My american 'rook' rifle

[shaggist]

Here are the pictures of my latest project, started last winter and finished this week. It began life as an off-brand, .410 shotgun, in good mechanical condition, with the best trigger release I have ever seen on a shotgun. I sent the barrel to John Taylor to have a liner fitted and have it chambered for .32 H&R Magnum. He does marvelous work, so, if you have in mind a relining of a barrel, get in touch with him. His prices are fair and his turn-around time good.

Picking this caliber allows me to shoot .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, and .32 H&R. The bore is .312 and the twist 1 in 16"s, so any bullet weight between 85 grns. and 115 grns should be good to go. I sanded the metal bits and re-blued them, sanded the stock to bare wood and put on 15 hand-rubbed coats of pure tung oil, polished the butt plate, had my local smith add the Williams rear sight, fitted the front ramp to the barrel with a dovetail nut, and added the sling swivels. With a finished weight just a hair over 5 lbs, I like the way it came out, and it shoots much better than my old eyes will allow. I am going to work up some 'high-powered' loads using Starline brass and .32-20 loading data, so it will be a rifle with many facets, usable for everything from crows to Eastern Whitetail deer (head shots only). Lets hear what you think about the concept. It should be perfect for a youngster's deer rifle, light enough to carry all day, and powerful enough to take a his/her first deer.
Click on each picture twice for a larger, high-resolution view

[FrankG]

Looks real slick !!

[Ben]

shaggist

Can you give us a view of the chamber and extraction system ?

Nice little rifle, and the best part is 10 lbs of ingots will allow you to do a LOT OF SHOOTING ! !

[richhodg66]

I have been very intrigued with the whole Rook rifle concept for a couple of years now after seeing a similar thing Ed Harris had done. I've been shooting (rather, my youngest son has been shooting) a lot of .32 H&R through two revolvers and a companion rifle would be nice. There's a Stevens break open .410 in the local pawn shop cheap, may get started on a project like this.

There's a lot f small game and varmint hunting that really needs more than a .22 LR, but in my experience, the .22 WMR tears up meat too much on edible game. This would be the answer to that problem.

[shaggist]

Here are 2 pictures of the chamber/extractor area. The gun started as an ejector and I asked John Taylor to change that to an extractor. He redid the extractor to fit the .32 H&R case from its original .410 size.

For those of you contemplating building such a platform as I have here, be advised, that, unless you can reline the barrel and do the chambering/extractor reconfiguring, muzzel crowning yourself, it will cost more than you might think initially. I ran over my budget by about $200 by the time I finished it. I have no machinist skills or equipment, and so I have to rely on others who can do this kind of work. And it is expensive. But worth it in the end.

[EMC45]

I am salivating.....

[mroliver77]

I have the bits to do an nef. (barrel stub, 30-30 win 94 barrel and 20 g action) also have the HP actions. I was thinking .327 but it would prolly not be safe on the shotgun action. The .327 might even make a 1880's type BP round.
Jay

[Catshooter]

Sweet rifle.


Cat

[Te Hopo]

Awesome, I have been looking for a suitable action to do something the same, I might wind up just getting a rossi in .357 but I'm not a fan of it's lines.

[geargnasher]

Aww, now Molly's gonna be drooling all over himself :bigsmyl2:

Gear

[StrawHat]

As much as I like the rook concept, I would need to increase the caliber to 45 and chamber it for the 45 long Colt. Weight would stay at 5 pounds and I would be happy. After that, a companion in 32 Magnum (of some flavor) would be next.

[Nobade]

Did you have the firing pin bushed? If it has the original shotgun firing pin, that is going to really limit the pressures you are able to safely run. If it is bushed down, you will be able to generate some pretty serious ballistics with that if you want to. Don't go using 32-20 load data though, it is quite a bit bigger and what is safe in a 32-20 is quite an overload in a 32 H&R as you get up near the limits. Otherwise, great job! I have been looking for one of those little .410s for a long time now but never found one cheap enough that I wanted to convert it. I do think Ed Harris is on to something good, and judging from posts over the years there is quite a bit of interest for something like this.

[NoZombies]

I love these guns. I need to finish up a couple more of the .32 projects I have waiting on me right now...

[Catshooter]

A friend of mine took one of those older H&R 410s and turned it into the most gourgus 219 Zipper you ever wanted to lay eyes on.


Cat

[badgeredd]

I am working on a shotgun based rifle that could be a fraternal twin! The action is nearly identical but my choice of cartridge is a bit different. We call it the 30 Badger, a necked down 38 special case. Already have one on a Star mini-roller that is a hoot to shoot. My newest project will be wearing a 4 power scope.

Yours is a nicely done rifle. I can only hope mine will be as nice when finished.

Edd

[shaggist]

I must compliment John Taylor on his abilities as a gunsmith/machinist. I didn't think of having the firing pin bushed when I sent him instructions on what I wanted done. He emailed me and strongly suggested that I authorize him to do so-I did and he did. So, I'm not worried about the strength of this action. It is cast steel in excellent condition, and I plan to start at the low end of the 32-20 (rifle) loading data, and slowly work up to a decent, accurate load. I have another single-shot for the high-powered end of the spectrum--a Rossi R357S, rechambered to .357 Maximum. That's another one that can fall into the 'rook rifle' category, only for BIG Rooks. It has the multiple cartridge capabilities like the little gun-38 Special, 357 Magnum, and 357 Maximum. Everything from chipmunks to feral hogs from only 2, inexpensive, light-weight rifles.
If you click on the pictures 3 times, they will get bigger and easier to see.

[uscra112]

Using .32-20 data in a .32 H&R Mag case may be a lot more exciting that you want to know about !

The nominal case capacity of the H&R cartridge is 16+ grains water, and the .32-20 is 22+ grains. Even starting loads from a .32-20 manual will be major high pressure in the .32 Mag case.

Not belittling your project, however. Been wanting to do something like for years. A .32 S&W Long barrel on the old Stevens Model 101 "44 shot" action - "boys' rifle" size, handy around the house, light to carry for woods rambles, would knock over rabbits and squirrels, and maybe even a chuck at close range.

[felix]

What would a 357 max be like necked to a true 32 (323)? Would that be a 32-20 equivalent? Would it be a better shooter? ... felix

[maglvr]

GREAT rifle!! I bet it will be your new favorite.
I made a 357 from a shotgun a few years back, that I just love, and this trapper carbine in .44 Special, they are 2 of my favorite long guns for sure.
Happy hunting!!
maglvr
http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/maglvr/44SPL1.jpg

[uscra112]

What would a 357 max be like necked to a true 32 (323)? Would that be a 32-20 equivalent? Would it be a better shooter? ... felix

Guys in the ASSRA are doing just that, or close to, for 200 yard competition. Some also use heavy boolits in the .32-20 case (fast twist barls, of course). Look up ".32 Miller".

[blackpowdermax]

felix....the 357 Maximum necked to .312" diameter was originally called the 32-30 Remington and was made specifically for the Remington-Hepburn. Here's what it looks like:

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL938/2122351/4239634/397580892.jpg

Not your .323", but close. That's a 32-20 WCF on the right.

max

[badgeredd]

GREAT rifle!! I bet it will be your new favorite.
I made a 357 from a shotgun a few years back, that I just love, and this trapper carbine in .44 Special, they are 2 of my favorite long guns for sure.
Happy hunting!!
maglvr
http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/maglvr/44SPL1.jpg

maglvr,

What is your rear sight? It appears to be a peep of some type...definitely something that interests me and my older eyes.

Edd

[felix]

Goes to show there is nothing new going on within the realm of handloading. I've had a hankering of just long necking the 8mm Mouse-r case, i.e., 30-06 with 30-30 neck length at 323. Reason would be to short throat the seating and leave room to extend the boolit out as time went on shooting 40K cup loads. It is amazing how fast freebore comes about with these pressure levels. ... felix

[303Guy]

I have a problem with this concept - once you have one of those sweet little beasties, what will you do with all your other guns that you'll never shoot with again?[smilie=1:

My Dad has a very old super lightweight 410 shotgun which he probably won't be needing anymore (he's 91 and lives in a retirement complex) that I have been thinking of asking him to ship to me for a very similar project.

Otherwise I have a single shot Chinese 12ga shotgun which could make a sweet little 303 Brit single shot. (If I can find a suitable barrel). I have it and don't use it and it's still brand new! It was going to be a suppressed shotgun but that faded into obscurity.

[Piedmont]

Every time I consider a Rook Rifle I come back to the .22 LR which is more accurate and with hollowpoints or Stingers will do everything the Rook will except be quiet. With CB longs or shorts it is quiet. A Stinger will handle a sub 50 yard groundhog in the garden.

A small .22 centerfire will give me more, but that isn't a Rook Rifle.

[uscra112]

Every time I consider a Rook Rifle I come back to the .22 LR which is more accurate and with hollowpoints or Stingers will do everything the Rook will except be quiet. With CB longs or shorts it is quiet. A Stinger will handle a sub 50 yard groundhog in the garden.

A small .22 centerfire will give me more, but that isn't a Rook Rifle.

But .22 rimfire is not reloadable. Where's the fun in that ?

[Catshooter]

maglvr,

Very cool rifle. How did you do yours? Sleeved or what?

Tell us about (and give us a close up pic) that rear sight please!


Cat

[shaggist]

My guess for Maglvr's rear sight is a Skinner Lo-Pro. It looks like the one I originally tried on the Rook Rifle, and then decided on the Williams instead.

[maglvr]

"maglvr,

What is your rear sight? It appears to be a peep of some type...definitely something that interests me and my older eyes.

Edd"


Hi Edd and all:
That rear peep is a very precision instrument indeed! It is comprised of a 10 cent, tubular copper "squish" type electrical connector, silver soldered to a 5 cent screw ;) A pkg of 50 at Lowes is $4.99
Works like a champ!
I love peeps and got tired of paying $50+++ depending on the rifle, for a Williams.
On my lever guns I just screw one in one of the factory drilled scope base holes.
15 cents beats $50+++ in my book anytime.
I forgot to mention, I use a chainsaw file to channel the screw, so the connector fits down in the screw head, 1 drop of 94% lead / 6% silver solder holds it like a rock!
Be warned! making these are yet another addiction!!! ;)
For those not into soldering, a drop of good old J-B will work just fine also, just be sure to rough up both mating surfaces with sandpaper first.

[maglvr]

maglvr,

Very cool rifle. How did you do yours? Sleeved or what?

Tell us about (and give us a close up pic) that rear sight please!


Cat

I went the stub barrel route.
It was a 44 mag barrel, but I wanted a true 44spl, so I took 1/8" off the chamber end.

[maglvr]

" I am going to work up some 'high-powered' loads using Starline brass and .32-20 loading data, so it will be a rifle with many facets, usable for everything from crows to Eastern Whitetail deer (head shots only). Lets hear what you think about the concept."

Shaggist:
I think heart/lung shots would do the trick nicely also. Especially with a 115gr. bullet. I think you may be surprised at the penetration / wound channel, with a nice flat nose boolit.

[pietro]

[ I'm not worried about the strength of this action. It is cast steel in excellent condition]

I am.

IF the action was originally an NEF/H&R shotgun (SB-1), which (although carrying case colors like steel) are cast iron.

The NEF/H&R actions originally rifle actions (SB-2) are steel, however.

AFAIK, some of their issue rifles, in pistol chamberings only (.357, etc) are on SB-1 actions - OK with factory loads, but no +P or heavy loads.

.

[shaggist]

Stamped on the left side of the receiver is 'Keystone Arms Co.'. The manufacturer was the W.H. Davenport Co. It isn't a cast iron receiver, but cast steel, which is considerably stronger. Like I said, I'm not concerned about the strength of the gun, since I have it and know what it is.

[uscra112]

[ I'm not worried about the strength of this action. It is cast steel in excellent condition]

IF the action was originally an NEF/H&R shotgun (SB-1), which (although carrying case colors like steel) are cast iron.

AFAIK, some of their issue rifles, in pistol chamberings only (.357, etc) are on SB-1 actions - OK with factory loads, but no +P or heavy loads.

.


Somebody tell me how the heck you can possibly case-color cast iron, when it's already got more carbon in it than the case on case-hardened steel.

[Wheeler]

I'm going to take this in a slightly different direction. What about using an M6 Scout as a platform for the caliber conversion? I realise that it isn't a true Rook Rifle with two barrels, but if the .22 barrel could be swapped out for a .32 barrel, and still retain the .410 I think it would be an excellent small game getter/survival/truck gun.

Best regards,

Wheeler

[pietro]

Somebody tell me how the heck you can possibly case-color cast iron, when it's already got more carbon in it than the case on case-hardened steel.

Tromp de 'Oil, or "fool the eye" - What looks like heat case hardening colors are cold chemical induced case colors on many firearms, some even "faux" CCH (aka: paint).

.

[DHB]

I have a problem with this concept - once you have one of those sweet little beasties, what will you do with all your other guns that you'll never shoot with again?[smilie=1:

Otherwise I have a single shot Chinese 12ga shotgun which could make a sweet little 303 Brit single shot. (If I can find a suitable barrel). I have it and don't use it and it's still brand new! It was going to be a suppressed shotgun but that faded into obscurity.

If you were to do it in 303 you should be able to get a chamber adapter and fire 32 H&R through it. Kind of a reduced round for lighter work. With a 303 you could take big game and with a 32 H&R varmints or other small game. I've have two "RooK' rifles in 32 H&R, one in a Cadet Martini, and one a #2 Remington Rolly. Both really, really fun, light weight rifles.:-P

John Taylor is highly recommended. Does good work and he knows his stuff.
DHB

[Outpost75]

As FYI, I also have a short, 18" barrel single-shot chambered in .32 S&W Long, which John Taylor built for me using an old pre-war single-shot H&R .410. I had him fabricate a complete barrel assembly, because I still wanted to use the. 410 barrel.

Chronograph data for NEI #82, 115-gr.FN .32-20 bullet, which closely resembles Ideal #3118:

1.5 grs. Bullseye 705 fps, 17 Sd
2.0 grs. Bullseye 878 fps, 4 Sd
2.5 grs. Bullseye 965 fps, 8 Sd
5.6 grs #2400,1084 fps, 22 Sd
6.0 grs. #2400, 1215 fps, 19 Sd Do Not Exceed

Win. factory 98-gr. LRN 872 fps, 13 Sd.

[TheGrimReaper]

That baby is SWEET!!! If you don't mind how much did it set you back??? I didn't get much info from his website.

[pipehand]

TheGrimReaper, I bought the li'l rifle from the OP over a year ago. Custom work being expensive, I paid a lot, and Shaggist took a loss. It was still cheaper for me than my original plan, which was to have a .410 Yildiz shotgun rebarreled. A similar project would cost north of 500 dollars.

The Keystone Arms is chambered in .32 H&R Mag, but I've only shot a very few of those. The gun's main appeal is shooting Lyman 313249's in front of 1.2 grains of VV N310 in 32 S&W Long brass. Super quiet and very accurate. I got some RCBS 312-98"s in trade a while back, and I need to try them out with a load in the 32 mag brass. With the current cost of 22 rimfire, I can shoot this rifle for less, with less muzzle report, and with better terminal effectiveness.

[hornady308]

I really like the sights you chose to use. Peep sights don't get enough respect.