Rolling Block strength ???

[Moondawg]

I picked up an old Danish Army rolling block that appears to be in good shape. It has the two firing pin holes in the block for either rimfire or center fire. My question, is this action safe enough, and worth while, rebarreling, and restocking into something like a 38-55 or 40-50 straight, for use with black powder and cast boolits. I was thinking of having Lone Star Rifle Co. do the work. Or, would I just be better off using a modern rolling block action? If I could save a few $$ using this action it would we nice, but I don't know how safe 130-140 year old steel might be.

[John Traveler]

That original black power cartridge Rolling Block action is perfectly safe for original and period black powder cartridge chamberings. That original .45 Danish chambering was a contemporary of our US .45-70. When the Danish RRB rifles flooded this country in the 1960s, many were converted to .45-70 by the simple expedient of deepening the chambers with a .45-70 reamer.

I made up several of them and shoot them regularly, in .38-55, .45-70, and .50-70.

People get into trouble when they chamber for the classic black powder cartridges and then try to hotload them with smokeless powders. Not recommended!

[John Taylor]

+1 on what John said. keep it at BP pressures and you will be fine. I have had thoughts of going to a 40-50 Sharps on a rifle for my self but I never find the time to shoot. Still have a 38-55 that has had only two shots fired through it. I do have an unfired rolling block in 40-50 with a stainless barrel for sale, customer died.

[Moondawg]

[QUOTE=John Taylor;I do have an unfired rolling block in 40-50 with a stainless barrel for sale, customer died.[/QUOTE]

What does an unfired roller with SS barrel bring?

[John Taylor]

What does an unfired roller with SS barrel bring?

Was asking $1000. There are no dovetails or scope mount holes in the barrel. The plan was to mount a scope on it but when I called to verify with the customer I found out he had died. Not the best way to loose a customer.

[Chicken Thief]

The Danes changed from BP/rimfire/lead to smokeless/centerfire/jacked in 1896. It was cheaper to alter the blocks from RF to CF thus the two holes. The smokeless had a standard pressure of 1200-1600bar depending on the manufacture of the recievers/barrels. The original RB's from Remington has Enfield barrels that is of lesser steel than the Danish made ones. So if the tang says Remington then 1200bar is max but if the tang says "KJØBENHAVNS TØIHUUS" then 1600bar is max.

That is oficial data from the Danish arsenal btv.

[Freightman]

The Danes changed from BP/rimfire/lead to smokeless/centerfire/jacked in 1896. It was cheaper to alter the blocks from RF to CF thus the two holes. The smokeless had a standard pressure of 1200-1600bar depending on the manufacture of the recievers/barrels. The original RB's from Remington has Enfield barrels that is of lesser steel than the Danish made ones. So if the tang says Remington then 1200bar is max but if the tang says "KJØBENHAVNS TØIHUUS" then 1600bar is max.

That is oficial data from the Danish arsenal btv.
What does that calculate in PSI roughly?

[bearcove]

a bar is 14.5 psi

[Chicken Thief]

Rem action = 1200bar~17400psi max.
Danish action = 1600bar~23200psi max.

You will love this little gem:

http://wscope.com/convert.htm

[Freightman]

Thanks!

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Do not forget the #7 action that was factory chambered for the 7mm. That action can take some higher pressures that stay in the 1900´s 7mm range... Some people have barreled them with higher powered cartriges thinking a thick barrel will do OK. But never forget bolt thrust. I would rather have a barrel split than a breach block plow a furrow threw my forehead. I know of a few #7´s down here chambered in caliber .308 ... imagine if one of those gets a steady diet of surplus caliber 7.62 machine gun ammo that is available here.
Mike in Peru

[Ed in North Texas]

Greetings
Do not forget the #7 action that was factory chambered for the 7mm. That action can take some higher pressures that stay in the 1900´s 7mm range... Some people have barreled them with higher powered cartriges thinking a thick barrel will do OK. But never forget bolt thrust. I would rather have a barrel split than a breach block plow a furrow threw my forehead. I know of a few #7´s down here chambered in caliber .308 ... imagine if one of those gets a steady diet of surplus caliber 7.62 machine gun ammo that is available here.
Mike in Peru

I think you are thinking of the #5 RB action (chambered for the 7mm "Spanish", the 7.65 Belgian/Argentine, and the 8mm Lebel for the French in WW I - and probably others too, particularly in sporting rifles - but CRS is striking at the moment). The "military", or large frame, RBs were the #1 (original Black Powder action) and #5 made for smokeless cartridges. There was (possibly) a #1 1/2 BP action too. The highest numbered RB action was the #6, a .22 Rimfire.

[texasmac]

So does someone have or can anyone direct me to a "cheat sheet" that identifies the different roller receivers/actions? Possibly something with good photos or sufficient descriptions to identify one action from another. I just acquired a very nice roller. Until now I've been a 99% High Wall guy with a couple of Trap Doors tossed in. This is my 1st roller. The guy I bought it from said it had a #1 action, but the previous owner said it was a #5 smokeless action.

The only identifying marks are on the tang, which says "Remington Arms Co. Ilion.N.Y.U.S.A. Patented OCTR 22nd 1901. It has a single-set-trigger. Following are a couple of photos if they will help.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/RealTexasMac/Photo1jpg-1.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/RealTexasMac/Photo2jpg-1.jpg

Wayne

[Ed in North Texas]

snip The guy I bought it from said it had a #1 action, but the previous owner said it was a #5 smokeless action.

The only identifying marks are on the tang, which says "Remington Arms Co. Ilion.N.Y.U.S.A. Patented OCTR 22nd 1901. It has a single-set-trigger. Following are a couple of photos if they will help.
snip
[
Wayne

A 1901 patent date clearly makes this a #5. The last year of production of the #1 BP action (by Remington) was 1897 (IIRC).

Here's a link to a general study of the RB action: http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2010/07/actions-rolling-block-action.html

And here is the best website info I could find on the #1 and #5 ID in a short search. http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=123079.0

I did learn something else - there was a # 1 1/2 (I previously mentioned it, but was unsure if it really existed), but it was a sporting rifle action and not used for military rifles.

There are several books out for model ID, but needless to say such niche volumes are kind of pricey.

[texasmac]

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the links and help to identify the action. It's nice to definitely know what I have. By the way, the rifle is chambered for .40-65 Win. and any shooting that I do will only be with black powder loads, so, regardless of the action type, I was not concerned about exceeding pressures that the action could handle.

Wayne

[texasmac]

Guys,

I was doing a little more research and found the site below. I expect that roller owners will want to bookmark it. A great site for identifying the obtaining parts for the various actions.

http://rollingblockparts.com/

Wayne

[ShootingLooney]

I think you are thinking of the #5 RB action (chambered for the 7mm "Spanish", the 7.65 Belgian/Argentine, and the 8mm Lebel for the French in WW I - and probably others too, particularly in sporting rifles - but CRS is striking at the moment). The "military", or large frame, RBs were the #1 (original Black Powder action) and #5 made for smokeless cartridges. There was (possibly) a #1 1/2 BP action too. The highest numbered RB action was the #6, a .22 Rimfire.

There are good comparison pics on ww.rollingblockparts.com that show the diff's. between the frame shapes.

The BP frames also had a larger thread diameter than the smokeless frames, so that people would not purchase a smokeless barrel and mount it onto the BP frame.

Of course, that is irrevelant today, since one can thread anything onto anything regardless of safety... So, BP frame, stick to BP loads, and SmP frame, stick to original 7mm Mauser pressure loads.

[deepwater]

I have talked to Ken @ rollingblockparts and he is very friendly and helpful, full of knowledge about RBs....felt like I was talking to a wrench head at a wrecking yard that new every bolt pattern and part interchange of Chevy's.