Hornady Brass

[Frank]

This thread should be called Hornady Mfg. because the problem wasn't with their brass really. The problem was the way the company handled a problem. Getting Hornady to treat their customer the way a paying customer is supposed to be treated would be a solution to the problem. Unfortunately, we purchasers of components are on the bottom of the totem pole really with Hornady.

It starts off as a tiny thing like buying brass from an outlet, Midsouth Shooters. My 45/70 brass was kind of short in length, so I wanted to do a change out. I ordered a new Lee case trim spindle and opted for Hornady brass. Midsouth sent me 100 cases, but when I measured them they were really short, evidently designed for their FTX ammo. What the h? Doesn't a company care about quality control? So in a relaxed mode I called Hornady. I was told to put them in a box and UPS would pick it up. Great, now I have to go find a box, stuffing, packing tape and expect a pick-up. How delightful.

That was on 5/23. Today is 6/27 and would you believe, after a half a dozen calls back and forth, I not only still don't have my brass that I paid for, but I was told now that they wouldn't be sending me Hornady 45/70 brass? They were sending me Starline! I said to myself, "Hmmm, OK, Starline." I told the Hornady rep. "Fine." But now I check and that means if I get Starline brass, I am paying double for brass because it's cheaper. Hornady brass is supposed to better, like Norma, or Nosler. Right?

So I call back and can't get through. Remember, we reloaders are just sub-humans to these corporate creatures! I was able to get the switchboard operator to leave Customer Service a written note. "If you send me Starline, then send me 202 pieces. Because for what I paid, that's what I should be getting."

So what do you think will happen now? Will they make the adjustment? We are nothing to these companies. That's the point of this post. Lots of time, frustration and money spent, I'm treated like a subhuman and I still don't have anything. And even now when they offered me a solution, I got cheated.

I used to like Hornady. I shake my fist at Hornady now.

[subsonic]

Be carefull with .444 Marlin too...


I don't think Hornady makes full length brass in .45-70, .444 and mabye .450 any more. All the leverevolutoin brass is shorter. Guess what will happen when somebody who doesn't know this loads a max load with a non-FTX bullet in the shorter brass?

Starline brass is also good brass, maybe better.

You probably will receive 100 starline brass, which is actually going further than I would have guessed they would go. I'd have figured you'd just get a refund or voucher for an equivalent amount of Hornady product.

[Frank]

subsonic:
I don't think Hornady makes full length brass in .45-70, .444 and mabye .450 any more. All the leverevolutoin brass is shorter. Guess what will happen when somebody who doesn't know this loads a max load with a non-FTX bullet in the shorter brass?

The brass was 2.036". Should be 2.100". They did say it was a mix-up. But then...??? I paid $92 for 100 cases, waited a month and I'm getting $46 worth of brass?

Midway has it in stock. Is this short brass?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=771567

[Bret4207]

Why do you think Hornady brass is "better" than Starline? I've used both and see no difference between the the two. If you mean because the Hornady was more expensive...then I think you have a legitimate beef.

[6bg6ga]

It is easy to vent and bad mouth a company like Hornady on boards like this one. It takes more time however to compose a letter to the president of Hornady and send it out.

I have had dealings with large companies before and have found them to be responsive to consumer complaints.

Send a letter straight to the top and then criticize the company if it fails to respond to your complaint.

[MGySgt]

Over the last 5 years I have had multiple dealings with Hornady - but with their new deminsion dies and have had nothing but excellent customer support.

The last time I had problems with Hornady and brass was a number of years ago and it was with factory loaded 7mm mag. The belt was too long and would not load. The rep told me they would replace one for one and I told them I won't shoot any more of their 7mm Mag ammo. They swapped 2 boxes of loaded 7mm mag for 2 boxes of thier (then new) 350 FP meant for the marlin's 45/70. I loaded them and didn't look back!

I was a happy camper - they were not available in my area yet.

I am still a Hornady customer.

[Frank]

Their .475 brass has more consistent weights and neck wall thicknesses than Starline. Bret, look at the above link and read the description. Each case is supposed to be hand inspected. If that's true, then when it is in their hand, they need to measure the case length.

I don't want to fight with any company. But I'll tell you if somebody doesn't put their feet to the fire they will do this to hundreds. This applies not only to little rinky dink reloading companies, but to large corporations, industries and governments! Yes, we need to hold all of the above accountable for their service because we are the ones who are paying for it. It's when we fall into complacency, then that's when things go to pot.

Ha. "Write a letter to the company and beg." Ha, ha. That's funny. [smilie=l:

[subsonic]

Read the text in black bold print halfway down the right side of this link:

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ftx_load_data/45-70_1895-marlin_ftx.pdf

And click on any of these cartridges you want to see if they have to be cut down.

http://www.hornady.com/support/downloads/load-data

More than likely the trimmer at the hornady brass factory is only set to one length.....

The length in the drawing on the top length shows trim-to 2.040" Sounds pretty close to 2.036"

[btroj]

Hand inspected means it was looked at. No major dents. Has a flash hole. No splits in neck. In my opinion this does not mean it was measured. It fit the criteria set forth by Hornady so it was shipped.
I would ask this- does the slightly shorter length hurt anything? I would have no troubles using that brass. Then again, I would have just ordered Starline up front and never had a problem.

You received exactly what Hornady advertised. You should check to see what the terms used in the ad really mean. Assuming gets you, well, short brass. Chalk it up as a lesson learned.

[Frank]

45/70 brass is 2.100". The box should have indicated FTX brass. Hornady admitted that. They said they did wrong. It's OK now because they gave me refund. It's all good now. Like I said, Hornady brass has tight tolerances. Just watch out for their 45/70 brass. Go Hornady!

[bigboredad]

I have had zero problems when working with hornady and on two different occaisions they have made custom dies for me never charged me a dime for them and apologized all over themselves for my inconvenience. So maybe it's not Hornady
just sayin

[white eagle]

Frank
sounds like the same run around I got from Redding
sorry to hear that

[Frank]

bigboredad:
I have had zero problems when working with hornady and on two different occaisions they have made custom dies for me never charged me a dime for them and apologized all over themselves for my inconvenience. So maybe it's not Hornady
just sayin
Yeah, well you're just a troll and the above post proves it.

[Fishman]

bigboredad:
Yeah, well you're just a troll and the above post proves it.

Well, if a finer example of the pot calling the kettle black exists I have not seen it.

[Whitworth]

Who ever told you that Hornady brass was better than Starline? I prefer Starline......

[Frank]

Whitworth:
Who ever told you that Hornady brass was better than Starline? I prefer Starline......
On another caliber, Hornady shot better for me. I grabbed ten of each, weighted them and the Starline varied by 4 grains, Hornady by 1. Hornady claims their brass holds tight tolerances.

[ole 5 hole group]

Hornady produces excellent brass as does Starline. For the price I prefer Starline. I've spoken with Hornady's Customer Service several times over the years and have never been disappointed by them. In my opinion they are second to no one.

Hope everything works out for you Frank.

[Frank]

ole 5 hole group:
I've spoken with Hornady's Customer Service several times over the years and have never been disappointed by them. In my opinion they are second to no one.

But don't forget, squeaky wheel gets the grease. [smilie=p:

[bigboredad]

bigboredad:
Yeah, well you're just a troll and the above post proves it.

you just proved my point . One only has to reread your posts to see how you treat members on this board that disagree with you. So it is it would be completely out of your character to treat hornady any different. You immediately called me a name and made a personal attack. You lose Thank you for proving my point. I now expect you to come back with more name calling and personal attacks against me which will further prove my point.
You are a class act:popcorn:

[btroj]

Whitworth:
On another caliber, Hornady shot better for me. I grabbed ten of each, weighted them and the Starline varied by 4 grains, Hornady by 1. Hornady claims their brass holds tight tolerances.

Hornady CLAIMS there brass holds tight tolerances. First of all, it is a claiim. Market hype. Second, they may hold tight tolerances at a shorter length than you wanted. You assumed that what they were saying was the same as what you were hearing, big mistake. Marketing claims are made to sell a product, nothing more.

I am with Whitwoeth, bring on the Starline.

[felix]

The question is who makes the brass slugs, the extrusion dies, and who manages the process in making the cases. ... felix

[Whitworth]

45/70 brass is 2.100". The box should have indicated FTX brass. Hornady admitted that. They said they did wrong. It's OK now because they gave me refund. It's all good now. Like I said, Hornady brass has tight tolerances. Just watch out for their 45/70 brass. Go Hornady!

If I'm not mistaken, this is the only ammo Hornady produces in .45/70. If that is the case, it stands to reason that this is the only configuration of .45/70 brass that they will carry.

[subsonic]

.444 brass is quite a bit shorter. BE CAREFUL!

[44man]

Is it fear of a law suit when using longer brass then the bullet can use?
I have no idea but anyone that reloads should read instructions for a specific bullet.
Brass should be to specs and the loader should adjust.
Maybe Hornady is wrong, I don't know so maybe all of you should complain if they are.
Brass should always be right for the caliber at the start. We are not stupid.
Who in the world would use anything but cast anyway? [smilie=l:

[Frank]

btroj:
I am with Whitwoeth, bring on the Starline.

I already have it. Here's Starline at 100 yds. Remington does the same.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=3917

[bigboredad]

Nice shooting frank I am impressed and I apologize for my earlier out burst that was not called for

[Frank]

bigboredad:
Nice shooting frank I am impressed and I apologize for my earlier out burst that was not called for
No problem. I was kind of nasty too, bigboredad. My apologies. [smilie=l:

[bigboredad]

just glad you got what you need to make your loads work out

[Frank]

bigboredad:
just glad you got what you need to make your loads work out
Thanks.

44man:
Is it fear of a law suit when using longer brass then the bullet can use?


What if someone doesn't measure these 45/70 cases, uses a regular maximum 45/70 load and seats the bullet to the crimp groove?

[btroj]

Then they are an idiot. Who in their right mind buys new brass, from a different company, and goes right to a max load? Yep, an idiot.
Any change in components needs a reduction in charge and a new workup. I thought this was part or reloading 101.

[750k2]

If a company sells .45-70 brass it should meet Saami specs.
Yours did not and should be labeled as so.
Anyone want to buy 06 brass with a neck thickness of say .033":groner:

[Frank]

btroj:
Any change in components needs a reduction in charge and a new workup. I thought this was part or reloading 101.

750k2:
If a company sells .45-70 brass it should meet Saami specs.
Yours did not and should be labeled as so.
Anyone want to buy 06 brass with a neck thickness of say .033"

Components need to be labeled correctly. That is also a part of reloading 101. [smilie=p:

[btroj]

But it is YOUR responsibility to verify. I don't think there is a more basic rule in shooting or reloading than the fact that the shooter is responsible above all other for what he shoots.
I can agree that Hornady should label their brass as being short but that does not eliminate your role as the loader for verifying all components.
I am all for holding a manufacturer to task for the product they make but I have my role too. I do not rely upon any company for my safety- I verify for myself.

[bhn22]

A 45-70 case that is not manufactured to SAAMI specs, is not a 45-70 case to begin with. They are taking a serious risk selling them to the public. Hornadys plant is about an hour and a half from my house, you'd think Nebraska would be Hornady territory, but they won't even sell to dealers. Everything has to go through distributors, so the Nebraska dealers have to buy Hornady from out of state. I dealt with them once on a warranty. It was enough to make me see the error of dealing with them. I buy Dillon, Redding & RCBS exclusively now. Hornady has some funny ideas about how to treat end-users, & individual dealers. They only want the big boys.

[Frank]

btroj:
But it is YOUR responsibility to verify. I don't think there is a more basic rule in shooting or reloading than the fact that the shooter is responsible above all other for what he shoots.
I can agree that Hornady should label their brass as being short but that does not eliminate your role as the loader for verifying all components.
I am all for holding a manufacturer to task for the product they make but I have my role too. I do not rely upon any company for my safety- I verify for myself.
First thing I did was pull one case out of the box and check it. The man who wrote that Hornady ad should get a promotion. I need to write a recomendation letter and get it out to him. :coffee:

[btroj]

Well, the ad did sell you a product. Advertising is all about selling. No different than a political ad.