Pete's poor man lube or faliure 0001

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

well with all you so you want to make a lube , and recipes , and such i had to try it

however being a poor man , at the moment i was some what limited in ingredients and what i could buy

so with a total budget of $0.00 i set forth to make a lube

16oz (hole can) Quaker state wheel bearing high temp formulated for use with disk brakes drop temp 525*f

1/4 cup marvel mystery oil
1/4 cup ATF universal type
a little bit of the wife's home made soap that was starting to separate

for wax i had a bag of Christmas candles in an over powering evergreen scent i started by weighing out 2 pounds what ever is left when i get done i will weigh and subtract from the 2 pounds or if i need more i will weight that and keep track

heated the grease first then added atf and marvel , then added the candle and fished the wick out when it was melted tried melting a 3oz bar of soap but it didn't melt so well so i fished probably 2 oz of unmelted soap back out

so the wax is less than ideal but so far it has mixed well the batch is about 2 quarts right now and cooling i will be adjusting the final hardness in reheats as needed

I was inspired by several peoples posts that they had used toilet bowl rings , candles , paraffin and come out with a lube that worked decent medium speeds

if this becomes lube failure 0001 i will have lost no money in it.

the pot was a dollar something at good will a while back and can be reused for other lube projects

the grease vintage 1995 was given me buy a friend who moved several years ago unopened -and wasn't likely to see use
well who doesn't have some open atf and marvel in the garage

and the candles had been collected to make fire starters but i will get more my mother and mother in law like to buy candles then find they don't like the smell , and i have no problem starting the fire every day in winter with just scrap paper


i have a small tube of nra alox bees wax but currently i am smearing it on each bullet filling the grooves by finger as i make my test loads , this is no fun but it works
i work up a load with the lee nra 50/5 then when i have it were i want it i try pan lubing with my home brew thats the plan

i have a couple promising looking loads i need to test at a longer distance but they are mild and accurate at 25 yards with factory iron sights on a 336

plan is to run it in 30-30 with loads 1300 - 1800 fps and be able to pan lube but i needed something i could make enough of to fill up the pan

[btroj]

Any particular reason you started with a huge batch rather than a few ounces of each? Start small so you have enough stuff left in case this need tweaking. I understand the need to have enough to pan lube but experimenting is often best done on a small scale to start.
I am certainly no lube expert, I buy them or use an existing recipe, but it sure looks like you have an awful lot of slick stuff in there.
I hope your lube works out, you sure have ALOT of it. Let us know how it does.

[gray wolf]

I am interested to hear about .0002

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

btroj- you make a point , but measuring seamed easy this way , i will take that into consideration on my next batches.

i was surprised how stiff it hardened up this morning , really thought i was going to need more wax i will have to lube some tonight and see how it sticks to them.

grey wolf - optimism - i like that it may get many revisions but that's part of the fun right

[gray wolf]

Absolutely--It's all the fun, and fun is what it's all about.
I thought your lube might be soft, but see! I was wrong. So good on you.
Perhaps we will only see .0001 and a 1/2
It was the way you put it that made me chuckle, .0001

Sam

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Grey wolf , the company i work for makes software and hardware , we go thru rev numbers like my kids go thru toilet paper
0001 WAS being optimistic in my world!

glad i can get a chuckle

[longbow]

GREENCOUNTYPETE:

I made a very simple lube that has worked extremely well for me so far, though I haven't pushed it real hard ~ maybe 2000 FPS.

I have used it in both .44 mag rifle and .303 with not a spec of leading.

Basic recipe is similar to yours but maybe simpler:

- approx. 1 part by volume Ivory soap grated
- approx. 3 parts by volume Lucas Red 'N Tacky Grease
- approx. 4 times the above mixed volume of paraffin wax

This came out quite hard and was intended for "hot tumble lubing" which worked but I now use it to pan lube and use cookie cutter to remove boolits.

It wasn't quite as sticky as I wanted so I added some Bardahl oil treatment to soften it and make it sticky, and not much at that but it did soften up the lube and made it way more sticky. Still works the same.

You might also look up Ben's Red too. Ben came up with a very similar lube that has worked well for him.

You may have to adjust yours some for hardness/stickiness but there is no reason it shouldn't work. If you have problems then use small portions of it to mix up with more grease or Vaseline to soften it then try it out. Once you have what you want you can mix up the rest.

Since I use mine for pan lubing, I find that the grease stays a little jelly like and I would like it more fluid so next time I will try using a heavy oil instead of grease. It works and lubes well but I would like it to flow better when it melts.

Longbow

[geargnasher]

I'll bet it works.

Gear

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

long bow yours is actually the recipe that inspired me to try this one the most , yours and ben's red

but yours was written in my notes over a month ago when i first saw it and thought i could do that

i had been reading thru recipes for days looking over all the ingredients

when i saw that you got away with using the much less expensive paraffin i was all ready to make yours
i even have several pounds of paraffin wax my wife uses for fabric dyeing , but i figured if i was going to have to use the Quaker grease and while fine grease the reason it wasn't going to get used any where else is my grease gun has Lucas red and tacky in it

but budget issues and a spending freeze caused me to think go complete low dollar and see if it works

so far so good pan lubed some up i put them in the freezer to harden them up that made it almost to hard to push my piece of brass cutter thru but after it warmed up a but it was just firm

it is solid at 90 degrees maybe a little soft it is supposed to be even hotter here Friday so i will leave some in the sun ans see if it runs but with the amount of heat i needed to melt it i don't think it will , i will just get soft but i expect it will hold it's shape after seeing it at 90 today then heating it up it tool a long time to melt .

[mroliver77]

Try grating some more of the sop and melt it in if you get separation. When I first tried making lube I put anything and everything in it that resembled lube or wax including Lee liquid earwax. It worked ok for pistol and light rifle loads. It did bleed out oils. It did separate some while cooling. Prolly got lube induced fliers etc. Did NOT get leading!

After learning about and making Felix lube I used some of the polymerized liquid and ivory soap to upgrade my lube. I mixed all my previous lube together with the Felix juice. It made a decent lube I stored it and somehow the lid disappeared and it got a bunch of dirt, straw, bird poop etc on it. I use it for flux now.
I bet yours works if boolit fit is proper. I mean like automobile undercoating works. your lube aughta too.;)

Jay

[milprileb]

I understand but I don't understand why you home brew lube.

It must be the sorcery of it all because White Label sells lube for
a price that is just cost effective for me.

However, the black arts of lube making must be the draw that makes
you guys pursue this and I wish you luck.

I will submit: making lube is far more logical than fertilizing the lawn
so it grows more and needs more mowing: all of which decreases time
to cast and shoot more.

[ditchtiger]

What has worked for me is equal parts of white lithium grease and candle wax.
Heated at low temp. and stir until cool.
Used in .357 mag. and .44 mag. with no leading.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I will submit: making lube is far more logical than fertilizing the lawn
so it grows more and needs more mowing: all of which decreases time
to cast and shoot more.

now ain't that the truth , never use the stuff, i also set the mower deck a little higher , and try to let it go to seed in the spring before i start mowing

grass is a plant , plants want to seed after they go to seed they slow down, leaving it longer lets the plant do it's photosynthesis it takes green leaf or grass blade to do the process why continually scalped short grass turns yellowish , it is putting the energy it should be putting into stronger roots into growing faster , to try and get enough leaf surface to capture the suns energy for photosynthesis

so you mow more often , have yellowish grass , more weeds get in , and all this leads to less range time

[Finster101]

You can buy White label for a very good price. I got samples and had intended on purchasing some carnuba red. Then about 10lbs of free beeswax fell into my lap and I was able to acquire a 20lb cake of paraffin wax. I'm going to try it. The cost is right.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I test drove the lube this evening , results with my light target load were very good one large elongated hole from 10 rounds no flyers and a very clean bore , this should be doing right around 1300 fps from the 30-30

it is a dirty load combustion isn't as clean as it is at higher pressures but it is so much fun for punching paper with extremely light recoil

it may have been me doing my part but it shot better than the Lee nra 50/50 bees wax alox
i will need to lube up more and get more test groups.

i also want to try it on a little hotter load and see how it does

[runfiveslittlegirl]

a little vaseline will soften that lube up for you.....

[longbow]

I think I mentioned that my original batch of lube was quite hard as my intention was to make a lube for "hot" tumble lubing by melting then rolling warmed boolits in it and it did work for that but I found it easier to pan lube by using a cookie cutter.

I just let it set up until it is firm but still warm then cut 'em out. It works fine for me.

After I decided to add some Bardahl oil treatment (not much) which softened some and made it stickier. I noticed no difference in performance.

I am betting that runfiveslittlegirl's advice of Vaseline would do just fine as well.

What I noticed about my lube was how slick it is to the touch and I think the soap does that.

Anyway, so far it is working well for me. I am not going to claim vastly improved accuracy or being able to beat everyone else by any means. Quite simply, I am getting accuracy as good or better than other lubes I have tried and no leading.

I strongly suspect your lube will work just fine as is or with minor "adjustment" to suit velocities.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

they cut just fine in the mid 70 degree house it was only fresh out of the freezer that they were difficult to cut

i am going to pan lube up a bunch and load 10 with each increase of powder till i get 25 gr and see how they do at 17 19 21 23 and 25 grains i should probably do a batch with filler and a batch without for each charge and see if i can tell a difference

[sig2009]

I'm going to try your recipe!

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I'm going to try your recipe!


i would try ben's red or longbows if your going to be purchasing supplies , i only did this because i had the stuff , because candles have so many variations it doesn't make it all that repeatable


my next lube will probably be bens red using Randyrat bees wax

[longbow]

I think I mentioned earlier that I had originally planned to "hot tumble lube" with my lube.

I kinda like tumble lube but didn't have any or any easy access (gotta order and wait) but like many I guess I over apply and it stays sticky. I thought maybe using heat to melt a solid lube then roll boolits in a film of molten lube would work. It did work reasonably well but the lube remains a little jelly like when melted and not as thin as I would like it to be. Not sure if that is the grease or combination of grease and soap. Next time I will try an oil instead of grease.

It does work well as a pan lube though using a cookie cutter at room temperature or a little warmer. I just lubed up 100+ .44 boolits yesterday.

I have not tried it in a sizer/luber but see no reason it wouldn't work (might need a bit of heat or softening).

[longbow]

GREENCOUNTYPETE:

An update on my lube.

I loaded up 100 rounds of .44 mag with 165 gr. TC boolit over 10.3 grs. (Lee scoops) 700X and 130 rounds of .303 British with two boolit weights of 129 gr. and 202 gr. over the same charge.

I did not have a load for .44 mag using 700X but took a look through the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and found loads for .38/40 and .44/40 so using the comparison to other loads decided that 9 to 11 grs. should work.

I had good results using Unique with this boolit and home made lube last time but am low on Unique so wanted a similar load and velocity. I figured this would be close.

Accuracy was not as good, though I didn't shoot many, I had my daughter, my son and daughter's boyfriend out shooting so they burned most of it up. When I cleaned the gun I found minor leading this time. This is the first time I have gotten leading with this lube in either .44 or .303.

A few wipes with tight patch on a jag took it out but there was some leading after about 80 rounds.

We also shot over 100 rounds of .303. These both shot very well and did not lead at all. These two boolits are gas check boolits.

The .44 load should be about 1500 to 1600 FPS based on book comparisons (I didn't chronograph) so not real high velocity. This is a plain base boolit though so maybe at the upper edge for pressure/velocity.

Just thought I would pass that on.

Longbow

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Was it a revolver or a rifle for the 44 mag

15-1600 fps is very fast for a pistol

i have some IMR-700x data for cast 240gr lead the lee book recommends 8.4 starting to 9.5 max

your 9 -11 sounds like it is on the high side maybe why the leading and accuracy fell apart

[longbow]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that, it is a Marlin 1894 so with a 165 gr. lightweight boolit 1600 FPS isn't so fast. The velocity is my estimate based on similar weight boolits for .44/40 since the Lyman book doesn't list anything under 180 gr. for .44 mag.

With a boolit as light as 165 grs. the 10 grs. of 700X should be fine but I have to say that it did seem to be slightly more energetic than the 13 grs. of Unique I used last time. No pressure signs though.

The 13 grs. of Unique was a peppy but nice load and performed very well with no leading so I am guessing the 700X generates a little more pressure or at least a more rapid pressure spike.

Accuracy with the 700X was not bad, just not as good as the Unique load... and I got some leading.

Longbow

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

i got out and tested 3 loads with Pete's Poor Man Lube tonight

they were all with pan lubed using Pete's poor man , c309-170rf un checked
the first was a 15.8 gr actual weight using a 1.18 cc auto disc and H4895 this load was good with my old nra lube but better with Pete's one ragged hole good at 25 yards

then 18.2gr actual weight from a 1.36 auto disk this kept the accuracy that of 5 rounds 4 were touching and i am sure the fifth was me
and it got much cleaner combustion than the 15 gr load the book puts velocity at around 1430

the final load was 21.3gr from a 1.57 auto disk velocity should have been just about 1600 and not a huge surprise accuracy started to fall off

i have a 1.46 auto disk that will be up for the next load to try maybe i can push just a touch faster and not sacrifice accuracy , i know 21.3 is over the line and that the line is between 18.2 gr and 21.3

but the 21.3 were sure fun to shoot cans with the rest of them i had made up , the cans were fairly close my son had been shooting them with the 22lr
i even tried 5 out at 100 yards they all hit the big rock under my target so i will have to increase elevation to shoot farther out

[garym1a2]

I find what's most important for me is to use enough lube. When I filled the grooves I got the best results. I am a big fan also to have beeswax in the mix.

[MikeS]

I'm in the middle of a conspiracy! I decided to mix up some lubes, and I went and bought some paraffin, and a tube of Red and Tacky, as well as a sample pack of Randy Rat's stuff (I think it was beeswax, carnauba wax, stearic acid, and lanolin), and they've all disappeared! I can't find any of them, but when I open my cabinet, the little boxes of Javelina keep falling out!

[nanuk]

I'll bet you walk and talk in your sleep

you may have a psychological block to using homemade lube

I think we have a "Shrink" on duty on the forums.... perhaps he can help you!
although I'm not sure he makes his own lube either

[MikeS]

Well, the conspiracy is unraveling. I found the red n tacky, as well as the paraffin! The sample pack is still missing, along with a couple of brass catchers I recently bought! I managed to mix up some lube that's similar to Ben's Red, but very simplified. I mixed half a tube of RnT with 1/2lb paraffin, with 1oz of synthetic 2 stroke oil. I might have to reheat it, as the RnT never fully liquified, but even so I was able to get the oil/grease/wax to all mix together fairly well. I'm going to try cutting a slice off the cake to see if it's all as evenly mixed as I think it is per Ben's suggestion. I have to reheat it in any case to either pan lube with it, or get it into my lubesizer, so I'll have a chance to remix it then in any case. I think I'll try pan lubing with it first, as I have a couple of the small trays that come in the old Lee lube and size kits (the ones that came with a kake cutter, and pound thru sizer pre LLA), as I think this lube might be too stiff to use in a lubesizer without heat, and I don't have any heat setup on my Lyman 45. I've been using Javelina in the lubesizer, but it's so soft that when I store lubed boolits some always comes out of the lube grooves.

I'm waiting on a couple of Mihec #68 boolit moulds from the last GB, I got 2 of them, one with a bevel base, and one without, they would be perfect test subjects for the new lube, and the more I think about it, the more I think pan lubing is the way to go, I'll first tumble lube them using Hornady's OneShot case lube, size them with a Lee size kit (the newer on press sizer), then pan lube them with my Red Paraffin lube. While shooting them is of course the ultimate test, storing the lubed boolits in a plastic tub like I currently store all my ready to use boolits is another important test I'll put them thru.

Now I have to go outside and get the backyard ready for the coming hurricane. Gotta move all my casting stuff into the garage, move all the outside chairs against the wall, along with the table, and put anything that could become a missile in the high winds inside as well. I hate hurricane season!

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

i made it out again tonight with about 25 rounds 20 were peter poor man lube

my boolit is still a c309-170rf in WW these were water dropped
these were 19.3 gr h4895 as dropped from the 1.46 lee auto disk , is that every an easy way to get the powder in with the powder thru rifle charging die

accuracy was good , and after moving the elevator up just a notch 100 yards was possible i found that a i could shoot from 25-100 without moving the sight as it made only a tiny difference in point of impact at 25 and kept them on at 100

i am just using the factory irons and my point of aim most likly was moving small amounts but i had rounds touching touching in 2 pairs and 2 more that were darn close of 9 fired had it been a deer it would have been a dead one

no leading noticed

i ran out of pan lubed boolits while i was making up cartridges , i had a few that just had 2 coats of lee liquid alox on them so i loaded up 5 at 25 yards and i proceeded to shoot a very nice almost 1 hole group , and no leading so now i feel in need to make up a bunch of 2 coats of LLA and test them

maybe later i will test with gas checks at higher speeds but currently 1500 fps is a nice gas check free speed.

i did recover one from the berm at at 100 yards the rifling is nice and clean in the side that didn't run thru the gravel looks like i have very good fit