Old Mould Value

[Johnch]

At the shoot tonight ( I couldn't hit anything :( ) I was ask if I knew of a book or web site that showed the value of old Ideal and others brands of moulds .
Something like the Blue Book of gun value , but for Moulds

The guy was robbed , then to cover their track the kids torched the place .
As I understand it he had hundreds of old moulds , that his Grandfather , dad and he collected
That are now a rusted mass , mixed in with the remains of the roof , floor and walls .
What is left is in the basement , a total lose .

The father of the 13 and 16 year old robers turned them in to the cops after he found the guns they stole .

He has the replacement cost for all the modern moulds and reloading equipment .


I told him , if there is such a book someone here will know of it

Johnch

[versifier]

John, PM Floodgate ASAP. He'll want a list, if possible. Holy molie!

[Johnch]

John, PM Floodgate ASAP. He'll want a list, if possible. Holy molie!

Should have said this before .
I don't realy want in the middle
I have spent to much time doing other peoples dirty work at the club .
And not even getting a Thank you

That is why I was looking for a book or Web site .

I will tel him to sign up here .
That way he can PM Floodgate


Johnch

[kodiak1]

Sounds like a good idea to me he gets the info he needs and we can get a new member.

Damn little brats go a torch a mans home, What the he!! is this world coming to?
When the dad turned them in which is the only thing to do the should of had to be picked up by an ambulance. Man if I had done something that stupid and my dad found out, Don't even want to think about it and he's been dead for 29 years now.
Ken.

[rebliss]

Kids will do stupid things. Sometimes it's the fault of their upbringing, others not. In this case, it sounds like the father is an upstanding guy. True, it really was the only thing he could have done, but nontheless, it must have been difficult for him to do.

[waksupi]

John, if he can dog out the molds, the electric reverse polarity trick may work. Do a search for electrical rust removal on Google. It should come right up. He may be able to salvage the molds, with little damage.

[rhead]

If this is for the insurance an average of 2 or 3 final sales on ebay should give a good solid estimate on what a given size and model is worth. Those that are rare and desireable enough that there were no listings would be worth at least as much and probably more than the highest recorded price.

Ebay may be able to retrieve this information for the insurance company. I am sure that it would be just on a stastical basis but those values should stand up in court.

The ability to identify the ruined remains by lyman and ideal catolon numbers would be very helpful.

[Boz330]

Depending on how hot they actually got they may be salvagable. I had a fire a bunch of years ago at my work shop and managed to salvage quite a bit of the stuff. Didn't have much choice since there was no insurance. The cost to insure was almost 10% per year of insured value. A little steep for a poor country boy trying to scrounge a living.
Kodiak, I'm with you my, old man would have retroactively aborted me.[smilie=1: In todays world he would have been a child beater. I'm just thankful that he only caught about half the stuff I did. I didn't do stuff that hurt folks just mischeivious stuff. It was still against the rules though.:-?

Bob

[Ricochet]

Their collector value may be ruined, but their usability won't, I bet. First thing I'd do is boil rusty mould blocks in water and card 'em off with 0000 steel wool. Rust blueing.

[carpetman]

Last week there was a fire here and a woman that was outside went back in to get her baby a blanket. She was burned to death. This fire was a trailer that had been moved to the spot where the house(shack)had burned 4 years ago and this womans 5 year old sister had died in that fire. Turns out both of the dead females 15 year old brother had set both fires.

[Johnch]

Thanks , I will pass along the information .
Let him decide what to do .


I will also see if I can talk him out of some of them , ruined moulds . [smilie=1: [smilie=1:
I don't think he casts anymore

Johnch

[Bent Ramrod]

There are books on moulds and reloading tools, but no price lists I've ever seen. Another guy who actually collects (as opposed to accumulating) moulds is klw, who posts here rarely. The Antique Reloading Tool Collectors' web site might also be able to give particulars. (www.antiquereloadingtools.org).

As an accumulator of moulds and amateur checker of prices, I would say if they were obsolete, single cavity and totally ruined, a ballpark figure of $60 apiece ought to balance out rarity vs. liquidity for the bulk of them. If he had Sharps or Harry Pope moulds, of course, the price would be much higher, but the above figure would average out for the Ideal and Lyman offerings.

I am sorry for your friend's loss. And I concur that that rusted mass of metal might still be salvageable. I've resuscitated some pretty hopeless-looking specimens myself, and I'm no museum curator. Ricochet's procedure is what I'd try first.

[floodgate]

johnch:

Unfortunately, there's no "Blue Book" for mould pricing, and the ARTCA group is mostly focussed on older stuff; between eBay and our "Cast Boolit" gang, you've got access to as good info as you're likely to find anywhere.

I'd go with Dave's $60 IF they are the old Ideal (pre-Lyman) type moulds with the blocks integral with the handles, even if the wooden handle covers are burned away. Except for the scarcer ones like #3589, #311407, original Keith SWCs, etc., (up to $60 - $75), the later separate-block ones would average around $40 - $50. Double the $60 figure for the older moulds if they are hollow-point, hollow-base, adjustable or one-piece cylindrical (paper patch) moulds; add $15 - $25 for modern block sets with hollow-point or hollow-base pins. Those are "between friends" prices, and assume some risk as to salvageability. For insurance purposes, add 50% to those figures.

If you can, collect as many of the moulds as possible, dunk them into a mix of motor oil and diesel fuel; after a few days, scrub the outer faces of each block set with one of those hardware-store stainless-steel "toothbrushes" (not the cavities - use the brass brushes for those), and note down the mould numbers; report here and we can touch up the pricing. Who knows, your friend might do better selling them off here than anything the insurance company could do for him - I know none of us would "low-ball" the price in a worthy case like this. I agree that there's a good chance the moulds can be salvaged, with a little work and the spare parts kits Lymans sells.

That's about all I can offer at this point, but will be happy to help out, given some identification of specific moulds.

floodgate

[madcaster]

And Ideal Perfection Moulds have been going for about $330.00 on EBay.

[floodgate]

Bent Ramrod and madcaster are right; the older, fixed-block Ideals in plain form would be in the $60 - $100 range, depending on condition, but any of the "specialty" ones like the "Perfection" adjustables, cylindricals. etc., would be a lot higher. A friend has a .25 caliber Perfection and wants $275 for it - and I am thinking.... I'd go for it if I had anything in .25 caliber. I'll stick by my estimates for the modern block sets.

floodgate

[Johnch]

I gave him a link and told him .
Now it is up to him to get his @ss in gear

He did tell me they have salvaged most of the moulds , but not sure if they went any farther .

Johnch

[jaystuw]

$60 to $100 is what I would expect to pay for a fixed block ideal mold casting an average to scarce bullet, maybe less if it is cut for a round ball. I still see them in that price range at the gun shows, but hold on to your hats guys! If the mold casts a rare bullet and you really, really want it ,be prepared to pay a bundle on e-bay. Here are some examples of winning bids in the last few months (cherry # then price)- 375248-$178.28
403173-$237.50
319279-$305.00
and finally 451119, a jaw dropping $451.00 (the most paid that I can remember for a fixed block non specialty ideal )

I'm glad I'm not looking for any of these , my wife would absolutely have a fit if I paid that much!

John

[45nut]

My oldest mold..........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/45nut/100_0509.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/45nut/100_0508.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/45nut/100_0507.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/45nut/100_0506.jpg

[Ricochet]

45Nut, I have a Lee 6-cavity 429-215-1R that cast boolits that look a lot like that one.

[45nut]

And I doubt either of us are selling.
I am guessing mine is a common cut sample,,but what vintage? I have an idea but am sure floodgate can zero in much closer.

[floodgate]

45nut:

#440225 first shows up in Ideal Handbook #14 (late 1901), where it is listed as "A special bullet designed for the old model Colt's and Remington powder and ball revolvers that were used in the civil war, 1861 to 1865....Special List, $1.50"

Your mould has the alignment peg and matching recess, and the lock screw for the sprue-plate pivot - which first appeared in Ideal Handbook #13 (early 1901). Since the mould markings did not change when the Ideal business was sold to Marlin in 1910, it could be from any time up till the end of Marlin production in December, 1915.

Lyman picked it up when they re-started Ideal in late 1925, and continued it in the line (in the new, separate block sets) through 1961. It also shows up in the Special Order lists from 1971 through 1978, under the Leisure Group management era (they were evidently "milking" the "back room" for everything they could get out of it). I have one in small-block, single-cavity form. You're lucky to have that nice, older example. (But I'll bet it's a stinker to try and get started straight in a C&B Colt or Remington.)

floodgate

[Ricochet]

The way I've seen those loaded into C&B Colts and Remingtons is nose first into the chamber. Makes sort of a boat tailed wadcutter.

[Ricochet]

Come to think of it, I could load 'em that way in .44 Specials.

[jaystuw]

ricochet

I never thought about that, I bet they would work good point down. especially at the short ranges I shoot my colt 44. I don't have a 450225 but I got a single cavity lee that looks pretty close. I'll have to try it- john

[45nut]

As usual,,,thank you Doug,
I knew you were the man to know. I never would have guessed it was for a cap'n'ball. I was leaning towards the 45 Schofield for duty. I have never cast from that mold,,but as a 45nut I could not resist it.
Just so happens I have a 1858 Rem copy here so that mold may just see some use.

What an amazing knowledge base to have available,in years past that answer could have taken months or years of research.