1911 Model 45 ACP / Which One?

[H110]

I have been wanting to purchase a 1911 model 45 acp. As you guys know there are many to choose from. Mtgun44 lead me to take a look at the Dan Wesson and I like the fit and finish.

My question is which brand do the rest of you guy's prefer and what mods have you made to the ones you own to improve performance?

Just want to gain some knowledge and information before I make my decision.

Thanks!

Randy

[Moonie]

The Dan Wesson is certainly a fine weapon, I've had Springfield, Kimber and currently a Taurus. I liked all 3 of them. Owned the Springfield the longest and did the most customizing on it. Owned the Kimber the shortest amount of time, due to a financial setback. Now I own the Taurus, it has almost everything already done to it that I had done (or did myself) to the Springfield.

All were fine, serviceable weapons. I view firearms as working tools though, not to appreciate in value or look at. I wouldn't own a firearm I wouldn't shoot regularly.

[shooterg]

I have Colt, AMT, Springfield, Remington/etc. . All work, I've come to the conclusion that I need one of every manufacturer to be complete....1911's are truly addictive.

[358wcf]

Wanted to get one while I still could- this being California, who knows when something will become unobtainium?
Being of the pursuasion that values accuracy, I demanded adjustable sights- so, when I found a new Kimber Eclipse Target II, I bought it-- great gun, but a little too "pretty" for my taste- so- I found a new Ed Brown Executive Target, and I bought it too! Fabulous pistols! Extremely high quality, accurate, easy to shoot well- I did mention that this level of quality carries a BIG pricetag, didn't I?
Take your wallet, buy the finest quality you can imagine, and be happy. Don't try to "build your own" unless you are an experienced gunsmith and have bucks to spare, as it is cheaper to let the factory build it for you- No, I will not part with either of them- my two sons-in-laws are discussing which of them gets which when I pass-
Of the two I own, I would choose the Ed Brown every day- I love that rich, deep blue finish, and Oh My, is it accurate- makes even me look like a good shot!

Chuck
358wcf [smilie=1:[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[pdawg_shooter]

COLT! All others are copies.

[harvester]

It can't be 1911 unless it says Colt on it. It could be a 1911 pattern though. Not splitting hairs just keeping it accurate.

[Shooter6br]

Saved my money and got a used Kimber Target II

[buck1]

Even a colt is a copy (sort of) .I would Get a Ruger!

[ColColt]

Even a colt is a copy (sort of) .I would Get a Ruger!

Agreed. The new Ruger is a fine looking 1911 and it's not made in Brazil but in the good ol' USA. I haven't had a 1911 in about ten years but if I get another the SR1911 will be the one. Colt's are ridiculous in price-always have been.

[Walt]

If you are serious about it buy one of the semi-custom guns from Wilson, Brown, Baer, etc. It will take some breaking in but, IMO the Les Baer Premier II is the best bang for the buck in a good 1911.

[btroj]

Why don't you just ask a si ple question- like blonde or brunette?
This is a question with no right answer. It depends on your needs, likes, and budget. I have Colt Gold Cup and really like it. Meets my expectations and needs. Runs fine with many different loads.

[2 dogs]

Les Baer. Mine out of the box has been flawless. Accurate as all get out. You wouldnt think a pistol built so tightly would run like a scalded cat but it does. A lifetime pistol for the money.

I was also pretty impressed with the new Smith E series gun.

In any case, I would avoid any 1911 with the series 80 style safety ****!

[LVRFAN]

Ummm... I'm no expert on the subject, but I do believe J.M. Browning was working FOR Colt at the time of it's developement-- and COLT made the original weapons FOR the U.S. Therefore it seems to me that anything else IS a copy. Period. Now I know alot of you guys like to bad mouth Colt for making over-priced junk but the fact remains-- if you want the REAL deal, it better have a little pony on it. I only have about a dozen 1911's now and they are pretty well evenly split between Colt, Kimbers, and Springfields. If I could only keep one though, it would be one of the Colts.

[DanWalker]

I started with a Norinco 1911, bought from the Lejeune PX in 1992. I had a few custom touches like an oversized safety and some pachy grips put on it. Carried it for several years, including as a primary carry gun when doing dignitary and high value personnel protection. You should have heard some of the comments I got when the Generals or their parents found out I was packing a CHINESE 45!
My next 1911 was a full size Smith and Wesson. It was a tremendously accurate gun and would routinely put 5 shots into an oblong hole at 15 yards when my offhand shooting was up to snuff.
I sold it to a good friend who needed a reliable nightstand gun.
I'm now carrying a Kimber ultra carry. I've done nothing to it. It needed nothing. I loaded some 200 grain swc's over 4 grains of red dot, and proceeded to smack golf balls at silly distances, with almost boring regularity.

[pdawg_shooter]

Some one finally found something a golf ball was good for!

[EMC45]

I have a Springfield 1911A1 Mil Spec. It is one of the older ones that does not have IMBEL stamped on it. It has aftermarket grips, trigger, magazines, and MSH on it. That is it. I have been told that I "had" to have a beavertail and ambi safeties on it.....I shoot right handed and don't get hammer bite. I don't see the need for them. This pistol will shoot. I usually just load it up with 4.5gr. BE under a 230gr. TC Lee bullet and let it rip.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have a Colt 1911 in 38Super and a Norinco 1911 in 9mm. Talk about a vast difference in price, but they both work well. Mags on the Norinco are crappy, but work well enough. The Colt mags are poetry in motion.

If you have big hands, I'd skirt around the 1911A1 variants, those suckers bite! The beavertails are nice!

[Char-Gar]

I have a Colt GM and two Norinco 1911A1s. I am happy with all three.

You are limited only by your tolerance for spending money. If, I was looking for a good 1911 with all the right features for a decent price I would look at the Taurus or the new Ruger.

If I wanted to spend more, I would buy a Colt or a Smith and Wesson. My tolerance for spending money stops at that level.

[spqrzilla]

Two, two and a half decades ago, Colt was the quality manufacturer in this market. I'm still shooting my Combat Government. But today, I wouldn't buy Colt. Others give better value, others give better quality and features at Colt's price point.

[FWest]

I like my Remmington R1. Added a WC magwell and pachmayer wrap around rubber grips. Made in USA as far as I know. I shoot Lee 230 TC tumble lube boolits. No issues other than the sights loosened up after 1000 or so. Nothing a .050 allen could not fix.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/frankwest/SAM_0264.jpg

[wildcatter]

The Dan Wesson is a nice gun, but if spending that much money you are only 3 or 4 hundred from the best 1911 ever built, I would go with the Les Baer! The most accurate and reliable 1911 money can buy and you can spend more but can't buy better, and nothing on the planet holds its value better! The only 1911 available with a 1.5" 50 yard accuracy guarranty, nothing starts tighter or stays tighter!!
Here is my p II 1.5"erhttp://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu266/saumbi/XD7P4684.jpg

[bobthenailer]

I have 1911s from Colt , Caspian , Springfield Armory and Para Ordance all are excellent guns

[btroj]

I am sure that Baer produces a fine gun but it is way beyond the means for many. I can afford one but chose not to. I chose to stick with a less expensive gun. Mine may not be guaranteed to shoot 1.5 inches at 50 yards but I don't often shoot 50 yards so I don't care.
We all have ideas of the "perfect" gun but budget must always be taken I to account. The OP needs to find something that fits his needs, his wants, and most of all, his budget.

[35remington]

"Two, two and a half decades ago, Colt was the quality manufacturer in this market. I'm still shooting my Combat Government. But today, I wouldn't buy Colt. Others give better value, others give better quality and features at Colt's price point."

Since Colts are actually better than they were two and a half decades ago, somebody obviously hasn't bought a Colt lately.

It was the 70's and early 80's Colts that marked a low point for the manufacturer. They've had a turnaround in quality and now are quite a good value for their price and are certainly competitive with other makes......bar none.

Interestingly, if you had to name a time to avoid a Colt, it would have been in the timeframe you mentioned as their "quality manufacture" era. The better Colt is made now, not then.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I like my Remmington R1. Added a WC magwell and pachmayer wrap around rubber grips. Made in USA as far as I know. I shoot Lee 230 TC tumble lube boolits. No issues other than the sights loosened up after 1000 or so. Nothing a .050 allen could not fix.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/frankwest/SAM_0264.jpg

I'd love one of those as I have a whole passel of Remington 788s and 700s! But we can't be trusted with 45 autos any more and Remington dosen't produce 38Supers or 9mms, D'Oh!!! :(

[MtGun44]

No question, the Baer 1911s are very good guns. BUT ---

The price gap between DW and Baer is far more than a few hundred. The DW is fully the
equal of the Baer for more like $1000 or more less money. A Baer is a high quality gun but
I find the ridiculous 'hard fit' that he uses to be irritating in the extreme and completely
unnecessary. Check a DW, they are absolutely smooth from lock to open, NO hangup,
unlike the Baers. Having to hold the slide in one hand and smack the grip HARD to
unlock a 1911 is just plain wrong IMO. A friend has two of them and I am familiar
with Baer 1911s. To me the amazing part of the DW 1911s is that they fully equal to the
Baer, Brown and Wilson semi-custom guns for at least $1000 less, and up to $2000 less
depending on exact models being compared.

Bill

[Four Fingers of Death]

I had a look at the DWs, looking good!

[quasi]

Are the Dan Wesson's made in the Philippines, how about the STI's?

[squirrelnuttz]

First trip out, half break in rounds (jacketed) put through my new Para 1911 GI Expert in .45 today.A couple of faliure to feeds, but to be expected, I think.Round hung up on the ramp halfway through cycling into the chamber.It was honestly more plinking and getting a handle on it, more patterns than groups, but very fun!I LOVE new gun day. Okay, it got some company, a lightly used GSG 1911 .22 today as well. The twins so to speak. I'm happy with both. But a couple hundred through the .22. My first plunge into pistol shooting. I've just got to get the rest of the brass emptied so I can load up some boolits from my new-to me H+G mould. 195 gr. of WW+ 2% pewter.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Are the Dan Wesson's made in the Philippines, how about the STI's?

The Dan Wesson brand is owned by CZ now. I saw the initial videos about the brand being resurrected, but I cannot remember where they are being built for the life of me.

[NickSS]

I have owned numerous 1911s including a couple of custom ones built by a guy Named Cart back 35 years ago. I own five of them today from 5 different makers/omporters including Kimber, Taurus, Rock Island Arsenal, Auto Ordinance and Citidel. The RIA and Citidel pistols are made in the same factory in the Philipines and are identical ecepst for the markings. They all shoot about the same accuracy wise and they all function fine with a variety of loads. The Kimber cost the most by nearly double and I really can not see any great difference as far as accuracy, and handling. In my opinion it is over priced for what you get. The best bang for the buck is the Taurus if you are into custom features as it comes standard with a ton of them. If you want a good plain pistol for carry I like my RIA 3.5 inch officers model a lot. It is enough smaller and lighter to make carrying it less of a burden than a full sized one.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My Norinco and my Colt both shoot well and are near enough the same in function and accuracy (the Norinco mags work well enough, but are a bit of an eyesore). The Colt cost heapssssssssssssss more than teh Norinco.

I have a mate who has a Taurus 1911, he carries his 9mm ammo to the range in a mil sup ammo tin and it is full when it arrives and empty when he goes home. He reckons the Taurus doesn't miss a beat.

[captaint]

I can only tell you all what I've done. First I have an orig 1911 - not in teriffic shape. Then we have a 1911A1, rem rand. Very good shape and I love it. Then we got a Les Baer. Certainly a very nice gun. Then, when talking to Bill (Mtgun44) I decided to get a Dan Wesson Pointman. You'll never need to do any mods on a Les Baer or Dan Wesson. The Dan Wesson cost about 400 bux less than the Baer. I'm still in the process of trying to make the Baer outshoot the Dan Wesson. There must be some load that the Baer will shoot better than the Dan Wesson, but I haven't found it yet.
The Wesson's are produced by CZ and hand fitted in NY in final assembly. They're both dam fine guns. Wouldn't change a thing about either one. Mike

[mtgrs737]

A Les Baer Premier II is my dream gun, but one I will most likely never own due to the cost. I have had a Colt, Springfield Armory, and a Taurus PT1911. I am impressed with what you get for the money in the Taurus PT1911, a lot of feature for the bucks. I bought mine used from a member here and am very pleased with it.

[ColColt]

If you'd like to take out a loan a Wilson would probably be a good investment but, I wouldn't buy one. I can't see purchasing ANY weapon that cost more than five times what my first car was and no, it's wasn't a Model A.

[Lloyd Smale]

sti is made in texas with the exception of the spartan which is made in the phillipeans or some such third world country. I feel the same way about stis as some here do dw. Shoot and handle a sti trojan for a 1000 bucks and ill bet you wont be shelling out twice that for a baer again. Ive had two and youd swear the slides ran on ball bearings.
Are the Dan Wesson's made in the Philippines, how about the STI's?

[Lloyd Smale]

sti is made in texas with the exception of the spartan which is made in the phillipeans or some such third world country. I feel the same way about stis as some here do dw. Shoot and handle a sti trojan for a 1000 bucks and ill bet you wont be shelling out twice that for a baer again. Ive had two and youd swear the slides ran on ball bearings.
Are the Dan Wesson's made in the Philippines, how about the STI's?

[MtGun44]

DWs are put together by individual gunsmiths in NY state. CZ has been trying to
increase production (~4000 per year) but has difficulty with the skilled labor pool where
they are now, apparently can't move the plant easily either.

All US made parts, many are top stuff like Ed Brown. Assembled one at a time by
people that care and really know what they are doing.

As to price, I bought my first Gold Cup for $400 in 1980. THe DW Pointman 7 cost
me $900, and with inflation, it was CHEAPER than the old Gold Cup and FAR better
gun in every way. Unfortunately, prices are sliding upward, I'd guess you'd pay $1200 or
more for the Ptman 7 today.

Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

I want some 400 dollar gold cups!!!!!

[MtGun44]

Back in the day. Long gone now. Of course, $400 was pretty hard to come buy back
then, too. For me harder than $900 is now.

Bill

[Mavrick]

I happened into a store a while back, and they had a Firestorm sitting in the case. It was new, and it fit my hand so I bought it. Hmmm, $666+ odd pennies, OTD. I call it my "Evil Pistol." The cost was with 2 spare magazines, a Jaqui Slide, tax and Brady-check.
It is a a full-frame, with a Commander hammer. It has a large three-dot sight, front and rear finger-striations, extended slide-release, and extended safety.
It was made on CNC machines in the Filipines. The first 5k slipped through it so fast I almost lost count. The only way I could get it to FTF was to leave some of the powder out of the cartridge. Except for the factory test load, every round has been a cast-boolit handload, and it's coming up on 10k. not too bad for 2 1/2 years, huh?
I tried to find another, as a couple of m' buds wanted one, too, but they're apparently not made now. They are called a Classic II, now.
I hope you're as happy with what you get as I am with what I did.
Have fun,
Gene

[DanWalker]

Back in the day. Long gone now. Of course, $400 was pretty hard to come buy back
then, too. For me harder than $900 is now.

Bill
I hear you Bill.
When I bought my Norinco, my gross monthly salary was less than a third of what I now pay in income taxes every month!
Guess the taxes are just a "reward" for decades spent busting my butt, instead of just sitting on it, whining about how hard life is. Aint socialism great?

[Changeling]

Whats the chances that the DW will remain that "Well Made" now that CZ owns them? To many time I've seen companies taken over and the product go down the drain.

Don't read into this that I think CZ is a bad company, but they are all getting greedy!

[tonyjones]

I just checked out the Dan Wesson pistols on CZ's website. They list from $1,275 to $2,040. For those prices I think I'll stick with Clark Custom.

Tony

[Walt]

I have been wanting to purchase a 1911 model 45 acp. As you guys know there are many to choose from. Mtgun44 lead me to take a look at the Dan Wesson and I like the fit and finish.

My question is which brand do the rest of you guy's prefer and what mods have you made to the ones you own to improve performance?

Just want to gain some knowledge and information before I make my decision.

Thanks!

Randy
My thoughts....
I don't see anything here about a price even being considered at this point. It seems like that is all that is being talked about here now. If you don't want to pony up for a nice hand fitted pistol that's OK but you don't need to bash the folks that do. Some folks take pride in ownership of their guns. My guess is that anyone on this site that really wants a $2000 pistol can buy one. We have all got computers and pay for the internet every month! You may have to cut some corners and save for awhile but you can do it. Randy also asked about mods to our guns. This is another place where the semi-custom guns shine. If one wants something different on a certain model Baer for instance, Les will fix you up. Want to change from a flat MSH to an arched, long trigger to a short, single side safety to an ambi, no sweat. Try that with a Rock Island. Fact is if you want something special the semi-custom is the way to go. You can buy a $500 RIA and dump another $500 into it making it want you want on the kitchen table. Then you can resell it for $300 when you find out it really wasn't what you wanted afterall.
Walt

[btroj]

You fail to recognize that CAN pay 2000 dollars and WILL pay it are not the same. My FIL would love the fit and finish of a fine firearm. He shoots mostly mil surps. It is not as much what he can afford but what he chooses to afford.

My statement was to get what first his needs and his budget. Sound advice in my opinion. Not everyone wants a different MSH or trigger. No everyone wants the bells and whistles. Some want a plain 1911 because it is like what they remember from the service. Is there anything wrong with that?
It seems every time this question comes up it becomes a cases of "If isn't a 1500 dollar plus semi or full custom gun it sucks" rant. I can't stand it. If there was not a market for inexpensive 1911s then there wouldn't be so many companies fighting over that market. Someone is buying those guns.

I say it again- get something that fits your needs and budget. For plinking you don't need 1.5 inch 50 yard accuracy. Don't fall into the trap that is marketing hype. Get something, learn to make it work, and go have fun.

[HeavyMetal]

Kid at work has a $500 credit at one of the local gun shops.

Asked me what I thought about the current crop of pistols on the market, he's wanting a 45 and a 9, trying to decide which first.

Advised Taurus PT 1911 or CZ 75 best bang for buck in either caliber! He'll still have to add a little to cover costs but he's got the big chunk down already so it shouldn't be a problem.

Told him to avoid the plastic guns like the plage!

Can't remember buying a pistol and not detail stripping it before the first round was fired to clean and lube it. Amazing what one can find in a gun when it's been stripped to the bare frame!

I will second the idea that building your own 1911 from parts is not as easy as it sounds! I've done it twice and each time found that a lot of "drop in" parts don't!

Buy a complete gun then adjust to suit. Stay away from "gadgets" like "rails" what a joke! Try to holster a gun with a flash light clamped on the end of it!

Some up grades can be handy "IF" you need them! Ambi safety if your a lefty is an absolute must! If your shoot right then a safety that is big enough to use is all you need.

I favor full length recoil spring guides as it keeps the slide from riasing when fired ( streching frame rails each time) and helps in a small way to keep the spring from binding and extends it life some what.

Not as fond of Beaver tail grip safeties as I am a GS that spreads the recoil impluse out across the top of the hand. The stock 1911 GS will give me that "drive a nail into my hand" impression after a hard day at the range.

Same with the "arched" main spring housing except in the heel of the hand! Flat main spring housing is the first, and I mean first, change I make in a 1911 if it has the arched housing!

Sights can be adjustable or fixed, no prefference here, just as long as they are big enough to be seen. Hate all the three dot, straight eight, you name it stuff they paint and or add to sights to make them easy to see!

Before everyone went to some type of dot sight all the big name shooters, and many not so big name local winners, found out that plain black sights were the best for all shooting conditions! Three Dot sights, and all the rest of that faldaral, are nothing more than an attempt to substitute a "gadget" for the one thing we all need PRACTISE!

Having said all that I'll apologise if this sounds like a "rant" ( it wasn't meant to) and once again state that the Tuarus is, this morning anyway, the best bang for the buck on the market in a 1911 platform.

[Lonerider]

I have the Taurus PT 1911 and for my applications, its just fine. I purposely did not want a "tight' gun. Though my PT 1911 is pretty tight for me, barely any movement on slide/frame at all. I wanted something that was realiable if it got a little dirty in the field and still go boom when I pull the trigger (sometimes...from what I heard and read .... the expensive 'tight' guns can run into problems, with the slightest bit of dust/dirt, causing them to mal-function. I have not found this to be the case with my PT 1911. I was/am not intrested in a sub moa at 25, 50 or what ever yards.

As mentioned before, while in the navy, used the Remington Rand's that rattle like crazy but kept on shooting.

For me at the time, the PT 1911 was/is the best bang for the buck for around $500. I know there may be better and more costly 1911's but I am satisfied with what I have.

Lonerider

[ole 5 hole group]

A good general rule is: you usually get what you pay for. I imagine you paid a little and got a lot; a couple times in your lifetime, but as a general rule you don’t find quality cheaply. Depending upon your shooting skills you may or may not be able to take advantage of a well setup and expensive pistol’s capabilities.

Some individuals enjoy shooting at small objects and expect to hit their target the majority of the time while coming damn close the rest of the time. Some individuals enjoy shooting at larger targets and aren’t as anal relative to accuracy and possessing a pistol shooting consistent 4 to 5 inch groups at 25 yards suits them just fine.

I started shooting a Civilian Marksmanship Unit/Program loaned GI45 at stripped gophers back in the late 50’s and only hit a few of them on the run, as they had to “find” that slug because I couldn’t hit them standing still!! Those ole 45’s were reliable feeders but accuracy beyond 10 yards wasn’t their forte.

Times have changed and the semi-custom pistols are made to shoot at real small objects – it just takes a pisterlo to hit those very small targets. Speaking for myself, I like my Baer, which is the PII model with 1.5” guarantee built in 2000 but really don’t appreciate their “hard fit”. I really like those small groups off the bench and I still shoot at small “varmints” off my hind legs at moderate to extreme ranges and I can miss them just as easy as I could with the ole GI 45.

To answer the OP’s question – if I were new to the 45 market and looking for my 1st 45 pistol – I’d probably go with the Ruger that just came out. American made and it shoots very well. If you ever find yourself wanting or needing more accuracy then you can move up but by then you will have a lot more knowledge from years of shooting that Beauty to know what you want and need to spend in order to achieve your desired goals.

[ColColt]

My first 45 Auto was a Colt Series 70 Mark IV. I bought it for $159.95 from Builder's Hardware in Charlotte, NC back around 1972....precious memories. I remember the price so well as I had to fill out a report about it being stolen and it's serial number and value. I got it back, would you believe, ten years later. I sold it as it was used in the commission of a murder in San Raphael, CA and that just bothered me. It made a long trip across country but, I was amazed I even got it back again.

It was a great shooter if you used hardball. The feed ramp wasn't throated like they did them later.

[Walt]

You fail to recognize that CAN pay 2000 dollars and WILL pay it are not the same. My FIL would love the fit and finish of a fine firearm. He shoots mostly mil surps. It is not as much what he can afford but what he chooses to afford.

My statement was to get what first his needs and his budget. Sound advice in my opinion. Not everyone wants a different MSH or trigger. No everyone wants the bells and whistles. Some want a plain 1911 because it is like what they remember from the service. Is there anything wrong with that?
It seems every time this question comes up it becomes a cases of "If isn't a 1500 dollar plus semi or full custom gun it sucks" rant. I can't stand it. If there was not a market for inexpensive 1911s then there wouldn't be so many companies fighting over that market. Someone is buying those guns.

I say it again- get something that fits your needs and budget. For plinking you don't need 1.5 inch 50 yard accuracy. Don't fall into the trap that is marketing hype. Get something, learn to make it work, and go have fun.

btroj,
You are missing the point. The OP asked what we shot and if we did any mods to our guns. He did not ask anyone about helping him with his budget. Read Randy's post. Your first answer that you liked your Gold Cup was what he is looking for.
Sincerely, Walt

[Lonerider]

I have to admit, if I was going to be buying my first 1911 as an entry level gun, I sure would consider the ruger 1911....about the same price as my PT1911....but made in the USofA. At the time I bought my Taurus PT 1911.....there was no model close to the 'extras' of the PT at the same price.

I only wish that Ruger would make her in Blue....I would buy one in a heart beat....if the frames were forged and not stamped.

Lonerider

[MtGun44]

Changeling -

I know the people making the decisions at CZ and BELIEVE it that they are VERY
committed to maintaining the high quality that they have in their DW 1911s. It is
not easy for them, but they really DO know what they have and are trying to increase
production volume while retaining quality. Last I spoke with them they were just
accepting that to keep the quality up they just couldn't increase production and were
OK with that.

As long as you don' mind dealing with crooks, I guess Clark Custom is OK. Check into
how many times they have been sued or threatened with lawsuit for patent infringement.
Maybe with the daughter running things they have cleaned up their act. I know of several
cases of blatant patent infringement under the old man, years ago. May be clean as driven
snow now, but I'll never be a customer.


Bill

[Changeling]

Changeling -

I know the people making the decisions at CZ and BELIEVE it that they are VERY
committed to maintaining the high quality that they have in their DW 1911s. It is
not easy for them, but they really DO know what they have and are trying to increase
production volume while retaining quality. Last I spoke with them they were just
accepting that to keep the quality up they just couldn't increase production and were
OK with that.

As long as you don' mind dealing with crooks, I guess Clark Custom is OK. Check into
how many times they have been sued or threatened with lawsuit for patent infringement.
Maybe with the daughter running things they have cleaned up their act. I know of several
cases of blatant patent infringement under the old man, years ago. May be clean as driven
snow now, but I'll never be a customer.


Bill


Bill, 1 time years ago, but absolutely never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shooter]

COLT! All others are copies.

+1, what he said.

[wildcatter]

I am sure that Baer produces a fine gun but it is way beyond the means for many. I can afford one but chose not to. I chose to stick with a less expensive gun. Mine may not be guaranteed to shoot 1.5 inches at 50 yards but I don't often shoot 50 yards so I don't care.
We all have ideas of the "perfect" gun but budget must always be taken I to account. The OP needs to find something that fits his needs, his wants, and most of all, his budget.

The standard Les Baer P II retails for $1790.00 and can be had street price for $1525.00, add $100.00 for the Stainless, Dan Wesson prices range for a same feature gun is the valor, your looking at a retail price of $1594.00 and I would assume street price would be around $1250.00 to $1300.00. So since the original question was about the Dan Wesson I suggest a couple hundred more and you have a 1911 with a better resale value and one that is proven to hold up for 50 to 70 thousand rounds without shooting loose! I would not drop over a grand on a 1911 and not find the other 2 or 3 hundred for the Baer, just me. You can spend more but I defy you to find one that shoots better and be more reliable!!!

[MtGun44]

Side by side the DW is the equal of the Baer without the hardfit lockup, IMO. Used to be
a much larger price difference, my friend's Baer was over $2500 and my DW was $925.

Sounds like Baer is moving down to compete with DW, and I know DW has not been able
to hold the older prices.

"You pays yer money and you takes yer choice!"

Bill