9mm 147 gr. mold

[Spud]

I'm looking to start casting 147 gr boolits in my SR9c for practice since I use this weight for concealed carry. Been looking at the Lyman 356637 which I really like, except for the bevel base, and the RCBS 9mm-FN offering which has the desired flat base. Gun feeds everything thus far, (including 147 FN lead commercial boolits) so that probably won't be an issue. Anyone have experience with either of these boolits? Sure wish the Lyman had a FB as I prefer the single lube groove style. Prefer to stick with these brands as I'm set up with handles and am too old (and cheap) to change. Actually if Lee offered this weight in 9mm I probably experiment with that, but they don't. Whatcha think? Thanks.

One other thing: why does spell check here try to correct me when I type "boolit/s" here?

[deltaenterprizes]

Life is a beach ain't it? It looks like you are in a pickle, but in the end it will cost a couple of bucks to get what you want. Look at a Magma mold, they are not much more than an RCBS and will fit RCBS handles and the boolit has a FP and single grease groove!
But it is only 135 gr with the flat base. SAECO has a 147 RN without the FP and single grease groove.

[Spud]

Thanks, DE. I looked at the SAECO's already. I'm not completely against the RCBS mold, just prefer a single lube groove. Mebbee someone who has it can talk me into (or out of) it. Or perhaps someone has some ideas about using my lubricator with the Lyman boolit without too much mess. I really like the looks of the Lyman design. What the hey, mebbee I'll just get the Lyman and live with the mess. Decisions, decisions.

[bhn22]

try BRP. IIRC, Bruce has one in the 135 gr range that might work for you.


http://www.brp.castpics.net/P1.html

[deltaenterprizes]

The 147gr 9mm boolits really need the bevel base because of the length inside the case the boolit runs into the thick part of the web of the case.

[MtGun44]

Why use such a heavy boolit in 9mm? The case capacity is very short and the LOA limit
of the magazine prevents pushing very much outside, so you are likely to be raising pressures
and running into even more limited powder capacity. So - lots of headaches are necessary
to sort out - and what is the payoff?

Bill

[Spud]

Why use such a heavy boolit in 9mm?

Bill Like I said:

"I'm looking to start casting 147 gr boolits in my SR9c for practice since I use this weight for concealed carry."

I'm carrying Federal 147 gr. LE HST's. These are used by some LE agencies who use the 9mm for duty. Others besides me use heavy 9mm boolits, Hickok45 to name one fairly well-known example. Have already loaded many commercial heavy cast boolits at this weight with no pressure problems as I'm very careful and am quite aware of the potentialities in the 9mm platform.

Thanks for your concern, though. BTW, been casting (and loading) my own for 30+ years.

edit: oh, I get it. You saw "Boolit Buddy" and possibly came to an incorrect conclusion. Aha.

[MtGun44]

Yes on the boolit buddy, and just that any time you are running out in the
'non standard' area for a cartridge, you pick up additional risk of problems,
esp for newbies. Was thinking that maybe sticking to a std wt for a first try
might avoid some issues.

That was why the question. For just practice, I tend to go for the "easiest",
but since you are duplicating a particular round, it makes since.

I use 124 gr in my 9mms for serious social purposes, don't know much about
the 147s other than they are apparently controversial, some swearing by them and
some swearing at them. Never tried one, so no personal opinion.

[deltaenterprizes]

147 gr 9mm loads were developed for surpressed 9mm semiauto pistols like the "hushpuppy" , a S&W mod 59 with a supressor attached, to achieve subsonic velocity. I don't know if they cycled the action or not. 147s got popular when LEOs switching to 9mm craze started in the mid 1980s and were touted to" improve performance"(better penetration). My feelings were that it just made a high capacity 38 SP out of a 9mm .
I like to shoot them in Glocks because of the larger bearing surface area they grip the rifling better.

[z4lunch]

Ive had 147's function fine...with light loads. I.. would never load it heavy with that weight boolit. Mostly shoot H&G 81's and a vintage Ideal 356402
my 2cnts
Steve

[Artful]

147 gr 9mm loads were developed for surpressed 9mm semiauto pistols like the "hushpuppy" , a S&W mod 59 with a supressor attached, to achieve subsonic velocity. I don't know if they cycled the action or not. 147s got popular when LEOs switching to 9mm craze started in the mid 1980s and were touted to" improve performance"(better penetration). My feelings were that it just made a high capacity 38 SP out of a 9mm .
I like to shoot them in Glocks because of the larger bearing surface area they grip the rifling better.

So called Hushpuppy =
Modified S&W 39 with slide lock (Mk22) with WOX 1A silencer with wipes

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/StaceyC123/Mk22Mod0001.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/4982/gun7em9.jpg[/quote]

it was issued with a heavier bullet that 147 grn - at almost proof load pressures. The Slide lock was tough on the guns - slide and frame cracks were not unknown.
This was special issue to military for removal of sentry and his dog (though many in SE Asia used ducks for warning) -
as the saying goes it was "Movie quiet"
(this expression was actually from OSS agent following a target into a theater and shooting him with a 32 welrod when a noiser section of the movie was playing and people around never noticed any extra noise)

- each Mk 22 Mod 0 weapon kit was issued with 50 rounds of FMJ ammo, Pistol with suppressor, and an extra set of wipes-
as about 25 rounds fired thru a set of wipes caused it to be too loud and it ceased to be useful until wipes were changed.

More modern verison was designed for use with M9 pistol by Knights Armament
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Beretta-KAC-7-2878-1024x795.jpg
notice slide lock, making a single shot but quietest possible mode of operation

You can get similar performance with 147 grn subsonic loads in pistols equiped with todays small "wet" wiped cans,
or used with 158 grn IMI isreali or 158 grn Fiocchi in longer barrel (147 can go supersonic in as long/short as 10")

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/50rds-9mm-fiocchi-158gr-subsonic-fmj-ammo

vidoe's
DTA Nano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbjxBDn-GiE

Thompson Machine Poseidon
http://www.youtube.com/user/panaceabeachbum#p/u/21/p3FXHb_scos

showing advantage of wiped 9mm can used on 22LR
http://www.youtube.com/user/panaceabeachbum#p/u/17/ofXt3iD2pwA

OH, and the 147 grain loading was developed after the 9mm FBI issue ammo failed to penetrate enough in the "Miami" shoot out -
The FBI looked for solution to get more stopping power out of their issue sig's before they turned to the 10 & 40 solutions

- before that only the CIA and the Isreali's were true heavy bullet 9mm fan's.
The CIA actually issued a kit with short threaded P38 barrel and Suppressor, wipes and ammo
- The agent was to procure his own "clean" pistol in the field.

I still miss being able to buy the 50 round pasteboard boxes printed to look like wooden crates of 158 IMI ammo.

[deltaenterprizes]

Thanks for the pics, I was told it was a mod 59 by a guy that used one, he could have been wrong but he bought a Devel mod 59 conversion because he said it was the same gun he used in Vietnam., but I wasn't there so I can't be sure! He also had a supressed Sten.

[Artful]

In SE Asia a lot of guns tuned up an quite a few suppressors as well. The problem with HushPuppy is it's a Generic term used by a lot of different folk to describe pretty much any weapon used with a suppressor to take out tunnel rats or anyone else quietly. I have no doubt he may have gotten a Model 59 if he was there after 1970 when production started, the US Navy was unhappy with the way salt water effected the aluminum 39 frame and the cracks caused by the slide lock and the guys in the field wanted larger magazine so the Navy put out a request for a Stainless steel gun taking the browning Highpower P35 magazine. That was I think in 66 or 67 - took S&W a few years to get around to it.

- I have seen pictures of many guns I didn't expect to see in VN on soldiers - .357 revolvers, 45 acp revovlvers, 44 magnum revolvers, Chicom Tokarov's, P38's, FN P35's, Silenced Deslile Carbines, 458 win Mag Safari grade bolt actions, 460 Weatherby bolt guns - the magnums were used by USAF security when the VC took to hiding behind concrete abuttments around bases the 223 and 308 wouldn't penetrate and for some reason they didn't want to use the 50 BMG so someone ordered up the big magnums to penetrate thru evidently - Sniper rifles were off the rack Winchester Model 70's and Remington 700's with Redfield hunting scopes.
Not to mention AK47's used by US Army personel - Silenced M2 Carbines - Silenced Spanish Destroyer 9mm Largo carbines converted to 45 ACP - Silenced 1911's - Silenced M3 grease guns, Silenced Swedish K's, Silenced AR15/M16's,
- It's surpising what will turn up when someone feels the need to get the job done and be sure to get himself back home.

[Artful]

I'm looking to start casting 147 gr boolits in my SR9c for practice since I use this weight for concealed carry. Been looking at the Lyman 356637 which I really like, except for the bevel base, and the RCBS 9mm-FN offering which has the desired flat base. Gun feeds everything thus far, (including 147 FN lead commercial boolits) so that probably won't be an issue. Anyone have experience with either of these boolits? Sure wish the Lyman had a FB as I prefer the single lube groove style. Prefer to stick with these brands as I'm set up with handles and am too old (and cheap) to change. Actually if Lee offered this weight in 9mm I probably experiment with that, but they don't. Whatcha think? Thanks.

One other thing: why does spell check here try to correct me when I type "boolit/s" here?

Dude sorry I don't see my response to your question :oops:
I have a 4 cavity of the lyman flat point for 147 grain - you can use a little over 3.6 grains of VV N320 - (N340 is a little slower and works better but is noisier suppressed) - I have not tried RCBS's - and I use lots of plated FN 147's for suppressed use. One thing you may need to do is segregate your brass as someone has already mentioned the case walls differ quite a bit on 9mm and on larger deaply seated bullets it can sometimes cause problems. :bigsmyl2:

[max it]

Why use such a heavy boolit in 9mm? The case capacity is very short and the LOA limit
of the magazine prevents pushing very much outside, so you are likely to be raising pressures
and running into even more limited powder capacity. So - lots of headaches are necessary
to sort out - and what is the payoff?

Bill

HI Guys, You are too sophisticated in most of these replies. However I can weigh in on why: it's a soft recoil. I use mine in a Springfield XD9-tactical for Steel reactive competition shooting. Mould is by MiHec. I am surprised to learn here why they are beveled. No matter they lube on my Lyman #45 Lubrisizer fine at .356, .357, and 358" (out of the mould they are .359").

Happy 4th,

Max

[Spud]

Dude sorry I don't see my response to your question :oops: Thanks Artful & max it, was wonderin' if I'd find someone who actually uses either of these molds.

Thanks also to all who responded.

Think I'm going with the Lyman mold and try some of the techniques I found in a search here for "suppressing" (tee hee) or eliminating the lubricating problem with it. Just need to get into another good lead source in my locale.

[casterofboolits]

The Lyman mould #356637 09-147-FPBB will not size larger than .356. I hav two of the Lyman four cavity moulds for this boolit and niether drop boolits that can be sized larger than .356. Lyman specs this boolit to be sized .354, .355 and .356. The boolits just barely size .356 with my alloy. You can have the bevel removed by one the fine machinists on this site, but I don't think they an enlarge the cavities due to the boolit configuration.

I suppose you could "beagle" the Lyman mould to cast a larger boolit.

The Saeco moulds I have cast large enough to be sized .358, but are almost twice as expensive.

[Spud]

The Lyman mould #356637 09-147-FPBB will not size larger than .356. I hav two of the Lyman four cavity moulds for this boolit and niether drop boolits that can be sized larger than .356. Lyman specs this boolit to be sized .354, .355 and .356. The boolits just barely size .356 with my alloy. You can have the bevel removed by one the fine machinists on this site, but I don't think they an enlarge the cavities due to the boolit configuration.

I suppose you could "beagle" the Lyman mould to cast a larger boolit.

The Saeco moulds I have cast large enough to be sized .358, but are almost twice as expensive.

Thanks for that info. The barrel on my SR9c slugged at a touch over .355, so I've been able to get away with .356 commercial cast boolits with minimal leading. Accuracy's been satisfactory. Mebbee I'll be OK.

Shot a few 102-RN Lee boolits that I cast for 380ACP, just for the halibut. They were sized to .357 (loaded with Win AA Plus) and I was surprised to find little if any leading, considering the velocity, so fit must've been OK with those.

[Dannix]

You could sign up for this. Not sure what weight it drops at with what alloy, but if 140grn is an accurate number, I doubt 140grn vs 147grn will feel all that different for you.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=105336

[Buckshot]

.............I have a Witness in 38 Super and it just loves that 147gr Lyman. I have no problem with the lube that shows up in the bevel area. Never had a probelm but I don't think I've held any loaded ammo over a couple years either. I just checked my range book and the last batch of those I cast (and shot) indicated a BHN of 14 and they weighed 153grs. Guess they want lino to be 147grs eh? :-)

http://www.fototime.com/94E23D0AC147FC1/standard.jpg

Off the subjest but this one works well in the Witness also. It's the NLA RCBS 38-162-SWC (GC). With a 24 lb spring @ 1150 fps it's nicely accurate. I've had the Lyman going 1260 fps but it's a bit more then I want to just plink with :!:

If your peestol will feed them, Lee does offer a 140gr SWC, and a 150gr RN, both PB's.

...................Buckshot