marlin 336 realoading

[ROCKET]

Just got my first lever - a marlin 336w. great condition with only 150 rounds down the pipe. Microgroove model. At the same time I also purchased a Lee reloaded 50th anniversary kit with some 30 30 lee dies, about 300 30/30 cases and some varget powder, some cci primers and 300 hornady and 100 nosler partitions in .308

I want to start to reload my own stuff. I've never reloaded before but I am willing and able to learn. I am a little confused on the size of the bullets, 308, 309, 310 and 311 . Some need gas checks and some do not. I've been reading for the past 2 weeks about sizes, loads and such that my head is ready to explode :killingpc

Can someone advise what bullets and loads would work best for my Marlin. I would be shooting mostly at the range and I would like my loads to be as accurate as possible without breaking the bank.

[Ed in North Texas]

First - get a reloading manual. Lyman, Hornady, Speer, doesn't matter (though apparently you wish to get into cast boolits, in which case I'd recommend the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual, even over the otherwise excellent RCBS Cast Bullet Manual). Many of your more basic questions will be answered in those manuals, and you will have tested and proven loading information too.


With a tube magazine lever gun, you need to use flat nose, or round nose, boolits/bullets in order to make sure the pointed tip of one bullet doesn't touch the primer of the cartridge in front of it (so recoil doesn't possibly cause the front cartridge to go off in the magazine). One tried and true .30-30 lever gun boolit is the Lyman 311291, a round nose, gas check 170 grain boolit. The actual width dimension, and weight, of the boolit from any particular mould will vary with the alloy composition and how many moulds that particular cherry had already cut. Not to mention that various barrels will have different dimensions and you'll want to fit your boolits to your barrel, not just any generic barrel (though modern barrels tend to be pretty consistent within a brand/model).

All I would give out to a new reloader would be manual listed starting loads, and the manual will provide a lot of basic information in addition to loads. For actual loads, beyond the manuals there is also a website "Loaddata", which is a subscription access website by the folks at Handloader and Rifle magazines. Probably not a good idea for a one cartridge reloader though.

And finally, when you have a specific question/problem which goes beyond the basic stuff, post it on Cast Boolits and you'll have the answer (or several).

Welcome to what I consider a hobby within the shooting hobby.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

first thing first

you need to pick a manual
personally since you have lee equipment i would spend your next approximately 15 dollars on a Lee Modern Reloading second edition manual

read the first 205 pages , then go back an re-read

now your ready to begin

next advise - do not use loading blocks well at least not for when your measuring powder , get all your brass ready primed , bullets ready then measure the powder into the case put a bullet on it and seat the bullet , your choice of varget will be case fill for 30-30 untill you do reduced loads , but this is a good habit to get into early

i started reloading this year , so i have just answered all these same questions for myself
to select a manual i actually got all of the ones i could get from the library that was the Lyman , hornady , and lee you may want to do the same.

i chose the turret press it is very nice to have all my does together for a caliber

your bullet choices your on a cast website asking about jacketed bullets , the lee book has good info for both , and good info about casting your own brief but good .
as for your bullets , are they pointed , this is a no no for lever guns with tube magazines the soft polymer tip ones are ok , cast takes a bit more work on the loaders part to watch signs and to make it work well but it allows so much fun changing variables experimenting and learning to fill your mind for years and potentially cost savings lead you cast yourself if you watch your cost of materials can save you a fair amount of money over purchased jacketed bullets

currently my cast loads are costing me 10-12 cents each , if I were buying boxed jacketed bullets from the store they tend to run me 24-30 cents just for the bullet then add 3 cents for primer and 5-9 for powder.


jacketed are easier to load , you just follow the recipe in the book always starting with the starting load and work up slowly , accuracy will rarely be at max when you find accuracy stop increasing it's not worth it the deer or target will not know the difference in a few feet per second , and your brass will last much longer

one thing that is barely mentioned in the lee book is cleaning brass 2 reasons first it is not necessary much of the time if you started with clean new brass and you keep it clean and off the ground , the second is A family friend of the lee's had lead poisoning , and when they inspected his loading equipment they determined the cause his medial , medial separator , and area where he cleaned brass was heavily contaminated with very very fine powdered lead they cleaned up this area , and he stopped vibrating brass with media and he didn't ave any more problems with Lead poisoning.

if your brass does need cleaning de prime it , place it in a jar with a tight sealing lid leaving about 1/3 of the jar empty then pour in 1 teaspoon citric acid per pint of hot water like 140-180* cap and agitate and let sit 15 or so minutes , some let it go longer you can reuse the solution it gets weaker with use but for it's cost i do the brass i have to do that day and pour it down the drain , then rinse the brass with more hot water agitate in the jar then drain and pour out on a shop towel stand them up right in a tray or a what ever you have so they can dry completely the citric acid actually reacts with the brass to give them a corrosion resistance kind of like bluing metal it is important not to use other acids like sulfuric or hydrochloric they leach the zinc from the brass making it weak citric acid can be found in many grocery stores , and bulk food stores , it is used in canning.

bullet sizing , jacketed bullets for 30-30 are sized .308 , the reason you read about us sizing our cast lead bullets larger is because they are softer and need to fill the bore completely with out being to large

the Lee c309-170f is my mold for 30-30 i shoot a marlin 336 micro groove also my mold casts with an alloy of wheel weights and tin at .310 i leave them as cast .310 is usualy ideal for .308 cal rifles like 30-30 .308 30-06

i have been working with reduced loads and have not gas checked my boolits yet and i am getting up into the 1500 fps speeds with unchecked cast boolits

[ROCKET]

first thing first

you need to pick a manual
personally since you have lee equipment i would spend your next approximately 15 dollars on a Lee Modern Reloading second edition manual

read the first 205 pages , then go back an re-read

now your ready to begin

next advise - do not use loading blocks well at least not for when your measuring powder , get all your brass ready primed , bullets ready then measure the powder into the case put a bullet on it and seat the bullet , your choice of varget will be case fill for 30-30 untill you do reduced loads , but this is a good habit to get into early

i started reloading this year , so i have just answered all these same questions for myself
to select a manual i actually got all of the ones i could get from the library that was the Lyman , hornady , and lee you may want to do the same.

i chose the turret press it is very nice to have all my does together for a caliber

your bullet choices your on a cast website asking about jacketed bullets , the lee book has good info for both , and good info about casting your own brief but good .
as for your bullets , are they pointed , this is a no no for lever guns with tube magazines the soft polymer tip ones are ok , cast takes a bit more work on the loaders part to watch signs and to make it work well but it allows so much fun changing variables experimenting and learning to fill your mind for years and potentially cost savings lead you cast yourself if you watch your cost of materials can save you a fair amount of money over purchased jacketed bullets

currently my cast loads are costing me 10-12 cents each , if I were buying boxed jacketed bullets from the store they tend to run me 24-30 cents just for the bullet then add 3 cents for primer and 5-9 for powder.


jacketed are easier to load , you just follow the recipe in the book always starting with the starting load and work up slowly , accuracy will rarely be at max when you find accuracy stop increasing it's not worth it the deer or target will not know the difference in a few feet per second , and your brass will last much longer

one thing that is barely mentioned in the lee book is cleaning brass 2 reasons first it is not necessary much of the time if you started with clean new brass and you keep it clean and off the ground , the second is A family friend of the lee's had lead poisoning , and when they inspected his loading equipment they determined the cause his medial , medial separator , and area where he cleaned brass was heavily contaminated with very very fine powdered lead they cleaned up this area , and he stopped vibrating brass with media and he didn't ave any more problems with Lead poisoning.

if your brass does need cleaning de prime it , place it in a jar with a tight sealing lid leaving about 1/3 of the jar empty then pour in 1 teaspoon citric acid per pint of hot water like 140-180* cap and agitate and let sit 15 or so minutes , some let it go longer you can reuse the solution it gets weaker with use but for it's cost i do the brass i have to do that day and pour it down the drain , then rinse the brass with more hot water agitate in the jar then drain and pour out on a shop towel stand them up right in a tray or a what ever you have so they can dry completely the citric acid actually reacts with the brass to give them a corrosion resistance kind of like bluing metal it is important not to use other acids like sulfuric or hydrochloric they leach the zinc from the brass making it weak citric acid can be found in many grocery stores , and bulk food stores , it is used in canning.

bullet sizing , jacketed bullets for 30-30 are sized .308 , the reason you read about us sizing our cast lead bullets larger is because they are softer and need to fill the bore completely with out being to large

the Lee c309-170f is my mold for 30-30 i shoot a marlin 336 micro groove also my mold casts with an alloy of wheel weights and tin at .310 i leave them as cast .310 is usualy ideal for .308 cal rifles like 30-30 .308 30-06

i have been working with reduced loads and have not gas checked my boolits yet and i am getting up into the 1500 fps speeds with unchecked cast boolits


Great tips ! Thanks much !

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Save your money ! Many powder manufacturers publish data on the web and some will send a free condensed loading manual if you ask.

[mroliver77]

I agree on the Lee load book! It has a lot of information on how to load a cartridge. I would read all I could on the subject.

As they say "Walk first, then run." Perfect your loading technique with the jacketed before moving to cast. This will also help polish your barrel.

Learn the PROPER way to clean a gun if you don't already know. Really, I did not but thought I did. Buy a good cleaning rod. I like the Dewey myself. Dont use the crappy aluminum things from a cleaning kit! An internet search will find good cleaning info.


FIRST THE BASICS, THEN MOVE ON.

jAY
F

[btroj]

Bst advice I can give is this- find a safe and experience reloader in your area to give ou some help. You want a person who understand shooting cast in a rifle. One on one, first hand experience will accelerate the learning so much you won't believe it.

[missionary5155]

Good morning & Happy Independence Day
I bought my first 336 back in 66 (a .32 Win Special). Used it for fox & groundhogs in SW Michigan.. Any way you want to find out your rifle´s throat diameter if you are going to shot cast.. especialy plain base cast. The groove diameter will be less so that is no worry. But if you do not fill that throat area with cast boolits you are not going to see the best accuracy potetial of your rifle. Do not be surprised to find out the throat diameter is .310+.
Mike in Peru

[Ed in North Texas]

Save your money ! Many powder manufacturers publish data on the web and some will send a free condensed loading manual if you ask.

You are correct that the powder manufacturers (and other folks) put information on the web. For someone looking for load data, they are great. If the OP only wanted to follow a "recipe", without really having a clue as to why he was doing whatever he was doing, they are perfect. Most on Cast Boolits are well past learning the basics and have no need for the basic info, and descriptions of tools and processes, in a manual. But someone looking for instruction in reloading, with many fairly basic questions, they usually fall pretty short.

[ROCKET]

Learn the PROPER way to clean a gun if you don't already know. Really, I did not but thought I did. Buy a good cleaning rod. I like the Dewey myself. Dont use the crappy aluminum things from a cleaning kit! An internet search will find good cleaning info.


FIRST THE BASICS, THEN MOVE ON.

jAY
F

Dewey was my choice as well.

[ROCKET]

Bst advice I can give is this- find a safe and experience reloader in your area to give ou some help. You want a person who understand shooting cast in a rifle. One on one, first hand experience will accelerate the learning so much you won't believe it.

Agreed.

[nfg]

I've been doing this reloading thing 50 plus years and a Win 94 30-30 was my first "big game" shooter so I know what you're going through. I won't go into some of the faux pas I went through in the beginning, but they were many and constant, NO internet to help and few gunsmiths wanting to waste their time on a grade school phool with NO money.

All the replies are excellent and you should follow them..BUT...go slowly.

FORGET ABOUT RELOADING until you UNDERSTAND all you DON'T KNOW about reloading right now...as you've indicated, you head is splitting.

My sage advice is to beg, borrow, buy or read them at the library or at gun stores and make copious note....all the reloading manuals you can find. Every one of them are full of "how to's" and "what NOT's to do. Spend a few months "learning up" until your head stops hurting...THEN get after it like a hungry 'yote in the chicken pen.

Go to several reloading forums...the basic tenents of reloading refer to ALL reloading of cartridge cases, including the 30-30...then work toward the specifics of reloading the 30-30...the 30-30 cartridge has a few idiosyncracies of it's own to learn and deal with...which you will learn as you learn.

Start with one of the basic components...cases, bullets, primers, powders...and thoroughly work throught the information for each...again MAKING COPIOUS NOTES...you can't and won't remember all the "stuff" and if you jump around you will just confuse youself that much more. I have a 4 ft high stack of reloading books and another stack of magazine articles and reference materials going back to the late 50's. I dig through it constantly because I'm always running into "questions"...most of that information is available on the net, but you have to dig it out.

Be careful of what you read on the net and don't use the data without checking at least two other references...lots of folks put totally dangerous "stuff" out there for who know what reason.

Reloading isn't rocket science, complicated, esoteric or necessarlily a way to save money... but it is inherently DANGEROUS...so read and heed the warnings.

To be perfectly honest...I think it would have been cheaper and simpler to take up
Golf, gambling or auto racing than reloading...I'm always broke building/buying guns and geegaws, reloading components, reloading tools, paying fore hunting trips...and when I was married, bribing my wife with equal value. :lol: :o 8-)

Take your time...this ISN'T an immediate gratification thing...it takes time to learn.

If you just want to hear your shooter go bang then Walmart has lots of inexpensive ammo...I use more Walmart 30-30 than I do my own reloads except for specialized "playing" and I can't really beat the accuracy and velocity of Hornady Leverevolution 30-30 ammo with my own reloads.

Luck

[Papa smurf]

Not many powder companies have datd on cast Boolits . GREENCOUNTRYPETE has it wright and so does Richard Lee , buy or borrow the book. Good Shooting-----------Papa Smurf

[popper]

You have all the components to re-load. Start with the jacketed, then if you want, go to cast. Hodgden has most of the load data that you need (same as your componenets) Get your re-loading process down pat, as well as your shooting.
Make dummy rounds to check OAL and chamber fit. Don't use one-shot lube. Get a recoil pad if you shoot alot. I wash in Dawn and lemi-shine (then dry in sun), lube/size, wash again to clean primer pockets. Trim if needed, load and fire.
I don't have a re-loading book, just use THR, this site, paco Kelly, etc. You won't save much $ to start, but when you get into light loads, carbine bullets, cast bullets, you will have fun.

[uscra112]

What they all said, with the added hint that Microgroove barrels, especially older ones, like boolits sized a bit larger than ordinary rifling does. In the early days of the Microgroove this led legions of people to believe that Microgroove barrels were no good for lead, and nothing could be further from the truth. If your rifle is shooting patterns, try increasing the boolit size by one or two thou and see what happens.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

rocket blend , how is it going , are you getting things straitened out in your head is it starting to make more sense?

[ROCKET]

:Fire:
rocket blend , how is it going , are you getting things straitened out in your head is it starting to make more sense?


It has been a while since I've posted but YES... Everything is making sense and I can report that I am making progress with my reloading venture. I started reading all the the books I got my hands on and I am using a Lee 50th anniversary kit. I just purchased a Lyman Comet from a buddy for 20 bucks to add to my reloading bench and I am having the time of my life. I started with some .308s and 30/30s and now I am reloading 44mags and 45acps.

I am not casting yet, but I will in the near future.... All in all I can really say it is rewarding.

[MarkAD]

any y'all have a good load for 167 grain 30-30 cast bullet . non gas checked

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

any y'all have a good load for 167 grain 30-30 cast bullet . non gas checked

when i doubt use the data for the next heaviest boolit in the book

so for a 167gr use 170 starting data

part of why i recommend the lee book is that it has a hole section on cast and pages of reduce load cast data for 30-30 308 and 30-06

[ROCKET]

Looking for some a reasonable vendor which will sell me some 311291 170gr and some 311315gc 115gr for having some fun at the range. Could I use the same bullets in my pre 64 Winchester ?
Any need for gc if I use 5 gr of w231 with the 115 gr tip?


Western bullets is the only source I found so far. Any other recommendations ?

[popper]

Try Carolina bullets, .311 with GC. Don't know if you can use 231 in a 30-30 case, Unique works. Try the little Hornady or Speer plinker with Unique for fun. No lead to clean out either.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Looking for some a reasonable vendor which will sell me some 311291 170gr and some 311315gc 115gr for having some fun at the range. Could I use the same bullets in my pre 64 Winchester ?
Any need for gc if I use 5 gr of w231 with the 115 gr tip?


Western bullets is the only source I found so far. Any other recommendations ?

if your load will keep it under 1500fps then try it without the gas check

my pinking load in 30-30 should be right around the mid 1400fps range and is fine with no gas check

i hear good things about the 311291 170 or as i believe i have been told the lee copy of it the c309-170rf i use the lee.

either should be fine in most any 30-30 many use the lee boolit in a m94