Krag Action 45-70

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I was parussing Gun Broker and came across two Krags (one Danish) rebarreled in 45-70. Anyone have any experience with this conversion ? I would think the ammo would have to be kept about to medium pressures.
Mike in Peru [smilie=2:

[MtGun44]

Sounds about right to me. Single locking lug is not something that you want to
be out there testing the pressure limits with.

Bill

[madsenshooter]

The Danes are made so that the guide rib bears on the receiver too. Still it's old metal. 45/70 sounds like the way to go with a Danish Krag, vs forming the proper 8mm. A lot less investment in dies and such.

[uscra112]

The larger head of the .45-70 will produce more bolt thrust per unit pressure, so modesty in loading is certainly indicated.

I'm asking myself why do that to perfectly good Krag? Surely it isn't possible to make a .45-70 feed thru the magazine.....is it? I know mine will feed 8x57R, but I never tried anything bigger. So what you get for converting a Krag is a single shot with a pressure limit, nicht war?

[Char-Gar]

I have not give the subject any deep analytical thought, but the notion of a Krag in 45-70 just gives me the creeps.

[madsenshooter]

In the case of the Dane, there wouldn't be a larger head to increase bolt thrust, the head size is about the same as 45/70, so without a bottleneck, less bolt thrust, given anywhere near equal bullet weights. I wonder if dutch has seen it? It could have been a Danish conversion for hunting, something that ammo was easier to obtain for. As there were a couple 11.7 Danish rounds, it may not be a 45/70 at all, just a case of bubba seeing, "yup they goes in there". I see he pictured some in the magazine, but that doesn't mean they'll feed.

See the 5th and 6th paragraphs down, of post #6 here: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?158947-Single-shot-danish-krag There was a Greenland police unit that used Krags converted to the Danish version of the 45/70.

[missionary5155]

Greetings Thanks everyone & everyone for the article...
I have never contemplated a Krag in 45-70 and it is interesting to see the rifle was chambered in 45-70 (BP or mild smokeless) or something similar. I do know our military tried sevral bolt systems with the BP 45-70 but never got into mass production. I guess if someone had a 30 Gov krag barrel that was ruined it would not be hard to rebarrel to 45 Gov and use up a hoard of 45 BP loaded rounds.
Mike in Peru

[Chicken Thief]

The original 8x58RD was loaded to @2600atm~37700psi. A .323" 196gr spitser going 2525fps.

The bottom of the 8x58 is only @0.6mm~0.023inch smaller than the 45-70.

With very few alterations the magazine can feed theose 45-70's!

[Chicken Thief]

After some small talk with a friend i have desided to make a 5 shot DK Krag-J in 45-70. A donor rifle is on its way and a new LW 45-70 octagon barrel in next to be ordered.

[Potsy]

I like the concept. I'd not take it to Ruger #1 levels but I've no idea why it wouldn't handle Marlin level loads. Trapdoor level loads ain't nothin' to sneeze at.
Cool cartridge in a cool action. Rates very high on the "cool" scale.

[Chicken Thief]

Then good sir how do you rate a m1917 converted from 30-06 to 45-70? 3 down and one in the tube, feeds like a charm :-) Oh and did i mention a big muffler?
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Udstdning/R0010464.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Udstdning/R0010465.jpg
Done by yours truly;-)

[Potsy]

Hog killer!!!!!!!

[missionary5155]

Good morning & Nice outfit Chicken thief ! That is a great idea !
I still think a 45-70 on a Krag better be loaded within the pressure linmits & bolt thrust of a 30-40. I would be real careful thinking a Krag is an = to a Marlin action.
Mike in Peru

[Chicken Thief]

The 8x58RD was loaded to 2600bar/37700psi from the arsenal, so i dont see why loads in the 32-35kpsi range would be a problem in a good Danish action. I'm not stupid and dont want my fillings rattled so it wont see several hundred high pressure shots every year. Just enough to kill big things thoroughly http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Blandet/Smilere/smiley-excited001.gif

Sorry http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Blandet/Smilere/Threadhijacked.gif

[Coffeecup]

I've seen and shot an early US Krag that was converted to .405 Winchester; there didn't seem to be any problems with setback but it always made me a bit cautious when loading ammo. I just had the impression there was no safety margin on the loads.

[frnkeore]

There is a safety margin in the Krag, it's the bolt handle. If you read P.O. Ackley's blow up tests of the Krag. It came out very well. The bolt never left the receiver when the receiver ring blew up.

Frank

[Coffeecup]

Agreed. My concern was more about keeping the rifle in operable condition than in my safety. As long as the rifle continued safe operation, I was fine.

On the other hand, if I messed up my older brother's pet Krag . . . he would have killed me.

[nfg]

You might want to take a look at the 458 American or 450 Marlin instead of the 45-70....that gets rid of the HUGE rim and you can load to a lesser pressure...

An alternative it to turn the 45-70 rim to fit...very easy to do.

I've done a couple 458 Americans, one on a SMLE #2a and a Marlin 336 45-70 barrel rechambered...both are much easier to get to feed easily...both will shoot 45-70's and 458 Americans because the rim gap and belt headspace are the same...the 45-70 does get a bit of a bump at the base of the case, tho' because of the difference in case OD's.

I checked online and found a drawing of the 8x58RD...rim OD is 14.65mm/0.577", case OD in front of rim is 12.75mm/0.501"...so a 45-70 would "just" clean up the chamer IF the chamber wasn't wallowed out...I see you are using a new barrel so that won't be a problem...the belted mag case is ~0.513" in front of the 0.532" OD belt...the "extra" OEM case rim OD wouldn't be a problem at those pressures.

BEFORE you do ANY mucking about, do an online search...there is quite a bit of information about the metallurgy question with the Danish 89, if that is what you are using, but as far as the information I found is concerned you could convert and stay within the 28KPCI pressure rating of the 45-70 and not have a problem.

LUCK

[Uncle R.]

Then good sir how do you rate a m1917 converted from 30-06 to 45-70? 3 down and one in the tube, feeds like a charm :-) Oh and did i mention a big muffler?
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Udstdning/R0010464.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Udstdning/R0010465.jpg
Done by yours truly;-)

Wow - I don't know how others would respond but I think your 1917 45-70 is VERY cool. How did you get it to feed, if I might ask? Did you have to grind or cut the rails or modify the follower? How did you rework the bolt face? Inquiring minds want to know. There are a million Bubba'd 1917s out there and some day I might get lucky and snag one cheap. What a great project a conversion like yours would make, although here in the US the muffler might be more trouble than it's worth. A 1917 .45-70 could pretty much do ANYTHING with the proper load - from plinking to pachyderms. Tell us more!
Thanks!
Uncle R.