up though.

[onesonek]

What Gear said was partially true. There is a place for a hard core look at the minute details. These are fine when we are pushing the envelope. Could be high velocity, soft bullets, extreme accuracy, whatever. What bugs me are the newbies who want to go to that level in developing a plinking load.
Keep it as simple as you can. If one gun needs a more involved approach then do it but don't assume every gun does.
Listen to the gun. If the gun is happy then learn to be happy too. Don't fret over mould temp, bore dimensions, fire lapping, lube viscosity, etc when things are going fine. Those are areas to fret over when things are going poorly.
I bet 75 % or more of guns will shoot just fine with pretty simple carting techniques. Might well be more. I don't own a ppt or mould thermometer. No electronic controls on my pot beyond what it came with. I don't use 14 different lubes. I don't have a hardness tester. I don't know exactly what my alloy is but I do know I have ingots of varying hardness. I mix my alloy in the pot from stuff I have previously smelted. Somehow I still manage to put rounds down range, kill a deer each fall, and have fun. I keep it simple because that works for me. I have had a few times where I had to do some work to get things to work out properly but those are pretty rare. Most stuff just shoots well from the start.

I would agree in part, of most everything you said,,,,if everybody was the same, or applied everything the same.

What bugs me are the newbies who want to go to that level in developing a plinking load.

This is assuming everybody should look at a plinking load as you do. They may have completely different expectations from their plinking load than you do. I can't see where there is anything wrong in tweeking the best out of plinking load, if that is their desire.
While I don't cast for this one rig I have, and it is primarily use, is for nothing but plinking,,,, I am still playing with it in hopes that I will come up with that .25 moa or better load, that I believe it is capable of. Some would say that the .4 moa I'm getting is good enough. Again it is, each to their own desires.
Granted as in most things, one must learn to walk before running. But certainly nothing wrong in striving for the best, if that is one's goal. Sooner or later, the "newbie" has to start someplace, sometime, in reaching their goals, even if it is premature by someone else's thought's. If one sometimes don't fall down and get back up to try again, nothing is learned or gained.

[bhn22]

Some people cast to support their shooting habit. Other people shoot to support their casting habit.

Then there are the people who measure cast bullets to the fourth decimal...

[btroj]

Dave, I suppose I should say that I view a plinking load as something designed to be easy to cast for in volume, cheap on powder and hopefully lead, easy to load, and capable of hitting a beer can at 50 yards with regularity. Plinking ammo to me is loading in 100s of rounds for my lever guns or handguns. I don't want to have to worry over bullet age growth, variations in hardness, etc. I want to cast, load, shoot. That to me is plinking ammo. Weighing bullets, measuring for age growth, etc is definitely out.

[ColColt]

Contrary to 44Man, I like to cast and see the fruits of my labor fall before me. It's especially delightful and heart warming to take that concoction of lead/tin/antimony that YOU made, assembled and shot punch little holes in targets you could cover with a quarter(sometimes a pie plate).

I enjoy the reloading process. It's not laborious to me but more like sitting down with a bowl of popcorn and a Coke watching your favorite Western. Time consuming, yes, but not wasted time. Knowing that you assembled the entire box of 50 or 100 rounds to take to the range is soul satisfying. I gain as much solace from this as much as I do enjoying my dog lying beside me on the couch enjoying each other while we watch TV together. Everyone to their own cup of tea, I suppose.

I had gotten away from casting for quite a few years until a few months back due to the time I knew it would take and didn't want to spend that much time casting and reloading(a hobby in itself) as I knew I'd feel guilty not spending that time with my dog who is my only family. I finally decided to go for it and just try to get him to stay with me in whatever I'm doing. It's worked out pretty well. For certain I couldn't visit the range as much as I do and shoot the amount I do if I had to buy factory rounds so, this all has a fourfold effect of saving me money, giving me something to do and a feeling of accomplishment when I'm through. Moreover, I discovered I didn't know nearly as much as I thought I did until I came here. Blown away by all the specifics of casting? You bet I was, initially. I kept thinking these guys must not have anything else to occupy their minds with but after reading a lot before even posting, I found myself intrigued by all the knowledge here and just what I had never heard before about casting.

So, like anything else we endeavor to do, you can spend as little time as necessary to make boolits and put them in brass cases or you can improve drastically the quality of your reloads and watch groups shrink and visually see the quality of your labor. I remain open to improvements of my techniques and that's why I'm here. It all doesn't have to be an exact science that requires more time reading about than actually doing but, you cant rebuilt a flathead V8 just buy having pistons, rod bearings, and a compression gauge at your disposal. You'll need a manual with detail to show how to piece it all together and the tolerances, thereof. CastBoolits is that manual for me.

As Down South said, there's something for everyone here. There's info here you just won't find in a casting/reloading manual.

[onesonek]

That I can understand and agree with more readily btroj,,,, as it has less implication's, of what other's should be doing

[357shooter]

Casting can be a simple process that produces good results. But there is so much false information that is taken a truth, such as "you can't shoot lead over 1,000FPS without it leading". That's commonly accepted as true and is an example, there are many more.

Once someone realizes that isn't true, casting opens up a wide range of possibilities that seems unending.

With a long list of these uninformed "guidelines or in some cases, rules" being wrong it may mean casting is basically simple, but exploring the limits of casting is challenging.

It's also an absolute blast! (for some)

[waksupi]

Elementary cast boolits is a simple thing. People come here for the post graduate course.

http://ednieuw.home.xs4all.nl/Spiders/Info/Construction_of_a_web.html

[btroj]

I will say that some of what I read here fascinates me even though I have no desire to do it. The swaging section in particular.m the idea of using empty pistol cases as a bullet jacket amazes me. The quality of the bullets that those guys make is likewise amazing to me.
I like to see the simple solutions people come up with to solve problems. What I will say bugs me a bit is the idea that it is an equipment race. Great shooting loads can be assembled without large expense. Lee moulds may have some issue but the bullets from them can shoot very well. You don't need a Star sizer for good results.
We all can get out if this site what we want. I just hope the new guys don't think that you MUST fret over every detail to have any hope of success. I don't have a trouble with others do what want but I see too many newbs getting stuck in a rut. They worry details that don't matter in the arena they are working. We see this with temp, hardness, best lube, etc. We need more testing , more shooting, more casting, and less keyboard "research". Most of what I know I learned at the range, not here. This is where I get info but that info is tested and validated at the range and on the target. My gun and the target will always be the final judge.

[Jim]

Dave, I suppose I should say that I view a plinking load as something designed to be easy to cast for in volume, cheap on powder and hopefully lead, easy to load, and capable of hitting a beer can at 50 yards with regularity. Plinking ammo to me is loading in 100s of rounds for my lever guns or handguns. I don't want to have to worry over bullet age growth, variations in hardness, etc. I want to cast, load, shoot. That to me is plinking ammo. Weighing bullets, measuring for age growth, etc is definitely out.

Yup, that's me. I call that category of ammo my "recreational loads". Some times I like to shoot just for the fun of shooting, so I don't get too anal about the accuracy of the ammo.

On the other hand, I do like to see just how accurate I can get with some of my rifle loads. I do enjoy the challenge of seeing how good I can get with it. So, I find enjoyment at both ends of the spectrum.

[Longwood]

Can't go outside, the gnats are bad plus the spider and worm webs. How does that little spider string a web from tree to tree????


They use a bit of web to sail with the wind. Spiders have been caught at some very high altitudes.

[Longwood]

It really is simple and nothing has changed.
I consider casting a huge bore. :veryconfu I need some pole dancing girls on my bench! :bigsmyl2: It is about as interesting as cutting a 3' oak into toothpicks with a pocket knife. In the end it is the shooting that makes it all worthwhile.
Did I tell you I hate loading ammo as much? I also hate to clean guns.


I pretty much agree with you.
It is nothing but another job that is necessary so I can shoot a lot for cheap.
I find nothing addicting about it either.
The shooting, maybe, the work involved to get there, not even.
If I was rich, or still had a good paying union job, I would buy all of my ammo and leave the brass right where it landed.

[canyon-ghost]

Some people cast to support their shooting habit. Other people shoot to support their casting habit.

Then there are the people who measure cast bullets to the fourth decimal...


Well said. Plinking loads are good but, I started silhouettes at the match level. I do weigh and measure bullets. And I have some plinkin' guns I love to mess with. I guess there's a serious side and a playful side. I don't use my revolvers for serious stuff but, I could.

Sometimes, if it works, don't fix it.

Ron

PS: Longwood, how on earth would I get fireforms and once fired brass if I did that? There's a reason for that too. But, yes, some guys don't care about their brass.

[gray wolf]

Some people cast to support their shooting habit. Other people shoot to support their casting habit.
Then there are the people who measure cast bullets to the fourth decimal...
__________________

I am the sort of person that if interested in something I need to know everything there is to know about it. Many times this will bore, or even annoy some people, they just don't care to be informed about the details.
Look at it this way--
We get up, put on our shoes, tie the laces and go about our day.
But some folks need to know how many strands of material are in each lace, what the little plastic thing is made of on the end of the shoe lace.
How long it is and do we have a spare if it breaks. What the shoe is made of and how many stitches are around the sole holding it on.
I probably lost some of my audience already.
In the end we all put the shoes on and go about our day.
What bugs me are the people that are not interested in the fine points and insist on telling other people there not important. Mostly because they are intimidated with someone Else's desire for knowledge.
Some folks would rather walk, some would rather ride and some just want to stay in the easy chair.
Learning about things gives us the ability to tell a small child why the sky is blue and why water boils at 212*F.
IMHO there is nothing to wrong with any of this, after all it's what makes the world go round.
Do what makes you happy and as long as you don't have someones neck under your boot I don't see the problem.

[captaint]

Hell, if good enough was good enough, I wouldn't have 10 different .45ACP molds. There's always that - hey I wonder how that one would shoot?? Fun, though... Mike

[geargnasher]

My plinking loads must shoot straight. Once I get them there, and in a way that I have some tolerance for alloy variances and shooting conditions, I leave it alone. No fun shooting cans when half the misses can legitimately be blamed on the load. But I don't want a lot of extra fuss involved with fun ammo, no fillers, no extra steps, if it can't be loaded on a three stage progressive or turret, I work on it 'till it can.

How many times have we seen a newbie post "I was getting wrinkled boolits, so I cranked up the pot to max". Is explaining to him that alloy temperature should be maintained within a window best for the health of the alloy, and that MOULD temperature is what determines good boolits suddently turning this into some sort of incomprehensible rocket science?

Is explaining that certain alloys cast smaller boolits when the mould is hot enough to cause light frosting some sort of excess complication? I don't see it. Basic reloading takes a lot more mental power than it does to comprehend basic casting principles.

Gear

[adrians]

whats plinking?????:kidding:

[btroj]

Well said Gear.
I view answering a simple question like that as a basic function of this site. The ones that worry me are the newbie who wants to know if .01% more Sb in his allow at 726.8degrees will make his new NOE mould cast a bullet with a BHN .48points higher. He wants this because he read a certain BHN is "best" at 1594.78fps in his 30-30 which he has fire lapped to within an inch of it's death. He neck turns all cases, weighs them to .001gr and his bullets are hand lubed, sized thru a custom die so it is exactly the right size, and checked with annealed checks. He does all this because he has read that all these things are "required" to get a gun to shoot better than 2 MOA at 100 yards.
Those are the questions that tell me people get in over their heads with knowledge taken out of context. Waksupi was right, this site is the Ph.D. Of casting. Problem is that we have many newbies who haven't graduated from high school casting and think everything discussed here is gospel in all situations.

When I say I like to keep it simple I am saying everyone should in all cases. If the application required extra care then I use it. I just don't want people to think failure to weigh charges for their 380 ACP means the bullets won't hit a paper plate at 5 feet. Context people, it is all about context to me.

[onesonek]

I will say that some of what I read here fascinates me even though I have no desire to do it. The swaging section in particular.m the idea of using empty pistol cases as a bullet jacket amazes me. The quality of the bullets that those guys make is likewise amazing to me.
I like to see the simple solutions people come up with to solve problems. What I will say bugs me a bit is the idea that it is an equipment race. Great shooting loads can be assembled without large expense. Lee moulds may have some issue but the bullets from them can shoot very well. You don't need a Star sizer for good results.
We all can get out if this site what we want. I just hope the new guys don't think that you MUST fret over every detail to have any hope of success. I don't have a trouble with others do what want but I see too many newbs getting stuck in a rut. They worry details that don't matter in the arena they are working. We see this with temp, hardness, best lube, etc. We need more testing , more shooting, more casting, and less keyboard "research". Most of what I know I learned at the range, not here. This is where I get info but that info is tested and validated at the range and on the target. My gun and the target will always be the final judge.

I too find a lot of stuff here fascinating, and I also agree, it don't always take tons or the most expensive equipment to get the task at hand done right. I'm more of minimalist at heart, even though I still carry some things to the extreme. (albeit not quite to the extreme of the what I feel is exaggerated in your last post)

Beyond that, we just look at things differently, which is quite alright in itself.

I feel there are many ways to gauge success, and that no one measure of success, is same for everyone.
I also understand the concerns of someone getting mired down in details. But I feel there, rather than it being a "must", but rather, just good to know. More knowledge is never a bad thing. The only negative, is if something isn't quite right or working, someone tries to correct it by changing too many details at once, rather than one at a time. I see knowledge of such details, not to put one in a rut, but rather help them out, should they find themselves in one.

I also agree, that it is your's, mine, anyone else's gun and targets, along with a good deal of shooting, is the only way to know what's what. But I feel, prior research and or knowledge acquired here and elsewhere, is not a problem creator, but rather problem solver, should one arise. If something is not right and one does not understand the possible why's,,,, how does one fix it otherwise. That's not saying someone new, shouldn't jump in and get wet, once the basics are known. Most often doing so is the best of learning experiences. Beyond that, to what level one wants to delve into the details, is pretty much a personal thing dependant on personal needs, wants, and desires. I just look at the knowledge or knowing details of what I am working with as, "tools of the trade". Sometimes, it isn't so critical, other situations it might be.
But I agree with you and others on most at the surface, the rest, I just look at it differently.

[44man]

whats plinking?????:kidding:
That is not serious work. Cans at 25 to 50 or walnuts on the rail at 50. Accuracy---YES but cheaper then a full deer load. More shots at less expense. More laughing and fun. I have an old oxygen tank at 100 that makes great noise when hit.
Boolits for fun shooting are as good as those for serious work, just less lead and powder wasted.
I find it strange to shoot a can at 25 yards with a 320 gr .44 boolit with 296 when 7 gr of Unique and a 250 gr will do it.
Plinking is making noise and having a good time.
My friends have .50 BMG's that cost $2 + for each shot. That is not fun plinking, that is serious work. When they let me shoot, I feel bad for the pain in their pockets.

[nanuk]

I like it all

an easy Gear type load for plinking fun targets
an easy "go to" load good enough for Deer
a full on power load for Moose
some specialty loads, like shot, for grouse
a target load, where accuracy is the only goal
multiple caliber/cartridge (eventually I will get that down to only a few.... 15 or 20 or so)

[ColColt]

Working up a good load with different bullets/powder combinations has always been a great thrill for me be it rifle or pistol. There's nothing like the feeling of seeing your handiwork perform at the range or in the field knowing you're the one that made it happen.

I remember back in the mid 70's I had a custom 270 Winchester and wanted to work up a varmint load. I used the 115 gr Hornady jhp on top of 60 gr of H4831. A shooting compadre was spotting for me as I tried for groups at 100 yards from the bench. I had a 3-9x Weaver and was sighting it in to hit 3" high at 100 yards. Out of nowhere a crow landed on top of my target frame(heh, heh). I told my buddy to watch and aimed about three inches below his belly, right about at his feet, and squeezed the trigger. I lost part of it in recoil but he told me he was there on the frame and suddenly disappeared. We found nothing but feathers and some green stuff he must have had prior to his demise. I think I had a pretty accurate load there and it proved itself later as well.

[1Shirt]

Gotta go with Gear and 44Man most of the time on most of the subjects. Think they think a lot like I do in fact. There are times I like to read the tech guts of a subject on this forum, and others that I just like the short, sweet, and simple responses to a statement or question. As to plinking, to me that is a lot of ammo, (never less than a hundred rounds)a number of cans/clays etc, and 22LR.
1Shirt!:coffee: