Winchester/Miroku 1886 Rebounding Hammer Fix Tutorial

[steveb]

I used some of the info I got from an article on the Winchester/Miroku 1892 hammer and trigger mods by SAAJim (that also works for the modern Miroku '86's http://web.tampabay.rr.com/jimstags/win1892/index.htm and from other members on the www.leverguns.com board about modifying the rebounding hammer on the Winchester/Miroku 1886's. Also from the thread on Winchester/Miroku 1886 misfires http://leverguns.sixgunner.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23355&whichpage=1 I have been getting misfires from light primer strikes and it was time to castrate the rebounding hammer and fix the terrible trigger pull. This fix does wonders for the action and makes it run much smoother. It is always easier for me to see pictures or watch something being done than just reading about it. This is why I have done this tutorial. Hopefully this will help some of you Miroku 86 owners out.
P.S. This is what I done to MY rifle and it works fine. Your may be different. It is best to go slow. If you happen to screw it up, its your fault and not mine!
On to the hammer modification.[:)]

STEP ONE:
Remove the upper and lower tang screws and pull buttstock off. The upper tang screw goes all the way through and screws in the bottom tang. The lower tang screw is a wood screw.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/86%20EL/86%20%20hammer%20mod/castration1.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/86%20EL/86%20%20hammer%20mod/castration2.jpg

With the buttstock removed you can see the Hammer Strut and mainspring. The culprit is the lower leg of the Hammer Strut pushing against the the hammer causing it to rebound or bounce back.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/86%20EL/86%20%20hammer%20mod/casration4hammerstrutmainspring.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/86%20EL/86%20%20hammer%20mod/castration5.jpg

STEP TWO:
With the action closed pull hammer to rear and remove the receiver (hammer) screw. You may want to captivate the mainspring before removing the receiver (hammer) screw. This coil mainspring is strong and may fly to the next room if not held in place. You can use a paper clip or similar item to hold the mainspring in place.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/86%20EL/86%20%20hammer%20mod/castration6.jpg

STEP THREE:
After removing the receiver (hammer) screw, open the lever and pull the lower tang straight back out of the receiver. At this time the hammer will drop out as well. Pictured below is the hammer and lower tang assembly.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/86%20EL/86%20%20hammer%20mod/castration7.jpg
Take the mainspring off the hammer strut.(Be careful, as this spring is strong and under tension)

[steveb]

STEP FOUR: MODIFYING THE HAMMER STRUT:
You want to cut off part of the lower leg of the hammer strut so it doesn’t touch the hammer when the hammer is all the way down . I cut it off to approximately here and rounded off and polished the lower leg to remove any sharp edges where I cut it. The top leg of the hammer strut was already polished from the factory so I left it be. At this point the rebounding feature is GONE!
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/86%20EL/86%20%20hammer%20mod/castration8.jpg

As far as the mainspring goes I chose to cut a few coils off to lighten it some. If you do this it is best to go slow and have a replacement spring handy just in case. I cut three coils off the mainspring( THIS IS WHAT WORKED WITH MY GUN SO IT IS BEST TO CUT OFF A LITTLE AT A TIME IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS!!!)but did so in two different tear downs and it works great with no light primer strikes. Again if you elect to do this it is best to go slow.

STEP FIVE: REASSEMBLY

An easy way to captivate the mainspring for reasembly is to install the hammer in lower tang out side the receiver then insert the reciever (hammer) screw into lower tang, then allow the hammer to fall as far forward as possible and insert the spring and guide into the lower tang.Pull the hammer back compressing the spring. Once the mainspring is captivated pull out the Reciever screw out of lower tang. (thanks for the tip Griff!) Also I found it easier to look at the end or back of the receiver when putting the hammer and lower tang back in to help line up with the carrier. I used a punch to help line up the hammer, carrier, and inserted the receiver (hammer) screw. This modification helped tremendously in smoothing the action, and lightening the trigger pull.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/86%20EL/86%20%20hammer%20mod/castration9.jpg

Heres the finished product.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/86%20EL/86%20%20hammer%20mod/castration10.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/86%20EL/86%20%20hammer%20mod/castration11.jpg

[Nueces]

Wow, steveb, NICE job. Well done. Great photos, too.

If you don't mind me pickin' your head a little, now that you've been inside the receiver, how does that saddle ring attach. My Browning SRC has a steel one and the clatter alerts sentries.

Mark

[MT Gianni]

Nueces, a quick but ugly fix of a rattling saddle ring is a couple of wraps of black tape. Trim it down to 1/4" across and a few wraps will quiet it for social and hunting situations. Gianni.

[waksupi]

I use a buckskin thong clove hitched through the ring. Quiets things down pretty well.

[steveb]

Wow, steveb, NICE job. Well done. Great photos, too.

If you don't mind me pickin' your head a little, now that you've been inside the receiver, how does that saddle ring attach. My Browning SRC has a steel one and the clatter alerts sentries.

Mark

It was put on after the fact(not by me) and is not factory. Luckily, mine just screws in. I am going to replace it with a filler screw as I never liked saddle rings to begin with.

[mtngunr]

I second the kudos on the great photos and explaination.....for those who enjoy rummaging through magazines, oftentimes just to rummage, back a couple of years ago or so, Rifle or Handloader did a feature article (by Scoville?) regarding the same problems and fixes.....in today's legal climate, I was flat amazed that any magazine would have the courage to print and promote directions for messing with a modern firearm safety mechanism.....I am still impressed.....

[saunaking]

I just purchased an 1886 extra light and shot it for the first time yesterday. The hammer is a problem, no doubt. I had one mis-fire out of the 20 rounds shot. Part of what brought me to this website was my Google search to find a "fix" for this.

Hopefully this isn't too old of a thread and hasn't been beat to death too much.

My question is for Steveb: what did you use to cut the metal you removed from the hammer strut? Looking at your pictures (really nice job on these), it appears that you cut off a little more than half of the lower strut...is that about right?

[MtGun44]

The other issue with the Extra-Lite is the stupid firing pin lock. Mine was badly timed and
did not release properly until the plunger was full depressed. This was in addition to the
energy lost in the rebounding hammer.

I tried to replace the firing pin with a regular 1886 firing pin but they changed the design
so an original design solid firing pin will not fit.

Bill

[smokinbarrel]

You can also do this modification without removing the lower tang from frame. Just remove the base bracket of the mainspring ( the small screw up through tang) you also have to drive out the small pin in lower tang. This is also a leaf spring that takes up trigger slack. Cut lower strut with a dremel cut-off wheel, it is quite hard. Re assembly requires a little pressure on leaf spring to get pin back in over it. This is how I have done several 92.

[GMW]

Is there a fix for the 1895 also? I have a new one and was just wondering.

[rbertalotto]

Strange that this thread was resurrected after so many years!

I just dropped my son and his wife off at the airport for their plane ride back to California. On the way home I stopped into a gun shop and they had hours before taken in an unfired, 1886 Winchester TakeDown. Box papers everything. Like new. Consignment deal. They wanted $1295. I made a stupid offer and the owner accepted it! Needed Christmas Bills money.......

But he had a gunsmith remove the tang safety and installed a nice tang sight. I'm fine with this as I hated the tang safety.

I want to remove the rebound function on the hammer. But I understand if you simply do what Steve did, there is no "half-cock" safety. The rifle will fire from half cock.

Can someone verify this.

Love the new rifle, can't wait to shoot it!

[MtGun44]

No half cock from memory, far away from the gun right.

Bill

[timkelley]

Is this a sticky somewhere?

[rbertalotto]

I removed the rebound on my 1886.........Lightened the trigger return spring.

On full cock it has a 3.5 pound trigger pull. On half cock it is a bit over ten pounds and with short travel it sets off a primer 50% of the time.

I'll be ordering the browning hammer and trigger.........

[MtGun44]

Don't assume they will fit! I bought a Browning firing pin and it is intentionally
redesigned to NOT work. No knowledge of the hammer and trigger, but I would not
be surprised if they did the same thing.

At minimum, the thumb safety will not work without cutting a slot in the hammer.

Bill

[rbertalotto]

One of the main reason for ordering the replacement parts is to remove the tang safety (for a tang sight or some folks weld up the hole and reblue) and go back to a half cock safety which is more familiar to lots of lever action shooters.

[Canuck Bob]

I think Steve from Steves Gunz welded up one and it came out nice. It was an 1886 by memory over on Paco's site.

I like the tang safety so its not an issue for my 92. The rebounder has to go though. A lot of folks feel the ejector spring is much too strong on these rifles. It flattens my thin 32-20 brass horribly. Currently I hold the empty case down when I extract. Gotta fix that soon as well. My trigger system is loaded with a lot of little springs and parts that will get changed somehow. I'm too cheap to buy Browning parts so Devcon Steel Epoxy might be involved.

[Greg S]

Resurrecting this one as it appears the original link by SAA Jim has gone dead. I've done this mod on a winnie 94AE Trapper in 45 Colt and several Mirouko 1892s with good results. The main spring can be reduced on this mod substantially to reduce trigger pull and still maintain sufficient impact for magnum pistol and rifle primers. Note that the new lawyer trigger system uses an inertia fp along with the obvious inertia hammer. G

[Loudenboomer]

It's a good thread to resurrect. I did steveb's tune on my extralite japchester 86. No more cold weather misfires and a better trigger pull to boot.

[bigted]

if ... when you have the mainspring strut out clipping the offending spur off ... why not just use the cutoff wheel on the dremel to widen and deepen the half notch in the hammer to a safe notch that can NOT be overcome with a good hard trigger squeeze. then it is as safe as any lever in the world and like the many hundreds of thousands built before all this lawyer modified lever actions came into being fighting a litigious public.

impressed with that word huh ... just had the flu and not back in me right mind yet.

[hpdrifter]

Good pictoral. Hope you don't mind a little constructive criticism.

You went to great detail on the tang screw, showing it goes all the way thru; picture included. I assume(!!!) this was for people that might not be real familiar with the Winchester. So, when you described or said, you might want to capture(?) the strut, why not say how? Some folks may not known what that little hole in the rear of the strut is for. Tell them to stick a pin in that hole.

[Loudenboomer]

The picture shows a paper clip. That's all it takes.

[JeffWarner]

Anyone have a copy of the original 1892 hammer/trigger mods by SAA Jim? While the hammer strut cutting instructions are around the internet, another old form post (shooter.com) talks about modification to the two piece trigger/sear to fuse them into a single piece to get around the one lawyer added item and offer a less gritty trigger pull. The instructions are pretty vague and the thread participants are long gone. The same concept should apply to the 1886 and might still be around in another form. Thanks



I used some of the info I got from an article on the Winchester/Miroku 1892 hammer and trigger mods by SAAJim (that also works for the modern Miroku '86's http://web.tampabay.rr.com/jimstags/win1892/index.htm and from other members on the www.leverguns.com (http://www.leverguns.com) board about modifying the rebounding hammer on the Winchester/Miroku 1886's. Also from the thread on Winchester/Miroku 1886 misfires http://leverguns.sixgunner.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23355&whichpage=1 I have been getting misfires from light primer strikes and it was time to castrate the rebounding hammer and fix the terrible trigger pull. This fix does wonders for the action and makes it run much smoother. It is always easier for me to see pictures or watch something being done than just reading about it. This is why I have done this tutorial. Hopefully this will help some of you Miroku 86 owners out.

[jstanfield103]

OK, hate to resurrect this thread again. But I do have a question.
Once the rebounding hammer is fixed in the 1892, will the safety on the tang still work as designed too? Will you have to pull the hammer back just a tad to engage it or will it be like it was from the factory as far as the safety is concerned ?

Thanks, I want to remove the rebounding hammer but still like the safety since there will be no half cock. Don't want to spend the money on the Browning hammer and trigger.

[jstanfield103]

OK, answered my own question. I took my 1892 apart and removed the leg for the rebounding hammer (thanks for the write up) works great. But tang safety does still work, just works a little different. If the hammer is down on the firing pin and you place the safety on. It does go on safe but the hammer remains against the firing pin and can not be cocked. If on the half cock or full cock and the safety is placed in the safe position it will allow the hammer to fall but the hammer does not contact the firing pin. If you put the hammer in half cock with the safety left in the fire position and the trigger is pulled the rifle will fire from the half cock position.

I really like the rebound hammer done away with and that the safety still works. Just have to make sure that it is at least on half cock when it is placed in safe for the rifle to be safe and not able to fire.

[indian joe]

OK, answered my own question. I took my 1892 apart and removed the leg for the rebounding hammer (thanks for the write up) works great. But tang safety does still work, just works a little different. If the hammer is down on the firing pin and you place the safety on. It does go on safe but the hammer remains against the firing pin and can not be cocked. If on the half cock or full cock and the safety is placed in the safe position it will allow the hammer to fall but the hammer does not contact the firing pin. If you put the hammer in half cock with the safety left in the fire position and the trigger is pulled the rifle will fire from the half cock position.

I really like the rebound hammer done away with and that the safety still works. Just have to make sure that it is at least on half cock when it is placed in safe for the rifle to be safe and not able to fire.

FWIW
I have a Browning (Miruko) Model 71 from the original run they made late 1980's (?) They are different than what was shown in this thread - coil spring yes, rebound hammer strut no, half cock notch yes, --- the rebound feature was built into the bolt with a three piece firing pin and some other bits - mine suffered light strike = failure to fire and was altered.
(just in case someone thinks - like I did - that this excellent tutorial applies to the 71 clone - it dont - to mine anyway)

[jstanfield103]

indian joe,
Thanks for the comment. So it maybe just the Winchester Miroku models this works on.

[indian joe]

indian joe,
Thanks for the comment. So it maybe just the Winchester Miroku models this works on.

You are probably right I think
Miroku/Browning made a run of 1886's before the model 71 (that would be in the mid 1980's) - I have not seen the innards of one of those 1886's but its likely they are not the same as the new ones (Winchester branded) .
I just bought a Chiappa 1886 and they are a copy of the original Winchester internally.

[M-Tecs]

You are probably right I think
Miroku/Browning made a run of 1886's before the model 71 (that would be in the mid 1980's) - I have not seen the innards of one of those 1886's but its likely they are not the same as the new ones (Winchester branded) .
I just bought a Chiappa 1886 and they are a copy of the original Winchester internally.


I have a Browning 1886 rifle and a saddle ring carbine. Never had any issues so I never took them apart. I have no idea how close to original they are. I picked up the saddle ring cheap due to some deep stock scratches. Just picked up a blank that I plan on using to replace them. When I do I will do a complete teardown. Hopefully this summer.

[WehrmannsGeweher]

Simple fix:
Sell it
Buy a Browning

[jstanfield103]

No way, The only problem I had with it was the rebounding hammer. It really was not a problem as of yet. Just wanted to head it off before it ever did cause a problem. One thing I will say is that the Browning and Winchesters are made better than the post 1964 Winchesters were.

[hylander]

So I just finished doing the rebound delete, Not impressed.
Does not really act any different, other than not bouncing back.
Also took a coil out of the main spring, polished the sear and hammer, trigger is still #5.25
So basically I gain nothing.
There is two hours of my life I wish I wish I had back :sad:

[jstanfield103]

Hylander,
Sorry to hear that. Mine felt better to me but I really don't have anything to measure it with. I just wanted the rebounding hammer deleted to prevent light strikes, Which I had not had a problem with before I did the delete, just a preventive measure.

[hylander]

Hylander,
Sorry to hear that. Mine felt better to me but I really don't have anything to measure it with. I just wanted the rebounding hammer deleted to prevent light strikes, Which I had not had a problem with before I did the delete, just a preventive measure.

Yep, I had no issues with it the way it was.
I was just hoping the trigger pull would lighten up, however the delete made no difference at all.
Also polished the hammer engagement, but that did nothing as well :-(
I did notice that the trigger return spring is very heavy though, however I have not found any fix for that yet.
There are no replacement springs for this rifle that I can find.
I doubt it but wonder if Browning would send me a factory replacement trigger spring and hammer strut, then I would try to modify.
the originals

[missionary5155]

Hylander
Did you check the tension on the trigger spring ? If you have a strong trigger spring cutting just the hammer spring coil will not help you much.

Hold the hammer back with your thumb and measure the trigger spring pull all by itself. Should be about 3 pounds all by itself if you are looking for a 3.5 # pull.
We have at least 5 original 1892's and they all had at least a 5# trigger. Those are easily adjusted just by cleaning and loosening the screw that holds the trigger spring in contact with the trigger.

Mike in Peru

[hylander]

Hylander
Did you check the tension on the trigger spring ? If you have a strong trigger spring cutting just the hammer spring coil will not help you much.

Hold the hammer back with your thumb and measure the trigger spring pull all by itself. Should be about 3 pounds all by itself if you are looking for a 3.5 # pull.
We have at least 5 original 1892's and they all had at least a 5# trigger. Those are easily adjusted just by cleaning and loosening the screw that holds the trigger spring in contact with the trigger.

Mike in Peru

Yes, trigger spring measures #3.
However on the Miroku 92's the trigger spring is also the strut support that holds the hammer strut.
No way to adjust aside from heat and bend the end that contacts the trigger.
I did just the hammer strut, spring and strut support.
I will try to modify the new strut support.

[FergusonTO35]

I have a pawn shop rescue 94 AE that is coming along nicely but suffers from occasional light strikes. Already disassembled, cleaned, and lubed the action. Overall the rifle doesn't look like it has been fired much. Anybody tried shortening the lower legs of the hammer strut on the 94? It is slightly different than the others as it has two rebound legs on the strut side by side.

[texasloader]

My 1886 has some slack in the bolt, I think the grooves in the receiver are worn. I was thinking of shimming it with some thin brass stock. Any thoughts?

[mart]

I know I saw this a few months ago when I got my Miroku 1886 and the pictures were clear. Now they are blurry with a photo bucket watermark over them. What does a fellow have to do to see them clearly again. I'd like to do this conversion but would like to have the pictures for a reference. I tried turning off my ad blocker but that didn't help. Any thoughts guys. Thanks.

[M-Tecs]

Not sure but I believe the OP closed the thread on the site.

[veeman]

He probably didn't pay the fee now needed for photobucket, so they blurred it. I guessing.

[ndcowboy]

I'm digging up an old thread here, but THANK YOU!
I brought home an 1886 yesterday from a gun show and had it go click, click, click when it should have been going bang, bang, bang. Fix was easy, but getting the hammer screw back in with everything lined up was tough. Thank goodness it is cold out and I had time.
Anyway, thanks again. Rifle shoots great now.

[prs]

This will again BTT this worthy thread. I replaced the hammer spring on my new Miroku Browning Arm Company "Winchester" 1892 with a stock Ruger Black Hawk revolver hammer spring trimmed to the match the lenght of the spring in my '92. Action feels great and trigger feels better, but I got 1 light stike failure to fire and 1 failure to feed out of 26 rounds. So, I will nix the rebounding hammer and maybe increase the half cock notch.

prs

[Vaughn]

Hi All,
I live in Australia so it was easier to get a Winchester rather than the Browning,
I removed the rebound feature
I ordered a new Browning Hammer and Trigger, I made up a new mainspring strut from Stainless steel and polished it and Yes it has a pin hole to hold the paper clip ,
I can confirm that the trigger is the same as the 92 trigger (with a 3mm pin hole)
I flattened out the trigger spring as outlined in various posts and honed it thinner and polished it. My Mainspring strut entirely replaces the original and sits within the existing original spring retaining feature. I altered the safety, as it will not function with the Browning hammer, just not possible. I am considering tig welding the tang up and re-bluing.

I honed the new trigger ever so lightly on a diamond wheel in the lathe with the trigger clamped in the toolpost
Using a new super bright Led torch and mag glasses I set the sear to the correct angle and lightly honed it just enough to ensure it was true.
I used the original hammer spring un-shortened . Trigger is crisp about 2 to 3 pound , would not want it any lighter
I brought a 458 Throating reamer and tickled the throat just enough so that a new 45/70 loaded with a Speer 405 FN will enter the chamber without hang up. I was using some old winchester Staynless primers and 1 in 30 misfired they are Very hard, so switched to Federal and 100 % reliability. all I have left now is to remove the firing pin polish off any burrs / clean out any old lube and reoil. I am surprised that given the number of complaints nobody has made a replacement firing pin. I will not worry about the pin apart from cleaning and polishing and reoiling at this stage.
I also had a new shotgun style replacement 1886 but stock blank sent out from USA. Because of the changes from leaf spring to coil spring, I had to inlay a piece of suitable timber but this is unseen with the tangs in place. It has a decelerator recoil pad in place
I would hate to fire this with full loads of Varget without the recoil pad at 1840 FPS 400 Gr Pill this load is quite punishing. Varget is the powder of choice for heavy loads as pressure is under 30 000 PSI
Sincerely Vaughn G

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=Vaughn;5048151]Hi All,
I live in Australia so it was easier to get a Winchester rather than the Browning,
I am surprised that given the number of complaints nobody has made a replacement firing pin. I will not worry about the pin apart from cleaning and polishing and reoiling at this stage.

Another Aussie here - I have a Chiappa 86 and a Browning model 71

The Browning is late 1990's make (half cock notch and no tang safety) it had the lawyer inspired rebounding firing pin.
I have converted it to solid
There were a couple of places advertising new made solid firing pins a while back - Winchester Bob I think and one other at least - around $30-$35 US money plus shipping. Some places will not ship parts downunder - have to go through Brownells or Midway Aussie dealers
The conversion was not so hard to do

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=ndcowboy;4809923]I'm digging up an old thread here, but THANK YOU!
I brought home an 1886 yesterday from a gun show and had it go click, click, click when it should have been going bang, bang, bang. Fix was easy, but getting the hammer screw back in with everything lined up was tough.

That hammer screw will always be stubborn unless you take the screw out of the lifter spring and that was a one sod of a thing in my Browning - needs a right angle screwdriver from memory (they should have used a hex head screw) -- tension from the lifter spring pushes stuff out of align enough that the hammer screw wont enter the threads

[prs]

I did nix the rebound feature, but did not mess with the half cock notch, yet. Several hundreds of rounds without any failures. I am still undecided about replacing the safety with a blank of silver or pewter or modifying the half cock notch.

Vaughn, reads like you have done a fine job. If you do weld and blue give us a look.

prs

[W.R.Buchanan]

Do make sure that your half cock actually works after doing this. On Marlin 39AS's the half cock notch is not angled right to act as a safety and if you pull the trigger it will allow the hammer to drop.

I did my gun that way because the Rebounding Hammer went "Boing" everytime I pulled the trigger and drove me nutz. The hammer would drop if you pulled the trigger when on the half cock notch. Had to put a new stock hammer strut back in it before I sold the gun. So the "boing" was back.

These guns had the push button hammer block safety, so I guess they figured they didn't need the half cock safety. I really don't see why they felt it necessary to change the hammer as it would have been fine to have both safeties.

Don't know if yours work that way.

Randy

[prs]

Randy, my Miroku '92 is just as you described and after the mod the half cock will fail if the trigger is pulled very firmly. For now, I am going to restore the original function with new parts that I purchased. I intend to keep the rifle and I will work with the spring strength to assure reliable function at the sacrifice of somewhat heavier tribber pull. I am backing away from modifying the half cock notch for now.

Rooster