Can you use 00 in a 20ga?

[Arisaka99]

It's probably been asked before, but does anyone load 00 for 20ga? I can use either 2 3/4 or 3in loads. All the hulls I have now are 2 3/4. I was told by a lady at a local gun shop that you cant shoot 00 because it will rip off your barrel. Now is it just me, or does it sound like BS? I don't know, but if you have any recipes, Ill be more than happy to use them!! ;)

[Baja_Traveler]

It's BS - there is a company out there who makes and sells OO buck 20 ga loads. Parklese or something like that, and they are really expensive. No reason you couldnt make your own though...

Personally I'd rather use a #4 buck for the job - be it 2 legged or 4 legged critters.

[Arisaka99]

Why #4 Baja?

[turbo1889]

The thing about it wrecking your barrel is mainly BS since lead is softer then steel and in all but the most extreme situations the lead should give and not the steel.

That said you need to realize that there is a significant sizing issue with using OO size buck-shot in the 20ga. due to the size of the bore and the size of the buck-shot.

Bore diameter for 20ga. guns varies from 0.600" to 0.640" or so even though technically a 20ga. gun that is within specs. should have a bore diameter of 0.615" with tolerances on the plus side at 0.010" which means that a 20ga. bore that is "within spec" should measure between 0.615" and 0.625" internal diameter everywhere except for the forcing cone and choke.

Double Ought ( OO ) buck shot has a nominal size of 0.330” diameter. However, the way tolerances work with buck-shot anything that is between the lower and upper size is considered within spec. for buck-shot (a very loose tolerance). In other words anything at least the nominal single ought ( O ) buck shot size of 0.320” diameter but no larger then the nominal triple ought ( OOO ) buck shot size of 0.360” is technically within spec. of the double ought ( OO ) buck shot size and can be called double ought ( OO ) buck shot. Thus although OO buck shot is commonly very close to being its nominal size that being 0.330” diameter anything between 0.320” and 0.360” can be called OO buck shot technically.

Now buck shot is normally stacked in layers. The smallest number per layer is a single ball per layer. Examples include OO and OOO buck shot sizes in the 410-bore size and loads like the Dixie tri-ball loads in the 12ga. that use much larger ball sizes then commonly considered buck shot. The next larger number to stack in layers is two pellets per layer. This is where OO buck in the 20ga. comes in. Two OO buck shot pellets stacked next to each other in a single layer will measure between 0.640” and 0.720” across the two balls and more commonly then not will be about 0.660” across the two balls if the OO buck shot that is being used is close to its nominal size.

Now with a gun with a bore diameter of between 0.600” to 0.640” and a stacking width of two buck-shot pellets of 0.640” to 0.720” you can see that in order for OO buck shot to work in the 20ga. with stacking layers of two pellets the 20ga. gun needs to have a bore diameter on the very top end of the spectrum of variance and the OO buck shot needs to be on the very bottom end of the spectrum of size tolerance otherwise it is going to be a tight squeeze to say the least. If both the guns bore diameter is nominal at 0.615” and the OO buck shot size is nominal at 0.330” then if the buck-shot pellets are stacked in layers then you will be pushing a package that is 0.660” across down a bore diameter of 0.615” assuming the buck shot pellets stay in alignment and bridge.

For the 20ga. buck size #1 (nominal 0.300” diameter, tolerance range 0.270” to 0.320” diameter) is usually the biggest size used which if both the bore diameter and pellet size is nominal then that means you will be pushing a package that is 0.600” across down a bore diameter of 0.615” assuming the buck shot pellets stay in alignment. I have seen a couple published loads that call for using single ought ( O ) buck shot in the 20ga. which have a nominal size diameter of 0.320” which means in most cases they will be a little bit of a squeeze fit when stacked in layers of two but I have never seen any published load data or factory loads for that matter using OO buck shot in the 20ga. It may be true that some small company out there is making it but they would have to be using some kind of buffered spiral stacking arrangement to accomplish it.

[Baja_Traveler]

Why #4 Baja?

All being equal, the energy transfer of 20 pellets hitting someone is about the same as 9 larger pellets hitting someone- but the shock effect of more wounds - even if smaller is going to be greater. Detroit police actually did a study on the effectiveness of various buckshot sizes vs ranges I read years ago.

It really depends on what range you expect to be shooting. 20-25 yards the #4 works awesome, and has taken alot of deer and coyotes. Beyond 30 yards the pattern opens up too much to be effective, and a larger buck size would be a better choice.

[doubs43]

The Brits favored their #5 shot (US #6) in a 12 gauge for thin-skinned dangerous game including lions and tigers. I keep my home defense shotgun loaded with 1 1/4 oz of #6 as a dense column of smaller shot such as #6 will be more effective than 9 or 12 00 buckshot at close distances. Others may debate the wisdom of my choice but both loads are probably OK up close.

Let me add that I'd hesitate to take any advice from the sales woman after the tidbit of wisdom she gave you. It's total road apples!

[Finster101]

doubs43, what have you got against "Bill the Cat"?

Sorry for the drift. Inquiring minds want to know.

James

[Piedmont]

[QUOTE=doubs43;1317260]The Brits favored their #5 shot (US #6) in a 12 gauge for thin-skinned dangerous game including lions and tigers. /QUOTE]


Why do you believe that to be true? If you read it somewhere, where?

[35remington]

Reader's Digest version of turbo's overly complicated post:

No harm will be done to the gun, but 00 does not stack well in the 20's hull. Much space is wasted that could be better utilized with smaller buckshot that stacks better and makes better use of the 20's narrower, smaller area for buckshot The 20 gauge shell is too small in interior diameter. Two buckshot won't fit side by side. Thus, wasted space.

[Arisaka99]

oh, ok, i get ya now, right now i have in the butt cuff of my NEF, 2 slugs, 2 #6's and 2 #4's, one #4 in the cuff and one in the chamber.

[shotman]

35 has it right about 6 in shot cup and you will have a pattern at 25yds that a bus can drive though, If you want 00 in 20 go to fiber wads you can get 7 and use buffer or no 9 shot .

[turbo1889]

Thanks, 35remington, looking back I do agree that I made that post way too complicated then it needed to be.

Fact is you can force OO buck into a 20ga. plastic shell in a side by side two pellets to a layer arrangement especially if they towards the smaller end of the size tolerance range. It "pimples" the outside of the hull rather badly but it can be done and they will chamber that way in most guns that have looser cut chambers if you do it in a european straight wall hull with a thin wall thickness. I'd just think such a load would pattern horribly since the buck shot would probably get pretty "mashed" going through the forcing cone and into the bore. As to how I know it can be done, I put together a dummy load before I wrote my last post.

I personally use a 0.311" round ball mold in my 20ga. (half way between the nominal sizes for #1 and O buck shot) and they stack perfectly side by side in layers of two and I use #4 buck which stack nicely in layers of four inside a wad cup. Double ought buck will stack nicely in layers of two in the 16ga. but that is the smallest gauge you can use it in until you get all the way down to 410-bore where they can be stacked in a single row inside the wad.

Long story short, it can be done, but it isn't the brightest idea around; much better idea to drop down to something around the #1 buck shot size.

[Arisaka99]

so #1 is bigger than #4? Could you do a single row of 00 or 000 and fill in the space around it with a smaller size birdshot?

[JIMinPHX]

When I first got a 20 ga., I went looking for some 00 buck loads. I didn't find any after trying 4 or 5 stores. The biggest that I found was #3 buck. Eventually someone explained to me that there isn't enough room in a 20 ga. shell to stack 00buck & that's why nobody loads it. I later looked in a reloading book & found the same info. There may be someone out there that makes up some kind of exotic load with special buffers, etc. & manages to get 00 into a 20 ga. but I haven't seen it. If I want a 00buck load, I reach for a 12 ga.

[35remington]

For any person who asks about such a thing, side by side stacking of double oughts in a 20 is pretty much impractical compared to the alternatives, and side by side stacking tends to not want to stay that way when processed through a reloading press.

If someone doesn't want to believe it when they read about such a thing, they are free to try it. Mylar wrap as opposed to wad petals makes a little bit more room, but doesn't turn a bad idea into a good one.

Too much space is still wasted.

[doubs43]

doubs43, what have you got against "Bill the Cat"?

Sorry for the drift. Inquiring minds want to know. James

I think Bill the Cat is one of the coolest cartoon characters EVER! Bloom County may have been the best cartoon EVER!

Nothing against Bill. I just think it's a neat avatar.

[doubs43]

[QUOTE=doubs43;1317260]The Brits favored their #5 shot (US #6) in a 12 gauge for thin-skinned dangerous game including lions and tigers. /QUOTE]


Why do you believe that to be true? If you read it somewhere, where?

It was a first hand account by a Brit in one of their gun magazines in the early 1980's that I read while stationed there. Gist of the story was that a rogue lion was killing people and a large party of hunters was gathered to find and kill it. Among the gathered was an elderly man with a 12 gauge double. In an effort to set him aside without hurting his feelings, they assigned him a stationary spot they thought was out of the way. Some time later a shot rang out from the old man's direction and it drew several of the hunters to his position. They found him sitting on a tree stump packing his pipe for a smoke. At his feet lay the dead lion with a charge of shot in his chest.... stopped cold in it's tracks.

The story went on to explain that the 12 gauge was often used by settlers in Africa to kill lions and in India to stop tigers at close range. The preferred shot was Brit #5 which is very close to our #6.

A one ounce charge is 437 grains. Two of those up close on any thin-skinned animal would be rather devastating. The 1 1/4 ounce #6 shot loads I keep in my shotgun at home is nearly 550 grains of pellets. Pretty effective IMO.

Edited: I had a look at Peter Hathaway Capstick's book "Last Horizons". He has a chapter entitled "Close Encounters of the Worst Kind" in which he talks about using shotguns against dangerous game. The story ran in "Guns & Ammo" in the December, 1983 issue. I think you'd find it interesting. The book can be found on abebooks rather cheaply.

[Arisaka99]

Thats a really good book, we have it at the school library, and I read it at least 1x a year

[doubs43]

Thats a really good book, we have it at the school library, and I read it at least 1x a year

Peter Hathaway Capstick was an excellent writer with great knowledge and firsthand experience of his subject matter. I have several of his books, have read others and all of them have been worth the time. His book "Man Eaters" calls attention to dangerous animals that many people overlook. I highly recommend it as an excellent read.

[STEVO55]

When I first got a 20 ga., I went looking for some 00 buck loads. I didn't find any after trying 4 or 5 stores. The biggest that I found was #3 buck. Eventually someone explained to me that there isn't enough room in a 20 ga. shell to stack 00buck & that's why nobody loads it. I later looked in a reloading book & found the same info. There may be someone out there that makes up some kind of exotic load with special buffers, etc. & manages to get 00 into a 20 ga. but I haven't seen it. If I want a 00buck load, I reach for a 12 ga.

20 gauge AA 2 3/4 hulls Cheddite primer
34 grains LilGun shot cup cut down to about 3/8" 8 x 00 pellets with instant grits filler tight fit just learning this load felt wad may be better

[DanishM1Garand]

I used to pour out shot and put 00 buck from spray paint cans from the dump as a kid. I used the lead shot to buffer the buck. My father would only buy #6 birdshot field loads for me as a kid. I used these 20 gauge duplex loads for groundhog killing. The .22 I had back then was minute of barn accuracy at best.

These 4 or 5 00 buck shot and filled with #6 were devastating on a groundhog.

[RMc]

See pages 36 and 37 for the Voluntary Industry Standards for conventional small pellet buckshot:

http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/Z299-2_ANSI-SAAMI_Shotshell.pdf

[MT Chambers]

It won't damage your barrel, however I would reload what ever buckshot size stacks the best in your hull/wad. Some sizes may leave a lot of empty space, other sizes may pack in there nice and tight.

[RMc]

It's probably been asked before, but does anyone load 00 for 20ga? I can use either 2 3/4 or 3in loads. All the hulls I have now are 2 3/4. I was told by a lady at a local gun shop that you cant shoot 00 because it will rip off your barrel. Now is it just me, or does it sound like BS? I don't know, but if you have any recipes, Ill be more than happy to use them!! ;)


Check this post for pellet per layer calculator:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?307365-Buckshot-pellets-per-layer

[GhostHawk]

Speaking for myself, Turbo your post was right on target, and awesome.

And stated exactly and precisely why.

In 40 years of hunting I have never seen 20 ga for sale with 00 buck. #3 was normal.

I do have some brass hulls (Magtech) loaded with #1's in 20, but have had no real push to go pattern them.

FYI the #1's are also my preferred load for 12 ga. They are a little lighter, which translates into lower recoil. More of a "Tactical" load. They pour 9 pellets of #1 in a wad in hull and you get 3 stacks of 3 with zero fiddling, stacking, or fussing. Being a little smaller there is more flexibility for different wads. I happen to like adding an overshot card punched out of milk jug plastic and a scoop of cornmeal for filler.

Neccessary probably not but it makes an awesome tight crimp that does not open up, does not leak or cause problems.

Every time I tried loading 00 I got bulges in the hull which made chambering in a pump debatable. So most of those got religated to feed the old single shot H&R. It doesn't mind. I'm not convinced that I could not dunk a 10 ga round in alum and shove it in there with a little grease and a solid shove. JK no I won't try it.

[6pt-sika]

I bought a flat of some Euro trash factory 20 gauge buckshot loads that were #1 buck . They'd probably do in a pinch , but the two 20 gauge SxS's I was shooting buckshot in liked handloaded #2 and #3 more .

[finstr]

#4 buck in my 20ga is pretty lethal on coyotes to 60 yards. I do have some 00 buck loaded but never needed to use them. I'd go right to a slug at that point I think.

[w5pv]

All the buckshot loads that I have seen for 20 gauge were commercial #4 which are lethal for deer,yotes and such.I loved my 3" 20 gauge.