Fluxing Nasty WW question...

[41mag]

Ok I have read quite a few post referring to adding sawdust to cover the top of the lead in the pot when pouring and used to flux with, but haven't gone that route just yet.

I have about a third of a bucket of WW that, besides having the normal crud on them , have been subjected to the bucket being full of water at some point in time and have a very substantial amount of rust on them as well.

So, while I might not have on hand some fresh sawdust, I DO have plenty of crushed walnut shell, and in a pinch could probably easily make up a pile of sawdust. Using either one about how much is being used to flux with?

I want to try and smelt these down and keep the lead as good as possible. In doing so are there temperatures that would be best for keeping the allowed metals together better, than say just cranking the burner up and letting what will be, be? Would the sawdust be the best thing for flux in this case or something else?

I have a new lead thermometer, thanks to SwedeNelson, so working to keep it at a certain temperature wouldn't be too much of an issue if that would help. I just don't want to contaminate it with the rust, or the iron oxide dust. I thought of washing them off, but then I really don't want to introduce that element into the mix either. I know for a fact they are dry and have been for a few years.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[jsizemore]

My first bucket of ww was rusty from being in the rain. Smelt and flux as you would normally. Iron oxide will be there with the clips. I use a heartpine stick and candles to flux. Sometimes parafin. Sometimes pine resin from a stump or lighter knot. Whatever will produce carbon when burned.

[Gtek]

Myself, I would not worry about it. Keep pot between 675-700 to keep zinkies out of melt and on top. Swirling and skimming I will get 99+ of top. Gtek

[onondaga]

675 F. is a good melt temp for the wheel weights. That is not hot enough to melt zinc, so if there is any in the mix it will just float up in chunks to be tossed. The tin in the wheel weight alloy will not rapidly oxidize at 675 either and that temp is fine for sawdust fluxing. When the pot is fluid and at 675, toss the sawdust or nutshells on top, stir vigorously and scrape the sides of the pot also, this will cause any rust that stuck to the sides or bottom of your pot to float right up.

I pick out the wheel weight clips with a long tweezers and tap the tweezers on the pot top ledge so any lead goes back into the pot. Pick out the zink ones that didn't melt, tap them and pitch them..All this still at 675 F.

At this point your nut or wood flux will be ash. I use a big spoon and skim the top, pushing the crud to the side of the pot and then rub the crud into the side of the pot with the outside curve of the spoon. I rub it and push it down into the alloy.

AT that point I will use a wax flux and light the smoke to inhibit oxygen and scrape and push the crud down again. My melting pot is a 20 pounder and I use 1/4 teaspoon of bees wax or candle wax and that is plenty for a small fiery fluxing. If any Tin oxides mix back into alloy that is good. but at that point, what doesn't mix back in is skimmed then tossed and I thoroughly skim clean then immediately pour ingots.

675 F is also not usually hot enough to give the rainbow oxides that form on pure lead either, so you will miss the color show at 675 also if your lead is more pure than you expected. Your wheel weight melt should have a clean fluid shiny silver appearance just before you pour your ingots and then they will be nice ingots.

Gary

[felix]

Gary, that was very well written!!! ... felix

[geargnasher]

Indeed, Felix I agree.

Gary, you have a "knack" for communicating small, crucial nuances of technique that is a huge benefit to anyone reading your posts. The explanation of corraling the ashes and scum left after the sawdust has smoldered down and then squishing it against the side of the pot to wring-out the captured droplets of alloy is a peach. I do the same thing, and also do it in my casting pot after a sawdust flux, using a maple stick to scrape the sides of the pot, gather the floaties into a pile, squeeze and massage the pile against the side of the pot, and skim the remaining crud with a teaspoon.

Gear

[41mag]

Awesome, just hat I was looking for thanks a heap.

I can't get it done from that explanation, then I shouldn't be playing with hot stuff.

You folks are great.

[drhall762]

Thank you Gary!

Dave

[Jailer]

Gary, you have a unique talent for conveying information in written form. That explanation was perfect.

I can explain something to someone in great detail, show them how to do it, but putting it down in written form I'm lost.

Nice work.

[onondaga]

Glad I could help. The substantial rust you mention on the wheel weights is really never a problem when melting scrap. It floats like a cork on the melt surface when you stir and scrape.

The powdered rust is very similar in appearance to the tin oxides but the steel rust will not go into alloy with lead when you do the spoon rubbing. It is really no problem, but it is something you should get rid of when you skim as anything left floating on the melt causes specks in your alloy ingots that can show as defects in your boolits.

Wheel weight scrap is a lot easier to melt and clean up to make ingots than range scrap is. Range scrap has a lot of jacketed bullets and pretty much each one has to picked up and tapped empty. Generally the bulk of waste from range scrap is greater than the volume of ingots for me. But the price is right! Wheel weight is much easier and less messy to work with.

You are fortunate to have a thermometer for this job and the rust really won't hurt it all, It just wont look new anymore.

Gary

[badbob454]

yes Gary nicely written , i never thought of tapping the clips with long needle nose pliars ill give it a try

[GaryN]

I always learn something when Gary posts. Thanks.

[GaryN]

P.S. I like your name.

[41mag]

Well I separated the bucket into three stacks, trash, clip on's and stick on's, man what a nasty job.

So I loaded up the pot and fired up the burner, after about the first 10 or so minutes, first I hear ffsssstttt, then I see a couple of steam jets from down in the bottom. So I guess even though they have been inside for over 4 years there is still moisture trapped down inside some of them.

I have an old SS colander that is just right to fit over the top of the pot, so I turned it upside down and covered the pot to allow them to do their thing. I am simply going to sit back and monitor them until the clips start to float.

<<< UPDATE >>>

I never would have thought how simple that was.

Thanks a heap, I separated everything out, and loaded up the pot as mentioned above, waited until there was about a half inch of melt in the bottom then started checking the temps to make sure I wasn't getting above the zinc limit. I kept it right about 575 long enough for it to all melt down so I could start removing the clips.

I found a great tool for this at one of the local stores recently. The problem is I don't remember if it was a Dollar Store, a .99 cent store or at Big Lots. It might even have been form our local Academy store. Just not sure, as I have been through them all over the past couple of months gathering this that and the other for getting this all done up right. Anyway here it is and it is EXCELLENT for removing the clips,

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/P1010214.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/P1010213.jpg

So after a bit of waiting I managed to go from this,
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/P1010212.jpg

to this,
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/P1010215.jpg

I used some candle wax for the first two fluxings, at 600 degrees, then bumped it up to 675 and switched over to the sawdust for the final one before pouring the ingots. I dosed it up with a handful which covered the entire top, let it smolder until it was nothing but embers and ash, then started slowly working it in around the edges of the pot as mentioned above. I ended up getting another spoon and a half of junk out of it.

Thanks folks this was much easier than I had it figured to be. I had mentioned previously that I had a steamer, well turned out two more released in this batch, but I had the colander over the top just in case, but they had not made it into the melt before they spewed.

So hopefully tomorrow morning I will have these made into some nice new boolits.

Thanks again.

[badbob454]

P.S. I like your name.

thanks ...he was a gunfighter in the movie the life and times of judge roy bean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNM64VP2JBw

[bumpo628]

So after a bit of waiting I managed to go from this,
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/P1010212.jpg

to this,
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/P1010215.jpg


It's beeyootiful...[smilie=w:

[geargnasher]

Hey 41mag, where'd you get that KICKA$$ mesh spoon?

Gear

[41mag]

Hey 41mag, where'd you get that KICKA$$ mesh spoon?

Gear

Man I have been tryin hard to remember. I have been all over town in the past couple of months looking for thing to put lube in, use for this or tha, and I simply cannot remember. I will be out and about tomorrow, I'll check a few places that are close by and see if I see them. It might have even been Academy over in the outdoor cooking section.

I sure wished I could remember :lol: Man it's the greatest thing since slide bread for getting the clips out. Just shove it in, let it warm up a bit, and raise it up and shake lightly. Any remaining lead simply falls out like grease off french fires.

You still have to scoop up the remaining dregs off the top but clips and zinc are history really quick.

[mroliver77]

Thats what we are talkin about Mike/TX

Hey guys go to Mikes photo page and look at his boolit collection device! I want one! Mike, where did you pick it up?
J

[geargnasher]

I was just here last night, looks like a natural gas pipeline fitting with one of the flanges cut off, I was wishing I could find one with a 45 degree ell instead of a .90.

Gear

[bdbullets]

I got a strainer simular to yours from menards it was with the turkey fryers. The one I got is stainless steel and has a long wire handle and it works great.