Not knowing the best place to ask

[44man]

I bought a generator just over a year ago. I filled the tank, ran it and shut the fuel off so it ran dry. I put gas treatment in before.
Most of the gas evaporated from the tank and the carb was full of varnish that carb cleaner would not dissolve. I had to use a little brass brush in the Moto Tool.
I did get it running before pulling the carb, ran poor so I tried to adjust the needle valve. No pressure at all with a small screwdriver and the head snapped off. OK, drill it for a pin and use low temp silver solder. No good, the propane torch melted the threads. I never seen brass melt faster then silver solder.
I made a new needle valve, longer for a spring and "O" ring, from brass. Metric, 4mm x .70.
The question is; what is best? Leave the gas on and the carb full or run it dry?
Now I have to run it again and will be in the same pickle if I need the thing. I might have to start it once a week.

[Mk42gunner]

I bought a generator just over a year ago. I filled the tank, ran it and shut the fuel off so it ran dry. I put gas treatment in before.
Most of the gas evaporated from the tank and the carb was full of varnish that carb cleaner would not dissolve. I had to use a little brass brush in the Moto Tool.
I did get it running before pulling the carb, ran poor so I tried to adjust the needle valve. No pressure at all with a small screwdriver and the head snapped off. OK, drill it for a pin and use low temp silver solder. No good, the propane torch melted the threads. I never seen brass melt faster then silver solder.
I made a new needle valve, longer for a spring and "O" ring, from brass. Metric, 4mm x .70.
The question is; what is best? Leave the gas on and the carb full or run it dry?
Now I have to run it again and will be in the same pickle if I need the thing. I might have to start it once a week.

If you shut the gas off at the tank and ran it dry, there shouldn't have been any gas in the carb to turn to varnish. Check your shutoff valve.

The needle valve breaking then melting before solder seems strange, unless it was made out of bubblegum.

I haven't had good luck leaving gasoline in anything recently, I think the ethanol that is in all gas sold in MO draws too much moisture from the air. I would get it running right, siphon any excess from the tank, then run it out of gas. Store a five gallon can of gas next to the generator, and rotate it frequently (quarterly).

Good luck,

Robert

[EDK]

I'm 5 miles from the Mississippi river and 700 feet elevation, south of St Louis MO. I don't think it ever gets below 40% humidity; generally higher.

Any gasoline I buy...for whatever length of time!...for lawnmowers, chain saw, etc gets STA-BIL (sp?) in the gas can.

I'd put some sort of "anti-seize" on threads that are going to be adjusted with any regularity.

[Finster101]

If you are uisng it for emergency only, I would run what fuel you have in it out. That would probably be good for it and get the oil up to temp as well. I would store it empty. It takes a lot less time to fill it than to pull the carb and mess with to get it running.

[44man]

The gum and varnish was in the very bottom of the bowl. And in the valve at the bottom. There is no way to run it out.
I have it running fine now.
If there was someway to remove every drop of gas before it evaporates, things would be good. Nasty junk is left behind. The bad part is the valve right at the bottom of the bowl.

[Finster101]

If you can remove the bowl, drill and tap it for a small drain plug. You can fabricate a gasket and use a short flat head screw for the plug. Then when you shut the fuel supply off and it stalls simply drain the remaining fuel from the bowl.

[Mal Paso]

Honda. Not only is there a drain valve on the carburetor float bowl, it has it's own little hose through the bottom so as not to spill gas inside. 3000EU:bigsmyl2:

[Dark Helmet]

Try to find a station out in the country that doesn't have to sell the ethanol enhanced fuel. Also, there is a marine grade of Sta-bil that is supposed to be better with ethanol fuels. You could drain the tank and then run the engine dry on a little laquer thinner (no load).

[44man]

I think that is the problem, the ethanol. I need some way to get it out and bottle it! ;)

[man.electric]

Premium fuel up here is all ethanol free and it is all I run in small engines. I also add sea foam to all gas used in my small engines and ever since I have switched I have had great luck with my engines running well.

[Bret4207]

Being a small engine wrench I see this all the time. The drain plug on the fuel bowl is a good idea, so is the Sea Foam. I haven't had good luck with Sta-bil myself. Also be advised the additives and ethanol often cause older fuel lines to deteriorate, coating the filter and interior of carb with a gummy substance different from old fashioned varnish. Watch for that.

If you could swing it the answer would be a premium non ethanol gas like Av gas or some of the marine gas.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I play with small engines also.
For long term storage, over 6 months,
I will run the engine with only a small amount of fuel in the tank,
and than add "Sea foam" to that fuel, it should be about a 50-50 mix.
when I know the carb has the 50-50 mix in it.
I shut off the tank valve and run the carb as dry as possible.
the remaining fuel in the carb shouldn't be an issue if it's half seafoam.

Oh, then I always fill the tank with fresh non-oxygenated gas (if it's a steel tank).
with no air space in a metal tank...it can't rust.
Jon

[waksupi]

I've got a tank of gas that has been sitting quite awhile with Stabil in it. Still smells and looks good. Okay to use?

[Jim]

Waksupi, this is from the FAQ page (http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/faq.aspx#2) of the Sta-Bil site:

Q: How long will STA-BIL Fuel Stabilizer keep fuel fresh?
A:
STA-BIL® Fuel Stabilizer will keep fuel fresh for up to 12 months, guaranteed. Depending on the quality, type and source of the gasoline, as well as storage conditions, doubling the dosage rate of STA-BIL could prolong this storage time to up to 2 years. However, any gasoline stored for more than 12 months will tend to lose volatility (ignitability), which could lead to hard starting or no start conditions after this long storage period. NO additive, STA-BIL included,
will prevent volatility loss in fuel. To reduce fuel volatility loss during storage, we recommend filling your tank at least 95% fulll with fresh fuel and STA-BIL, and store in cool conditions away from direct sunlight if possible. If you forget to stabilize your fuel prior to storage and do experience problems starting your equipment after storage, we recommend trying our StartYourEngines! Fuel System Revitalizer product.

[Changeling]

The gum and varnish was in the very bottom of the bowl. And in the valve at the bottom. There is no way to run it out.
I have it running fine now.
If there was someway to remove every drop of gas before it evaporates, things would be good. Nasty junk is left behind. The bad part is the valve right at the bottom of the bowl.


I've never had a problem with leaving gas in anything except a weed eater!

However about 5 or 6 years ago there was a big scare around here on how leaving gas in cards and tanks would cause big problems so I bought some of that Sta-Bill ( spelling), my neighbor bought another brand.
We both put it in the same day in late fall. The following spring when I went to start my gravely tractor "it wouldn't start", neither would my neighbors tractor. His boat would start then quit over and over!

I dumped the gas and cleaned the carburetor as we did on the neighbors. Neither one of us has had a bit of trouble sense we stopped using the stuff and never will again!

[Bret4207]

I've never had a problem with leaving gas in anything except a weed eater!

However about 5 or 6 years ago there was a big scare around here on how leaving gas in cards and tanks would cause big problems so I bought some of that Sta-Bill ( spelling), my neighbor bought another brand.
We both put it in the same day in late fall. The following spring when I went to start my gravely tractor "it wouldn't start", neither would my neighbors tractor. His boat would start then quit over and over!

I dumped the gas and cleaned the carburetor as we did on the neighbors. Neither one of us has had a bit of trouble sense we stopped using the stuff and never will again!

Ah, another Gravely aficionado! Are we taking an L model as preferred by red blooded, hairy chested men or one of the lesser, more "refined" models? Gotta be half mountain lion and 3/4 bull moose to run a Gravely! Love 'em!

[Bret4207]

I've got a tank of gas that has been sitting quite awhile with Stabil in it. Still smells and looks good. Okay to use?

Ric, like I said, my experience with Sta-bil hasn't been very positive. These days it's best not to let any gas sit more than a couple months if possible. Even with the Sea Foam or Sta-Bil the additives in the blends seem to lose potency and degrade pretty quickly. Plus, the ethanol blends seem to draw moisture. I had some wicked icing problems this past winter, you'd think it' would be just the opposite with the ethanol in there.

[DCM]

+1 on Av. gas or at least premium for small engines. I use Av gas when I can get it and premium the rest of the time.
I used to drain my fuel, but had problems with leaks when I would refill them.
I tried sta-bil with poor results.
I just leave them full of Av. or premium and start them once a month now and have no problems.
The only one that does not get started monthly is my boat during the winter. With premium gas I have had no problems starting it in the spring after pulling the plugs to get as much of the oil out of the cylinders as possible from the fall winterizing.

[waksupi]

I'll dump it on the burn pile.

[blackthorn]

ANY type of gas on a burn pile and you better have a remote ignition source!! Don't even ask how I know!!

[Finster101]

I'll dump it on the burn pile.


ANY type of gas on a burn pile and you better have a remote ignition source!! Don't even ask how I know!!

A flaming arrow sounds like fun.

[waksupi]

ANY type of gas on a burn pile and you better have a remote ignition source!! Don't even ask how I know!!

I only burn the pile a couple times a year, any gas I dump on it has pretty much evaporated by the time it gets lit.

[SciFiJim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
I'll dump it on the burn pile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthorn View Post
ANY type of gas on a burn pile and you better have a remote ignition source!! Don't even ask how I know!!



A flaming arrow sounds like fun.

A mason jar molotov cocktail has worked for me in the past.:redneck:

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've got a tank of gas that has been sitting quite awhile with Stabil in it. Still smells and looks good. Okay to use?

I'd use it...But take note of my rationals below.

some of my small engines (the finicky and hard to repair or ones that I need
to count on) only get the freshest non-oxy gas.
I have a push mower with an older Briggsy that seems to burn anything,
I save older gas for that, that mower also serves as a insecticide fogger :mrgreen:
But if gas smells wrong, I use it for cleaning solution only.
Yeah, I know I'm not suppose to use Gas as a cleaner...but it works so well
and I don't have any sensativities to it...I have friends that do, I get there old gas usually :)

I don't use stabil...it hasn't worked out well for me.

A local autotalk radio host (now retired) that advertised for Seafoam has always said Seafoam is basically 1/3 Isopropyl, 1/3 stoddard solvent, 1/3 high quality penetrating oil. I can't explain why the chemistry works, but it does work for me.

Good Luck,
Jon

[Superfly]

I have a 300 gallon old fuel barrel above ground I get it filled every couple years with get this far fuel 10% ethenol and i have never had a problem i run it in everything summer and winter no problems. But i did find out that i can have non ethenol delivered for about 40 cents per gallon more not sure if i want to or not it is premium gas 91 octane i kinda think if it aint fixed dont break it LOL

Jaime

[geargnasher]

44man, DON'T USE STABIL IN ANYTHING. It's a guaranteed way to ruin your fuel system. Here's why: It pulls the varnish out of the fuel and isolates it so the fuel doesn't lose it's volatility, but guess what happens to the varnish? It gets turned into a gum that settles on the bottom of the tank, low spots in the fuel lines, and carb bowl. This gum is immune to any solvent I've ever tried on it, and if B12 Chemtool or CRC carburetor cleaner won't dissolve it, I don't know what will. I've replaced multiple fuel tanks/pumps/lines due to Sta-Bil gum deposits. The only solution is to drain the tank. Today's fuel is good for about two months at the most in a sealed container. I don't know of any effective way to preserve it, and my customers and I have been trying to find something that works for years.

One more thing, get rid of the ethanol. It's easy to do. If you're buying regular unleaded with "up to" E-10, get a 5-gallon water cooler jug and put a half-gallon of distilled (or tap) water in it. put in 4 gallons of gas, and agitate. I recommend an aquarium pump and bubble stone, or pick it up and shake it if you're physically able. Let it sit for ten minutes and stabilize. You will now have 3-1/2 gallons of gas and one gallon of ethanol/water. Siphon off the gas, add a small dose of HEET (methonal), and you're good to go, no more corrosive fuel. Take your waste water and pour it on your burn pile to evaporate, and don't tell the EPA that it's corn squeezin's are going to see Jesus in the sky.

Gear

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Take your waste water and pour it on your burn pile to evaporate, and don't tell the EPA that it's corn squeezin's are going to see Jesus in the sky. Gear

I thought I was the only one to use that terminolgy "corn squeezin's " lol:D
Jon

[white eagle]

left mine full no ill effects
started rite up as well

[Changeling]

Ah, another Gravely aficionado! Are we taking an L model as preferred by red blooded, hairy chested men or one of the lesser, more "refined" models? Gotta be half mountain lion and 3/4 bull moose to run a Gravely! Love 'em!


Bret it's a model 8122 riding, rear engine, 50 " cut. I absolutely love it. However the clutch needs to be replaced or adjusted and I don't know how to do either! I bought it in 1972 and have never had anything go wrong, except batteries and tires of course .

[Changeling]

Ah, another Gravely aficionado! Are we taking an L model as preferred by red blooded, hairy chested men or one of the lesser, more "refined" models? Gotta be half mountain lion and 3/4 bull moose to run a Gravely! Love 'em!


Bret it's a model 8122 riding, rear engine, 50 " cut. I absolutely love it. However the clutch needs to be replaced or adjusted and I don't know how to do either! I bought it in 1972 I think, and have never had anything go wrong, except batteries and tires of course .

[44man]

44man, DON'T USE STABIL IN ANYTHING. It's a guaranteed way to ruin your fuel system. Here's why: It pulls the varnish out of the fuel and isolates it so the fuel doesn't lose it's volatility, but guess what happens to the varnish? It gets turned into a gum that settles on the bottom of the tank, low spots in the fuel lines, and carb bowl. This gum is immune to any solvent I've ever tried on it, and if B12 Chemtool or CRC carburetor cleaner won't dissolve it, I don't know what will. I've replaced multiple fuel tanks/pumps/lines due to Sta-Bil gum deposits. The only solution is to drain the tank. Today's fuel is good for about two months at the most in a sealed container. I don't know of any effective way to preserve it, and my customers and I have been trying to find something that works for years.

One more thing, get rid of the ethanol. It's easy to do. If you're buying regular unleaded with "up to" E-10, get a 5-gallon water cooler jug and put a half-gallon of distilled (or tap) water in it. put in 4 gallons of gas, and agitate. I recommend an aquarium pump and bubble stone, or pick it up and shake it if you're physically able. Let it sit for ten minutes and stabilize. You will now have 3-1/2 gallons of gas and one gallon of ethanol/water. Siphon off the gas, add a small dose of HEET (methonal), and you're good to go, no more corrosive fuel. Take your waste water and pour it on your burn pile to evaporate, and don't tell the EPA that it's corn squeezin's are going to see Jesus in the sky.

Gear
Thank you, I will quit using the stuff. I have had no problems with any other engine because I don't drain them.
After I got this generator running and put it back in the garage, it was leaking fuel. I pulled the valve from the bottom to check the "O" ring, nothing wrong so I put it back and the leak stopped?????
Lost sqeezin's are the Angels share! :bigsmyl2: I won't let none of mine get away! [smilie=l: They can make their own.
Food coloring in the fuel will show the water. Then you can siphon to the exact level.
I did have trouble with my old, old Troy tiller. Flooded all the time. I found a rubber seal under the needle valve that was no good. I bought a Kit from Cutter's Choice and it had ALL the parts, cheap too. Best place there is if they carry what you need.
Why not dump in a little 2 cycle synthetic oil? My saws sit a long time and always start. Maybe not, my wife's little Mantis tiller had the inlet tube gunked up but the rest of the carb was clean.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Honda. Not only is there a drain valve on the carburetor float bowl, it has it's own little hose through the bottom so as not to spill gas inside. 3000EU:bigsmyl2:

The did that on their motorcycles also , i second adding a valve to the bottom of the bowl

[songdog53]

Have tried all of the things to keep varnish out of carb. but still before i try to crank each year i just drain the bowl and even though have run it dry there is some still some gas left there. My advice is just drain the carb and fill with new fresh gas. Cranks every time, maybe I'm lucky but they just crank even after a couple of years my pressure washer had some in it and drained it and cranked first time and if any doubt spray it good with carb cleaner after draining carb bowl.

[Bret4207]

Bret it's a model 8122 riding, rear engine, 50 " cut. I absolutely love it. However the clutch needs to be replaced or adjusted and I don't know how to do either! I bought it in 1972 I think, and have never had anything go wrong, except batteries and tires of course .

Oooo! I want one! There's a Yahoo Gravely group that is pretty darn good at talking you through the mechanics on this stuff. The format SUX big time, as does everything Yahoo touches, but it's a good resource, and free.

[Bret4207]

Thank you, I will quit using the stuff. I have had no problems with any other engine because I don't drain them.
After I got this generator running and put it back in the garage, it was leaking fuel. I pulled the valve from the bottom to check the "O" ring, nothing wrong so I put it back and the leak stopped?????
Lost sqeezin's are the Angels share! :bigsmyl2: I won't let none of mine get away! [smilie=l: They can make their own.
Food coloring in the fuel will show the water. Then you can siphon to the exact level.
I did have trouble with my old, old Troy tiller. Flooded all the time. I found a rubber seal under the needle valve that was no good. I bought a Kit from Cutter's Choice and it had ALL the parts, cheap too. Best place there is if they carry what you need.
Why not dump in a little 2 cycle synthetic oil? My saws sit a long time and always start. Maybe not, my wife's little Mantis tiller had the inlet tube gunked up but the rest of the carb was clean.

Watch that Mantis! I can almost guarantee the fuel line will turn into a gummy worm and collapse. It's worth the effort of getting a piece of Tygon of the correct diameter and replacing it now, before the alky can do it's harm. How do I know this? Went out to use my Mantis the other day and pulled till I had blisters. Finally fished around in the gas tank and found the line expanded and collapsed and the filter covered in sticky goo. Love the Mantis though!

Some folks are using a little 2 stroke oil as a top end lube. Mixing it 100-1 or so won't hurt and I've used 50-1 without issue... or much smoke either. Another trick is using some ATF in the fuel at 50-1 or higher...well, lower actually, use less. Anyway, ATF has some really good detergents that will clean your system over time and provide some lube while doing it. Of course ATF isn't designed to burn, but I've had no issues so far in 4 strokes.

Wish I could find a 2 stroke oil that smelled like HOPPES!

[firefly1957]

I have not had any trouble in years with my two generators oldest generator is a Onan (2000) in my motor home it gets no stabil and have had no trouble it has sat six months at a time without starting. Generator 2 is a Coleman and it gets Staybil the only trouble it has given me is not fuel related the ignition magneto went on it.

The only engine I have ever had bad gas effect was a OLD atlas Model 1 snow blower that the gas gelled in it cleaned out with carburetor cleaner and ran fine even though it sat well over ten years unused. Another old engine we found in my grandfathers shed was a 1947 Goodyear Seabee 5 H.P. outboard motor which we had not been used in over 30 years it had gas in the tank. However the tank was sealed and the carb was drained I emptied and burned gas put in new gas/oil mix and it started on the first pull! (after I filed corrosion from points)

[Bret4207]

Firefly, you've been exceedingly lucky with your gens. Judging by the traffic on a couple of repair forums I frequent gensets are about the most common rig to see fuel issues in. I've had a hand in fixing 3 in the last 2 weeks, all fuel related, all using ethanol, 2 with Sta-bil. So whatever you're doing, don't stop! You've got something that works, stick with it.

[BeeMan]

My experience runs more along the lines of Firefly. I simply have not had problems with fuel deterioration in small engines, except for one generator. With that generator it was a tossup whether the carb or or the recoil mechanism on the starter would let me down. The carb seemed prone to varnish buildup if I didn't drain the float bowl. Once started it did its job of getting us through hurricane caused power outages.

Success stories include Briggs, Kohler, Tecumseh, and Stihl engines. My Troybilt tiller with a Briggs goes anywhere from a few weeks to 4 or 5 months between uses but invariably starts on the second pull. Based on the horror stories I've heard about fuel problems, I did start using regular Stabil as prevention in the 4 stroke engines a couple years ago. Two strokers get Stihl oil in the premix. I will dump premix if it is more than a couple months old and the engine seems off its performance but that is rare.

(Lucky) BeeMan

edit to add: It is 102 out now and son is mowing. The trimmer will fire up fine when I go out to join him.

[geargnasher]

Thank you, I will quit using the stuff. I have had no problems with any other engine because I don't drain them.
After I got this generator running and put it back in the garage, it was leaking fuel. I pulled the valve from the bottom to check the "O" ring, nothing wrong so I put it back and the leak stopped?????
Lost sqeezin's are the Angels share! :bigsmyl2: I won't let none of mine get away! [smilie=l: They can make their own.
Food coloring in the fuel will show the water. Then you can siphon to the exact level.
I did have trouble with my old, old Troy tiller. Flooded all the time. I found a rubber seal under the needle valve that was no good. I bought a Kit from Cutter's Choice and it had ALL the parts, cheap too. Best place there is if they carry what you need.
Why not dump in a little 2 cycle synthetic oil? My saws sit a long time and always start. Maybe not, my wife's little Mantis tiller had the inlet tube gunked up but the rest of the carb was clean.

I have an old TB tiller, too, monster walk-behind rear-tine model of about 1978 vintage with a Kohler engine. I swear it will pull a building and till concrete! Problem is the rubber on the reverse pully wore out about 20 years ago, and I haven't been able to locate a replacement. It's dead in the water without the "backwards", I'll check Cutter's Choice and see what they have, thanks for the tip!

Just as differences of opinion with shooting and reloading are often due to different experiences from different regions of the country, it's important to realize that fuel formulations are different in different places, but that the new E10 requirements are Federal, and old experiences of "I left it in the barn full of gas for 40 years and it started first pull" are BS with today's fuel. I don't have any facts about Sta-Bil and E10 regular unleaded, but I've been dealing with the effects of Sta-Bil sludge for years. As a matter of fact, I failed to impress this on my father, who has been an art and english professor most of his life and doen't savvy machinery at all, and now his boat fuel tank has fallen victim during a six-month off-season store. Newer model, oil injected, so the gas isn't mixed. He was used to using premix with his last outboard and never needed to worry much about a few months of storage, but he dumped Sta-Bil in this as a preventative measure, hoping it WOULDN'T varnish up, now I get to pull the deck up and hack out the tank for replacement. He brought me a sample of the goo pulled off the bottom of the tank with a stick, it was exactly the color of boiled maple syrup and the consistency of warm pine pitch. Straight Xylene breaks it up, sort of, but doen't thin it.

I feel the best solution possible for an emergency generator is to buy a DIESEL model. Diesel fuel lasts for several years in storage if the proper anti-gelling and algae-cides are used, and lubricity additives like PowerService or Racor are used to compensate for the ultra-low-sulfur fuels of today.

Gear

[44man]

Diesel would be great but I could not pass this one up. 13 HP and 6000 for $400 new from the store down the road. Handle and wheels. I noticed the carb was made in Japan but I have not checked the engine. It runs like a charm.
It is just this stinking gas today. Gov't regs to solve a non existing problem and create more. The alcohol reduces fuel mileage too.
I remember long ago when I fueled planes. The first DC-8 had water injection for power. It had methanol in the water. The black smoke coming out on takeoff was something to see.
All the corn wasted could keep me in booze for a few days! :drinks:

[firefly1957]

Bret As I type this I am here in Massena N.Y. for the next couple days with the inlaws.

I have recently had problems with my 7 year old lawn tractor it would lose power then regain it after idling down PROBLEM was two colors of varnish in fuel filter. I dumped solids and problem solved I always use stybil and marvel's mystery oil in this engine it is used year round with snow thrower. It has also always had 10% ethanol as MICHIGAN LAW has required it at the pump.