Ladle VS Bottom pour

[JTknives]

I am sick and tired of the non stop dripping and mountians my lee 10lb makes. I'm thinking about using a ladle for casting as some of my moulds have a problem filling out perfect all the time. So I would like to here your thoughts on one or the other. I spotted a lyman ladle at sportsmans and was thinking about getting that. thanks guys

[PacMan]

You might just get you a ladle and try it out.Use the pot you have and see which you prefer.
I laldle cast and feel that i have more control of the operation. On thing that i have found that if you are using 4+ cavity size molds the wider the mouth of the pot the better.I used a pot and coleman stove (with good results) for a year before i bought a Wagge pot.The pot i was using had a 6" top and was easier to cast with the larger molds than the 4" Waage pot.
Dwight

[jhalcott]

I have 2 Lee 10# pots and 2-3 ladles also! On big 45 and 50 caliber bullets and single cavity molds, I generally ladle the alloy. On smaller caliber ,multi cavity molds I find it easier to bottom pour the alloy. BUT then I an LAZY! Both ways will work.

[Mk42gunner]

I haven't actually cast with my ten pound Lee pot, it is my spare. I have a 4-20 that I use for just about everything. The ten pounder looks to be a PITA to ladle cast with because of the way the valve rod is positioned.

I use an RCBS ladle most of the time, of course I am not trying to set any casting records, but you can still make a pile of good boolits quickly using a ladle, as long as you can get it in the pot.

Try it, you'll like it.

Robert

[mooman76]

I can't really say how one vs. the other because I have never done the bottom pour. Some here have given methods of how they have fixed their bottom pour drip problems if you do a search. As far as ladle casting I have been doing that for over 40 years and see no reason to change. Does me good. You can actually ladle cast pretty fast once you get used to it and get a good pace going. I'm the odd one though. I use the Lee ladle and it works good for me. Give it a try and see.

[plainsman456]

Drain the pot ,then clean the rod and the pour hole it should stop.
Sometimes just gently putting pressure on the rod does the trick.For pure production the bottom pour[for me]gets a lot of boolits done pretty quick.

[snuffy]

There's actually 3 methods, or maybe 1a and 1b, 2. Ladle casting can be divided into simply pouring the alloy on the sprue plate or 1a, then contact or pressure pouring with a bottom pour ladle like the Lyman, 1b. I use only 1b and 2 bottom pouring. All my handgun boolits get bottom poured. It's faster and the smaller boolits work well that way.

The big stuff, .458 and the new 500 grand canyon demand the pressure poured Lyman ladle.

I retired my 10 pound lee pot for the reason above, the constant dripping. Nothing I tried would cure it. Why lee ever built the valve at an angle is a big mystery.

The pro 4-20 works great with an occasional drip. I put a spring that puts pressure down on the valve that all but eliminated the drips.

[littlejack]

Nothin wrong with ladle casting. I retired my well used (three decades) Lyman Mould Master a few years back.
I got tired of all the heavy debris and inclusions draining out the bottom, and makin my pretty boolits ugly.
I use the Coleman 2 burner stove, but only run 1. I changed it over to propane. "Very easy".
I have a little China made cast iron pan from Good Will.
I use the Lyman ladle. All works well, and I can control how I drop the alloy in. SWIRL? yes
Jack

[MikeS]

I started out using a ladle & a Lyman Big Dipper pot. A while later I got a Lee 4-20 bottom pour, and I've found that some moulds work better with a bottom pour, and others with a ladle. And I don't mean a different type of mould, I mean each individual mould has it's own preferences. Having said that, I do find that the Lee moulds seem to like bottom pour much more than ladle casting.

If you want to stay with bottom pour, and also be able to ladle pour, get a Lee 4-20 pot. The valve mechanism is all on one side, so you have plenty of room to get a ladle in, and going from a 10# pot to a 20# one also makes a big difference! Also, unless you're set on doing pressure casting (placing the spout of the ladle right against the mould, if you're using multiple cavity moulds (4 or more) you might want to look into a Rowell #1 ladle, as it holds a lot more lead, and pours from the bottom so any surface dirt/dross/etc. stays on top, and you pour nice clean lead. I forget where I saw it, but there was somebody (I think it was the Antimony Man) that sells Rowell ladles with shortened handles specifically for use with an electric pot, although I don't think it would be too hard to shorten the existing handle if your at all handy with tools.

There are lots of options, and a lot of it depends on personal preference, so do some reading, then decide what you want to do.

[geargnasher]

There is no "versus".

Bottom-pouring and ladling are two different methods, and they both work. The strong points of each method are just different. Sometimes large (400-grain plus) boolits need a good rowel ladle mated firmly in the sprue well to cast top-notch, and long, skinny small-bore usually do better with a ladle, but the bottom-pour is tough to beat for 90% of the casting an average person will do, and it's a heck of a lot easier to do IMO.

If your pot drips, it's because your melt is dirty and your pintle isn't seating well. The ten-pounder with the angled valve rod is worse than the Pro 4-20, but I have ZERO drip problems with my 4-20 as long as I don't dump sprues back in as I cast, and don't scrape the bottom with my stick (that leaves ash trapped under the melt). I scrape the bottom with a teaspoon, and the sides and top with a stick. I use the teaspoon to bring up trash to the surface by corraling it to one side and pulling it up. Every few pots full I empty it and clean it with a wire cup brush on a drill.

Gear

[longbow]

I have been a ladle caster for over 40 years. I did have a Lee bottom pour pot many years ago but didn't like it. I just found ladle casting easier and more natural for me so have done it ever since.

Recently a friend new to casting wanted me to show him how to cast with his new Accurate mould and bottom pour RCBS pot. Well, of course while I am an experienced caster I am not experienced with a bottom pour pot. In any case I told him I would give it a go.

I have to say that after getting the motions sorted out and getting into a rhythm it went very smoothly and I was casting very nice boolits in no time. I guess you can teach an old dog!

I could probably be convinced to use a bottom pour pot now but I will probably stick with what I have and am used too. Also, I am too cheap to buy a bottom pour pot!

I think Gear makes a very good point ~ they are different and both have their place.

I seldom have problems with fillout casting with a ladle and I like the simplicity of ladle casting from an open pot but I can see benefits to the bottom pour pot too.

That was probably no help at all was it?

One comment about ladles though ~ I use an open plumber's ladle that holds about 1 lb. + of molten lead. I tried the Lyman ladles and didn't like those. I find I can use my big open ladle to stir, dross and pour, and it is easy to keep the pouring lip clean.

If you decide to try a ladle you might get a Lyman with the nozzle and also a big soup spoon or something to try as an open ladle. Just a thought.

Longbow

[HARRYMPOPE]

I never liked bottom pour until i got an RCBS pot.Its the best by a long shot and worth the money.Mine is almost 30 years old and still going strong.I still prefer ladle with 1 and 2 cavity molds as i feel i get better bullets.But its just a "feeling" because i get beat at matches often by bottom pour guys.

HMP

[Bret4207]

A good man with a lade that pays attention to what he's doing will out produce a BP any day and make better boolits than a guy that's just going through the motions with a BP. IOW it's the operator that determines the final outcome. I use both a ladle and SAECO BP. My experiences with Lee's soured me for a long time on BP and even the SAECO is limited. Try it and see, chances are you'll find a lot to like about the ladle.

[white eagle]

I ladle pour everything
No need for a bp

[bigboredad]

I have always used a ladle but not the fancy ones. I cast off a hot plate and a pot from the dollar store. My ladle is a large soup lade with a hole drilled on the pour side and the handle bent to suit it me. It has worked well for me but as I stated I have never used a bp. Also I only cast .45 caliber bullets that range in weight from 200-340.so I would give it a try and see what ya think. other wise you'll just wonder;-)

[44man]

I have cast for way over 60 years. Started with sinkers and jigs. I even made my own jig molds back then because all I did was fish when I was a kid.
I confess to being too stupid to make a BP work. It is also too much work to keep it running right. I plug my pots and take the junk off the top.
I made this mold by hand when I was 13 or 14. The fork holds it together when I pour. Set the hooks in, close the blocks, put the fork on and I made thousands of jugs.
You can convert me to BP if you try to pull my teeth and want to get beat up! :veryconfu

[thehouseproduct]

I like the ease of bottom pour. No constant fluxing and skimming.

[44man]

I like the ease of bottom pour. No constant fluxing and skimming.
A joke, right? It takes very little fluxing and skimming. Piles of boolits and only after dumping the sprues in from the can do I flux and skim.
Learn the ladle and it is easy and fast.
I never have to clean the pot, never have to poke the spout out. never have to worry about temps, never have crud on my boolits, never have unfilled molds.
I could have made a few hundred more boolits in the time I spent keeping the BP working.
Beat me, pound me, choke me, but the day I give up a ladle is the day I stop casting. :coffee:

[JTknives]

A joke, right? It takes very little fluxing and skimming. Piles of boolits and only after dumping the sprues in from the can do I flux and skim.
Learn the ladle and it is easy and fast.
I never have to clean the pot, never have to poke the spout out. never have to worry about temps, never have crud on my boolits, never have unfilled molds.
I could have made a few hundred more boolits in the time I spent keeping the BP working.
Beat me, pound me, choke me, but the day I give up a ladle is the day I stop casting. :coffee:

thats how i feel, my moulds don't fill out all the way and it takes a while to start getting good boolits. then i still get some that are not filed out. i get weird crud some times and the spout plugs or is not full flow. also as the lead level goes down the stream coming out is less and less pressure so my big moulds have a hard time. I think i'm going to try the ladle.

[Von Gruff]

I have always ladle cast as well as have never seen a need to try the BP method. Whether it has any advantages or not the ladle casting has always been my option because initially I didn't know about BP pots and the scarcity of vendors (here in NZ) made it a moot point anyway. Learning with a ladle is a very good first step in the learning curve and if you want to go on to a BP then you have a valid comparison and a second method for those moulds that may benefit from the practice.

Von Gruff.

[Leadforbrains]

I ladle pour and I am happy with it.

[Bret4207]

A joke, right? It takes very little fluxing and skimming. Piles of boolits and only after dumping the sprues in from the can do I flux and skim.
Learn the ladle and it is easy and fast.
I never have to clean the pot, never have to poke the spout out. never have to worry about temps, never have crud on my boolits, never have unfilled molds.
I could have made a few hundred more boolits in the time I spent keeping the BP working.
Beat me, pound me, choke me, but the day I give up a ladle is the day I stop casting. :coffee:

Well, I guess a pig just flew by! I have to agree with Jim, I've never had to mess with my pot or flux/skim much once it's up to temp. Of course my pot will hold way over 35 lbs (as high as the scale I used goes) and it's stainless and I know how to get my alloy clean to start with. Maybe that's part of it.

The only place I see the BP being...I dunno if easier is the right word, is that the handle is always in the same spot. Maybe that shaves a half a second off the occasional fumbling for the ladle handle. But it takes my a lot longer to get the spout and sprue hole lined up that it does to dip and pour. I know I cast faster with a ladle.

[madsenshooter]

I'm going to try ladle casting some day, probably some day soon. Lil drippy has lead splatters on my pants and shoes and I'm getting fed up with it. Have been for sometime, I already have 3 ladles, the Lee, an RCBS, and and a 1lb Rowell bottom pour. Mostly I need a hotplate that'll get hot enough

[HARRYMPOPE]

Don't compare bottom to lade using a lee BP pot as a comparison.I believe that's what frustrates most people with bottom pour.Use an RCBS !! Lyman are better than Lee,but still not an RCBS.I can tell no difference is accuracy with ladle or BP.some molds prefer one to the other.

HMP

[44man]

Don't compare bottom to lade using a lee BP pot as a comparison.I believe that's what frustrates most people with bottom pour.Use an RCBS !! Lyman are better than Lee,but still not an RCBS.I can tell no difference is accuracy with ladle or BP.some molds prefer one to the other.

HMP
The commercial setups work but what we use is the problem. My friend has Lyman, RCBS and Lee pots. He tries BP and ladle pouring. None of the pots are hot enough at the BP spout. Some are not hot enough at the top with the pot turned all the way up. 2 Lyman's are too cold with the thermostat adjusted all the way with the internal screw. The Lee is good with a ladle. Both his RCBS pots are too cold.
Cycle time is not the same on all pots. I had to stop using my Lyman even with a new thermostat. The lead was freezing before a new cycle.
I made a voltage control and it worked until it burned up, too expensive to make another. I had a huge heat sink on it too.
Some of you fellas have a good pot that works. I have not been that lucky. The Lee still works the best for me.
Pots must get hot enough and cycle within a few degrees.
Is that the reason so many have problems while others have none?
Lee uses a remote thermostat, away from total pot heat.

[JTknives]

well just got a rcbs ladle and will try it out.

[white eagle]

I bought my ladle from Ray on this site
before that I used an old gravy ladle and still use it when
I want to completely MT my pot

[HangFireW8]

The thing I like about bottom pour casting is there is one less thing to pick up and put down.

Whenever I want to cast something large, though, I reach for the ladle.

[mroliver77]

I find it amazing how personal of an issue this is! Some are touchy about it while others are downright belligerent. :)

I started with a cut down coffee can as a pot and a propane burner salvaged from an old camper. Willbird gave me a hand me down ladle to use. I made a lot of boolits with that setup. If I ever get my shop finished I will set the burner back up. For small runs and special alloys I still use the ladle.

I have am older orange squarish Lyman 20 lb bp pot that is my primary pot. I have a 20lb Lee that is my secondary pot and both work very well for me. I also have two 10 lb Lee pots for Lino and such for .22 casting. The two 20 lber rarely drip. The 10s are a bit more finicky but I cleaned them well and lapped the valve in. An extra weight on the valve stem really helps. Dripping is just not an issue for me. (knock on wood!) I shoot a lot of .45 acp and with Lee type 6 cav molds I can crank out piles of (nice) boolits. As long as ones uses the same attention to detail as when ladle casting or using single/double cavity moulds there is no loss of quality as some suggest.
Whatever flips your switch.
Jay

[Le Loup Solitaire]

There is an excellent article written by Jim Carmichael in The Art of Bullet Casting which is still available through Wolfe Publishing. It discusses the pros and cons of each method and affords valuable insights into the procedures for deriving the best quality castings. It is also a collection of some of the best information writings on numerous aspects of casting, experiments, research and outcomes, and will make for a lot of good reading and doing. Definitely worth the money. LLS

[bhn22]

well just got a rcbs ladle and will try it out.

I hope it's the older style one that's square in the back. That particular model works better for me than any other.

Brett admitted his astonishment for agreeing with 44man. Imagine my shock to realize that I agree with both of them wholeheartedly! Somebody check the planets for galactic alignment!

[HARRYMPOPE]

The commercial setups work but what we use is the problem. My friend has Lyman, RCBS and Lee pots. He tries BP and ladle pouring. None of the pots are hot enough at the BP spout. Some are not hot enough at the top with the pot turned all the way up. 2 Lyman's are too cold with the thermostat adjusted all the way with the internal screw. The Lee is good with a ladle. Both his RCBS pots are too cold.
Cycle time is not the same on all pots. I had to stop using my Lyman even with a new thermostat. The lead was freezing before a new cycle.
I made a voltage control and it worked until it burned up, too expensive to make another. I had a huge heat sink on it too.
Some of you fellas have a good pot that works. I have not been that lucky. The Lee still works the best for me.
Pots must get hot enough and cycle within a few degrees.
Is that the reason so many have problems while others have none?
Lee uses a remote thermostat, away from total pot heat.

I have ladled and BP'ed with Lee,Potter,Herters SAECO Lyman and RCBS and haven't found any problems making good bullets with any of them .The lee and Lyman are just 'drippy" and don't have a mold guide as good as the RCBS.Not sure what cold nozzle problems you are referring to?

HMP

[44man]

I have ladled and BP'ed with Lee,Potter,Herters SAECO Lyman and RCBS and haven't found any problems making good bullets with any of them .The lee and Lyman are just 'drippy" and don't have a mold guide as good as the RCBS.Not sure what cold nozzle problems you are referring to?

HMP
I have given it a lot of thought because some friends have pots that work while others do not. Something like luck of the draw as to when the pot came off the production line. Quality of the thermostat, etc.
My Lyman drove me nuts for years with the poor cycles, lead actually froze coming out of the BP. I cleaned the points on the thermo many times and tried all the adjustments. I replaced it with a new one and it got worse. I bypassed the thermo and it will melt steel! [smilie=b: It worked like a charm with a voltage controller but they fail from the current after a while.
My one friends RCBS pots do not get hot enough, another friends works fine.
It makes me flinch thinking of spending big bucks for a new pot that might or might not work.
So far, the Lee pots I have work the best, holding an even heat. They are as good as a cast iron pot on a fire.
The Voltage control used, if I remember, about 83 volts AC. It held the heat to within a few degrees. It was expensive to make so after it failed I went to buy new parts only to find the price doubled. I could buy a new Lee 20# pot cheaper.
So many casting problems are posted and I find it hard to blame the man, maybe the pot is at fault.
I had so much trouble with Fords and Chevy's over the years, I will never buy another. I worked as a mechanic in a Chrysler, Plymouth, Desoto dealership and would never buy one to this day.
I understand electricity, repaired TV's and radios plus wired many homes for years. I do not trust the thermostats in those pots. They are right against the hottest coils. They shut off and residual heat keeps them from closing soon enough.

[geargnasher]

That's ok, 44Man, I worked as a special builds engineer at a Boeing plant for the first two years out of college, haven't been on a commercial airliner since! I will say the Triple Seven is a fine bird, though, probably the best aircraft ever made. I have to fly to Nevada next year, probably will have to take an MD80, wish me luck!

I have and use Lee pots, they are fine if you have a thermometer or keep them in a narrow working window (don't start full and drain them down, the alloy will be MUCH hotter at the end than in the beginning). My bottom pours will drip if neglected, but if the pot is kept clean and good, clean alloy put in it, they will not drip.

Gear

[snuffy]

What I've come to understand since joining this forum is that there are as many different methods and techniques as there are different people in this world. Some insist the only way is to ladle cast, others only bottom pour. And both will defend their way til the last cow comes home. Hey, if it works for you why not defend it?

I try to give help to others that comes from what works for me. If my method gets rejected by the person I tried to help, then so what?

[44man]

That's ok, 44Man, I worked as a special builds engineer at a Boeing plant for the first two years out of college, haven't been on a commercial airliner since! I will say the Triple Seven is a fine bird, though, probably the best aircraft ever made. I have to fly to Nevada next year, probably will have to take an MD80, wish me luck!

I have and use Lee pots, they are fine if you have a thermometer or keep them in a narrow working window (don't start full and drain them down, the alloy will be MUCH hotter at the end than in the beginning). My bottom pours will drip if neglected, but if the pot is kept clean and good, clean alloy put in it, they will not drip.

Gear
That is funny! I worked 42 years at UAL and trusted about half the mechanics. [smilie=l: I would fly back then but not anymore since they closed almost all the maintenance bases and farm out work.
I loved the 777!
I have been long retired but still have dreams. In the terminal with no ID card, have to follow others through the doors. Can't get in or out and even climb fences. CRAZY dreams. I wake up and remember I do not have to go to work.

[Southron Sanders]

The BEST WAY to cast is a Master Caster from Magma Engineering. That is what I do 90% of my casting on. You can easily get used to doing 300 bullets per hour.

AS WITH ANY BOTTOM POUR MOULD YOU HAVE TO EMPTY IT OCCASIONALLY AND CLEAN ALL THE CRUD OUT OF IT, ESPECIALLY THE NOSE OF THE VALVE AND THE VALVE SEAT IN THE BOTTOM OF THE POT!

That being said, I also have a Lyman melting pot and a RCBS lead ladel. I have no problem casting lots of bullets with that outfit. So IF I have a preference I will use the Master Caster after that, it is the ladel and lead pot!

[Bret4207]

The BEST WAY to cast is a Master Caster from Magma Engineering. That is what I do 90% of my casting on. You can easily get used to doing 300 bullets per hour.



I can do over 600 an hour with a ladle and 6 banger. If I was going to put thousands into a caster it better turn out thousands an hour.

Like they said, whatever flips your switch.

[tuckerdog]

35 year old lyman 20# pot and ladle and no complaints. never used bottom pour and probably wont, volume is not my goal, just simply enjoying a hobby is what I'm after

[MaxJon]

Hi all I initially wanted the Lee 20lb Magnum melter as I prefer Ladle casting. I ended up ordering a Lee 20lb BP because Lee dont make the Magnum melter in 220V for down under. I am thinking if i am not satisfied with mould fillout, I will use the bottom pour for ingots only and ladle from the top for bullets. Or on the other hand if its going to be a dripping mess, i could remove the bottom pour valve and block off the spout, and ladle away! Either way i will not do irreversable modifications so i can go back to BP at any time. Time will tell i guess?
Advice, thoughts?? :?::?::?::?:
BB7.62

[Old Caster]

If you want to bottom pour, go with a Waage pot. The temperature will stay very close with this pot and when you order it they will set it up to the top temperature you feel you will want to achieve and it is adjustable below that. I don't remember the highest it can go but I think it was either 900 or 950. It is rather squat so the opening is large and perfect for ladle.
Some of you are confused about the temperature control on the standard bottom pour pots. They do not use an off and on thermostat. They use a rheostat that varies the amperage that goes to the elements. This is why they aren't very consistant. As they wear they will have to be turned higher and higher until they won't do the job anymore. Each time though when you replace the rheostat it will work pretty good for a while and they are easy to replace and cheap.
If you bottom pour save yourself some headache and get an RCBS first, Lyman second, and Lee third. If you only care that your bullets are good enough to just shoot and don't care about top accuracy or problems then a Lee is OK. As you all know, the prices are quite a bit different, but if you cast a lot, the better pot is well worth it. One thing to know though is that an RCBS or Lyman is not going to keep your material at more than about 750 and the Lee will go way above that with a good stat. However the temperature consistancy of the Lee isn't even close to the Lyman or RCBS and that is why it is harder to make good bullets with it.

[MaxJon]

Hi all! I think the ladle gives better bullet fillout, especially with my 180 30 RCBS rifle mould. I have the Lee 20lb bottom pour, but it allways leaves my bullets with less than perfect bases, frosty and not sharp. It bottom pours ok with my 120gr 4 cavity 9mm mould tho. They are a lot shorter bullet too. I think its ladle casting for me!
BB03

[mpmarty]

Started out ladle casting in the early sixties. Buddy of mine got a bottom pour Saeco pot and I fell in love with it. I now have a Lyman, Saeco and two Lee pots of all of them I think the LEE 4=20 works best. No drips and all the heat I want. Twisting and turning the mold and dipper seems clumsy and inefficient to me so it's bottom pour everything and my 420gr and 450gr 458s turn out just fine once mold is up to temp.

[rintinglen]

This is one of those blondes and redheads things with no real clear answers. Bret says he can do 600 boolits in an hour ladle casting. SF Liberal with a gun posted a video in which he casts 200+ boolits in a hair over 8 minutes. How many of either are keepers is anyones guess. But for me, I use the bottom pour 20 lb lee almost exclusively. Most of my casting is from 4 bangers, and
I can't get the quantity of GOOD casts from a ladle that I can from a bottom pour. I find I get my best results with Loverin boolits using the swirl, offset pour method that is easier do consistently with a bottom pour. For the really big 500 grain plus 45-70 boolits, a big ladle held firmly against the sprue plate and rolled gives better results, especially with the dead soft BP lead. Pays your money and takes your choice. Me, I dated the blond but married the red head.

[10x]

I am sick and tired of the non stop dripping and mountians my lee 10lb makes. I'm thinking about using a ladle for casting as some of my moulds have a problem filling out perfect all the time. So I would like to here your thoughts on one or the other. I spotted a lyman ladle at sportsmans and was thinking about getting that. thanks guys

If bullets do not fill out perfect every time, just try leaving as large a sprue as you can on the sprue plate.
I ladle cast and also use a bottom pour. Both will make a quality bullet. Bottom pour pots need attention to the valve and passage. If the pour passage gets reduced in size by crud you will get poorly cast bullets.
If you try to skimp on the sprue you will also get poorly filled out bullets.

[MaxJon]

A joke, right? It takes very little fluxing and skimming. Piles of boolits and only after dumping the sprues in from the can do I flux and skim.
Learn the ladle and it is easy and fast.
I never have to clean the pot, never have to poke the spout out. never have to worry about temps, never have crud on my boolits, never have unfilled molds.
I could have made a few hundred more boolits in the time I spent keeping the BP working.
Beat me, pound me, choke me, but the day I give up a ladle is the day I stop casting. :coffee:

I am gunna re visit my steel dipper pot project. Just need a bigger burner, and to thin the pot out a bit in my lathe. Should keep a pretty constant temp then, even if i have to invest in a temp gauge, the nice full filled out bullets make it all worthwhile! I cast for rifle so i want the most consistent bullets i can possibly get! I am with you 44man!
BB03

[adrians]

my little indoor set-up is a ladle only deal now as you can see i took the "handle and stop drip pin"off my 10lb and put a screw up in it and let it drip till it quit and now i use a lyman ladle and i find it give the caster more control over the lead flow.
for longer or more productive sessions i go outside with my lyman 20lb or something (bigger anyway!) and ladle out there also i get more satisfaction when i ladle pour.
i know it looks like a train wreck but it works for me :mrgreen:
adrians:twisted::castmine::evil:

[MaxJon]

my little indoor set-up is a ladle only deal now as you can see i took the "handle and stop drip pin"off my 10lb and put a screw up in it and let it drip till it quit and now i use a lyman ladle and i find it give the caster more control over the lead flow.
for longer or more productive sessions i go outside with my lyman 20lb or something (bigger anyway!) and ladle out there also i get more satisfaction when i ladle pour.
i know it looks like a train wreck but it works for me :mrgreen:
adrians:twisted::castmine::evil:

Looks ok to me mate, thought about taking the bottom pour out of my Lee 20lb, just not done it yet.

[MaxJon]

Well i have done it! I have removed the bottom pour pin from my Lee 4-20 pot to make way for the ladle, and its the best! No more deformed, poor filled out bullets, just nice sharp edged, shiny bullets. I had a very good cast session the other night with my home made ladle and the Lee, now dipper pot. I have not made any irreversable modifications, so i could go back to bottom pour, but NOT LIKELY! My home made ladle fits nicely in the Lee pot and once you get going, its amazing how quick a pile of bullets appear! Best thing i have done, no more drip drip drip either! The only problem i was having, was the mould was over heating, but thats an easy fix! I was origonally going to get the Lee Magnum melter (20lb dipper pot) but they were not available in 220v for here down under. But i am very happy with my Lee dipper pot now! :cbpour::cbpour::cbpour:[smilie=s:[smilie=s:[smilie=s:

[rbertalotto]

I guess it's like any other hobby we are in involved in. Different strokes for different folks.

I started out ladel pouring. It was soon discovered that it was simply too slow for someone like me with the patience of a gnat!

So I bought a bottom pour.........Much faster, but very irregular boolits. Some frosty, some nice and shiny, some with poor fillout, some perfect.

I realized it was ALL heat related....Temp of alloy and temp of molds.

A PID for the two pots I now have (one above the other. I'm drawing down from one while the other is melting lead, which is used to fill the first pot. This makes for lots of boolits in a very short span of time.

And a BBQ digital temperature probe mounted to my molds to maintain near perfect mold temperatures. I now use two molds at a time so the temperatures don't get too high and I don't have to stop and wait for the molds to cool down.

My boolits now come out with scientific precision. Everything from 160 grain to 535 grain boolits are about as perfect as possible.

And I can cast a huge lot of boolits in short order. Cowboy Action Shooting needs lots of boolits for practice and competition.............

[MaxJon]

I guess it's like any other hobby we are in involved in. Different strokes for different folks.

I started out ladel pouring. It was soon discovered that it was simply too slow for someone like me with the patience of a gnat!

So I bought a bottom pour.........Much faster, but very irregular boolits. Some frosty, some nice and shiny, some with poor fillout, some perfect.

I realized it was ALL heat related....Temp of alloy and temp of molds.

A PID for the two pots I now have (one above the other. I'm drawing down from one while the other is melting lead, which is used to fill the first pot. This makes for lots of boolits in a very short span of time.

And a BBQ digital temperature probe mounted to my molds to maintain near perfect mold temperatures. I now use two molds at a time so the temperatures don't get too high and I don't have to stop and wait for the molds to cool down.

My boolits now come out with scientific precision. Everything from 160 grain to 535 grain boolits are about as perfect as possible.

And I can cast a huge lot of boolits in short order. Cowboy Action Shooting needs lots of boolits for practice and competition.............

Yeah i noticed the pot was up and down a bit also. The PID thing interests me, I have asked my electronics guru about it, and he has no problems about hooking one up for me. See how my next few sessions go.
BB03

[snuffy]

Here's what I can't figure out. Those that claim they're died in the wool ladle casters say they get better boolits when using the ladle. Then they say they don't pressure cast with them, just pour the lead into the sprue holes/taper. What is the difference from a bottom pour pot and the stream from the ladle? Is it the smaller quantity of the lead in the ladle that makes all the difference?

I use both methods, as I said in an earlier post. BUT I use a pressure casting technique by holding the ladle against the sprue plate/taper. You could do the same thing with a bottom pour pot, but you'd have a LOT more pressure because the mass of the lead is greater.

I tried the drip-dribble-pour onto the sprue plate with my Lyman ladle, what a mess! You just about HAVE to stand to do it and do it above the top of the pot or catch the drips in something. Lead falling into the pot splashes all over, you'd better be wearing gloves! Try that with one of Miha's cramer type molds, then try to move the pins with lead draped all over them.

[stubshaft]

I open the hole in the spout of my RCBS ladle and can get more metal into the mold with a gentle pour that any of the old bottom pours I used to use and that includes Lyman and SAECO. If your alloy is dribbling and dripping out of the spout in your ladle then either your spout is clogged/too small or you alloy is too cold.

[geargnasher]

I'm with you, Snuffy, 100%

Gear

[MaxJon]

Here's what I can't figure out. Those that claim they're died in the wool ladle casters say they get better boolits when using the ladle. Then they say they don't pressure cast with them, just pour the lead into the sprue holes/taper. What is the difference from a bottom pour pot and the stream from the ladle? Is it the smaller quantity of the lead in the ladle that makes all the difference?

I use both methods, as I said in an earlier post. BUT I use a pressure casting technique by holding the ladle against the sprue plate/taper. You could do the same thing with a bottom pour pot, but you'd have a LOT more pressure because the mass of the lead is greater.

I tried the drip-dribble-pour onto the sprue plate with my Lyman ladle, what a mess! You just about HAVE to stand to do it and do it above the top of the pot or catch the drips in something. Lead falling into the pot splashes all over, you'd better be wearing gloves! Try that with one of Miha's cramer type molds, then try to move the pins with lead draped all over them.

Not sure about the pressure cast method mate, but i do force the ladle spout into the sprue hole while rotating slightly as per method descibed in the Lyman 4th edition casting manual. Works a treat, not as messy as the bottom pour either.
BB03

[geargnasher]

That's what's meant by "pressure casting", with either a bottom-pour pot or a ladle. The spout is placed in the sprue well so that it makes a relatively tight seal, then the lead is introduced with the "head pressure" of the lead in the ladle or pot pressurizing the lead in the mould cavity while the boolit sets. A critically timed "breakaway" and sprue pour is usually used to prevent base voids, as well as keeping the sprue plate hot. The "head" pressure of a small Rowell-type ladle is just perfect to force the air out of the mould and make sharp edges on the surface, and it's consistent. The contact, roll, breakaway method of ladle casting usually produces excellent results in my book. If I'm going to stream alloy through the sprue hole, the bottom-pour is the easiest way for me. Often, with a bottom-pour, pressure casting will force lead into the vent lines and created flashing and trash bits that get caught between the block faces.

Gear

[10x]

Rather than "pressure cast" I make sure the sprue is large enough to stay molten and supply lead to the bullet as it hardens in the mold - a large sprue will make a better bullet - ladle or post casting...

[SkookumJeff]

I started casting last spring using a ladle. I was terrible at it at first. I kept at it and eventually by experimenting I finally learned to hold the mold sideways and mount the ladle spout into the sprue hole and rotate the mold 90 degrees to vertical and pour good boolits. I was elated to finally have success with the ladle and started casting boolits like a mad man. After a few months of this I was still not satisfied with my progress. My results were inconsistent. I finally decided to try a bottom pour pot and bought a Lee 4-20. After going through another learning curve, I soon found myself pouring great boolits every session. I love my bottom pour pot and scratch my head at reports from folks who say they just can't use one and find the ladle much easier to use. For me it's the other way around. Never the less, I DO think that for my heavy 45 caliber boolits the ladle is going to give me more consistent results, but for lighter boolits I'm sold on the bottom pour. I find my Lee 4-20 pot easy to use and maintain and much cleaner to use than a ladle. When I ladle pour it's a huge mess. Not so with my bottom pour. Very clean and neat. Also my Lee bottom pour pot drips a few times once in awhile but for the most part it works perfectly with no dripping at all. I will add that I do not smelt lead in it and only melt clean ingots. The only gunk that gets in the pot comes from the sawdust I flux with. I do make a point of skimming the burnt sawdust from the melt before I add more alloy to the pot. I make every effort to keep my BP pot clean. When I first got my BP pot, I did not pay attention to keeping it clean and I had dripping. Clean alloy, no dripping. Pretty simple.

[MaxJon]

I started casting last spring using a ladle. I was terrible at it at first. I kept at it and eventually by experimenting I finally learned to hold the mold sideways and mount the ladle spout into the sprue hole and rotate the mold 90 degrees to vertical and pour good boolits. I was elated to finally have success with the ladle and started casting boolits like a mad man. After a few months of this I was still not satisfied with my progress. My results were inconsistent. I finally decided to try a bottom pour pot and bought a Lee 4-20. After going through another learning curve, I soon found myself pouring great boolits every session. I love my bottom pour pot and scratch my head at reports from folks who say they just can't use one and find the ladle much easier to use. For me it's the other way around. Never the less, I DO think that for my heavy 45 caliber boolits the ladle is going to give me more consistent results, but for lighter boolits I'm sold on the bottom pour. I find my Lee 4-20 pot easy to use and maintain and much cleaner to use than a ladle. When I ladle pour it's a huge mess. Not so with my bottom pour. Very clean and neat. Also my Lee bottom pour pot drips a few times once in awhile but for the most part it works perfectly with no dripping at all. I will add that I do not smelt lead in it and only melt clean ingots. The only gunk that gets in the pot comes from the sawdust I flux with. I do make a point of skimming the burnt sawdust from the melt before I add more alloy to the pot. I make every effort to keep my BP pot clean. When I first got my BP pot, I did not pay attention to keeping it clean and I had dripping. Clean alloy, no dripping. Pretty simple.

Sounds fair mate, I have just had better results with the ladle. Also when I go to a mate's, he has a big mother of a dipper pot, not unusual to have half a dozen blokes dipping into it! Makes for a real social thing, no beers tho, HA HA