308 Russian Mauser???

[DLCTEX]

A fellow at church today asked if I had reloading die for 308. I did, so he told me he had bought a rifle in 308, but the problem was that it used a rimmed cartridge. I asked what make it was and he replied it was a Russian Mauser that used a rimmed 308. I told him that I'd take a look at finding brass. Thinking about it later I wondered if some had reamed a Nagant to 308 Win.. but have decided he probably has a stock 7.62X54 R. It is close enough to 308 Win that some nut sold it to him as a "rimmed 308". He was wanting to find ammo or brass for it, so I think his problem is solved. Anyone agree?

[Wayne Smith]

You are probably right but I would want to see what rounds fit in the chamber or take a chamber cast before I pulled the trigger!

[spqrzilla]

Highly likely that a "Russian Mauser" is a Mosin-Nagant in 7.62x54R. Can't tell you how many times I've seen them so labeled at gun shows.

[leadhead]

I would want to look at it and try several different rounds to see
which one was right.
Denny

[WineMan]

I was in a Big 5 store in the Sacramento CA area. On the rack was an "Authentic German 98 Mauser $379. I had gotten a real Kar 98k a few months ago (a RC bcd/ar 42) and decided to look at another. The nice salesman pulls it down and flips open the shiny in the white bolt. The full wood handguard, crest and M-48 on the receiver kind of spoiled the rest of the moment. I told the head gun person that it was not an authentic German 98 Mauser but a copy/clone and he said that it is a difference of opinion as to whether it is a real Mauser 98 or not. Oh well buyer beware.

Wineman

[Frank46]

Don't know if this is germane to this thread, but there is a 308 bolt action that is made in Russia.
Don't remember the brand but its out there. Frank

[madsenshooter]

To some, any bolt action military rifle is a mauser. I've had guys, when they looked at my Madsen say it was a Mauser. Nevermind the fact that the locking lugs are on the rear, or that the receiver has a split bridge that ought to tell you right away. But then, the earliest of Mausers had a split bridge didn't they. Elsewhere here on this forum I've read of a gun seller that was telling guys you could shoot .308 in a Mosin. I wouldn't want to be behind it when the striker fell.

[Piedmont]

I bought a ".308 Mauser" (marked on the tag) at a store over ten years ago that was a Chattelerault Mosin Nagant from 1892. That is a rare one. Got a heck of a good deal on it, too!

[JIMinPHX]

Highly likely that a "Russian Mauser" is a Mosin-Nagant in 7.62x54R.

I'm going to jump on this bandwagon & say that this is what I think it is too. There is a cartridge called a .307, that is basically a rimmed .308, but I've never seen a gun made in Russia that chambers it. The MN rifles litter the earth more now than they ever did before. Still, a lot of people don't seem to recognize them for what they are.

[olafhardt]

Bought a nice old stevens 12 ga that srunk to a 16 before I got it home. Saw a modle 94win with aserial number above 3 million marked pre-64. You dont know untill you know.

[nanuk]

I just looked at the cartridge dimensions of the .308Win, and the 7.62x54R.

if the chamber has a loose neck, it would appear the .308 could chamber in the x54 chamber.

would it fire? perhaps, assuming the chamber is not too loose. OTWS the 308 would slide too far forward to fire... unless the neck was a bit snug and held the round back.

Now that has me wondering if there aren't folks who use the 30-06 to resize down to x54R to use for light loads. it would bulge slightly more than the 6.5x55 case made from -06 case.

it looks like the extractor "Could" grab the "rim" of a 30-06

Brass x54R is getting difficult to get around here. Lots of steel milsurp around tho. But not cheap like it used to be.

[JIMinPHX]

Nanuk,
These guys still have a good supply at reasonable prices - http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/ammo-for-rifles/7-62x54r/cPath/12_42?osCsid=8f135cbca9ed0a2ec148376634664597
The 440 round spam can for $85 comes out to less than $4/box of 20.
The Wolf Gold $16/ box of 20 has reloadable brass. So does the S&B.
A local shop in my area sells Winchester primed brass in that caliber for $0.50 each, or at least they did the last time I was in there. It's been a while.

I don't know if J&G ships to Canada or not, but if they have it, then Canadian dealers should be able to get it too I would think.

[Piedmont]

It is possible to wrap tape around the base of a .308 Winchester and fire it in a 7.62x54R. There were pictures of this on the net back in the late 90s. Some were doing it during the Balkan unpleasantness. The .308 or 7.62 NATO both operate at higher pressures than 7.62x54R but the Mosins are strong rifles. The .308 case is a bit shorter, smaller at the case head, and uses a bullet a bit smaller in diameter.

With the wide availability of 7.62x54R brass I don't know why anyone would now go to the trouble of trying to make .308 ammo or cases work.

[Artful]

try ording 7.62x54R reloadable brass - it ain't that widely available - you can get loaded ammo for a buck a shot - which is expensive way to get brass.

[spqrzilla]

Artful, boxer primed Prvi Partisan 7.62x64R is available less expensively than that. Midway for instance is selling it for $14.99 for a box of 20 today. That makes it a quite reasonable way to get reloadable brass.

[Artful]

Spqrzilla - thanks for the heads up that's better than the 16.99 a box locally for Wolf Gold (which is prvi brass) but that's still like buy 60 rounds ammo and pay what 100 rnds new brass would go for. I may yet buy ammo to get my brass but dog-gone I'd like a choice.

[Multigunner]

Spqrzilla - thanks for the heads up that's better than the 16.99 a box locally for Wolf Gold (which is prvi brass) but that's still like buy 60 rounds ammo and pay what 100 rnds new brass would go for. I may yet buy ammo to get my brass but dog-gone I'd like a choice.

I've seen Privi Partizan .303 brass for sale in the past. Privi makes cartridge cases for use by other ammunition companies so they may also sell unfired brass now and then. Just have to keep an eye open.

PS
There was an ammo safety warning from Australia on some overly hot .303 ammo loaded on what appeared to be Privi Partizan brass. One No.4 rifle blew a bolt head and there may have been damage to some SMLE rifles. I found the warning years ago, so the ammo may no longer be a problem, though several No.4 owners have posted of stuck cases when using Russian .303 ammo.

[madsenshooter]

I just looked at the cartridge dimensions of the .308Win, and the 7.62x54R.

if the chamber has a loose neck, it would appear the .308 could chamber in the x54 chamber.

would it fire? perhaps, assuming the chamber is not too loose. OTWS the 308 would slide too far forward to fire... unless the neck was a bit snug and held the round back.

Now that has me wondering if there aren't folks who use the 30-06 to resize down to x54R to use for light loads. it would bulge slightly more than the 6.5x55 case made from -06 case.

it looks like the extractor "Could" grab the "rim" of a 30-06

Brass x54R is getting difficult to get around here. Lots of steel milsurp around tho. But not cheap like it used to be.

I've got a fired case from each, 7.62x54R and 7.62 NATO. They're at eye level and the rear of the shoulder on each is at the same location. The shoulder is also the same diameter. I'm pretty sure there's enough firing pin protrusion to fire the NATO round in the Mosin. That's what I meant above when I said I wouldn't want to be behind it. I'd be afraid of the brass failing, not the strong action properly chambered in .308 not handling the pressure.

[roverboy]

I worked with a guy that was in Viet Nam in the war and he said that he didn't know how they did it but, the Viet Cong would use 7.62 in their Mosins. The Viet Cong would find ammo or steal it and fire it.

[WineMan]

During the Bosnian war in the 1990's snipers would use 7.62x51 NATO with a piece of wire tied around the extractor groove to allow the Mosin extractor to get a grip. Some might even go as far as wrapping tape to make the case fit even better. It can be done but given the availability of 7.62x54R ammo here (and Canada) it is not something I need to do.

Wineman

[-06]

The rim on the 54s sticks out and the 51s are straight. Do not think it would eject properly or reliably. Just picked up a sporterized Nagant and he tossed in a box of 80 grain ammo. I thought I had bought some weird caliber but when I tried the standard 54Rs in it they chambered perfectly. Had never seen any 80 gn 54 ammo before. Like another said--do not think I want to be behind the rifle when the striker falls--lol.

[madsenshooter]

I worked with a guy that was in Viet Nam in the war and he said that he didn't know how they did it but, the Viet Cong would use 7.62 in their Mosins. The Viet Cong would find ammo or steal it and fire it.

So that's the source of the thing I've heard from Nam Vets. Often they'd say the Viet Cong could use our ammo, and thinking of 5.56 and 7.62 vs 7.62x39, I was always thinking, "he doesn't know what he's talking about". The Mosin didn't even cross my mind.

[twildman]

So that's the source of the thing I've heard from Nam Vets. Often they'd say the Viet Cong could use our ammo, and thinking of 5.56 and 7.62 vs 7.62x39, I was always thinking, "he doesn't know what he's talking about". The Mosin didn't even cross my mind.

I know a vet who says he put a whole case of NATO ammo thru a Moisin while he was "in country", and I suppose the cases held together, as he has both his eyes...

[madsenshooter]

If he made it outta there, he's got better luck than I do, I'm not going to push mine. No doubt GI ball, thick case, slightly undersized bullet, not enough pressure to break things loose. But with my luck...

[nanuk]

Nanuk,

The 440 round spam can for $85 comes out to less than $4/box of 20.
The Wolf Gold $16/ box of 20 has reloadable brass.
A local shop in my area sells Winchester primed brass in that caliber for $0.50 each, or at least they did the last time I was in there. It's been a while.




Jim, no one ships loaded rounds or even components unless you pay the big fees. isn't worth is unless you deal in it by the 10,000's

best we can do up here is about $0.50 per steel cased loaded

or new brass for reloading is around $0.80 each....

then shipping and taxes....

[DLCTEX]

I found him some ammo at the local gun shop. Softnose bullets in a steel case at $13.20 per box of 20. That will let him do some deer hunting.

[Larry Gibson]

A "whole case" of 7.62 NATO.....he must have post traumatic stress just from trying to feed, extract and eject those from a MN...........most of the MNs i tried that with (never fired the round) were a severe PITA with just 3 - 4 cartridges.

Larry Gibson

[twildman]

A "whole case" of 7.62 NATO.....he must have post traumatic stress just from trying to feed, extract and eject those from a MN...........most of the MNs i tried that with (never fired the round) were a severe PITA with just 3 - 4 cartridges.

Larry Gibson

He sez that the cases swelled enough that the groove caught the extractor. He just likes to do things differently; he also owns the only 30-40 Krag-chambered Moisin I have ever seen.

[Colt .45]

Jim, no one ships loaded rounds or even components unless you pay the big fees. isn't worth is unless you deal in it by the 10,000's

best we can do up here is about $0.50 per steel cased loaded

or new brass for reloading is around $0.80 each....

then shipping and taxes....

Did you mean ship across the border? Because there are plenty of places that will ship ammo inside canada.

http://moregunssupply.3dcartstores.com/

7.62x25 / x39 /x54R All in stock in milsurp.

[Thumbcocker]

I read an article about a shooter at a range shooting .308 in Polish M44 he ejected the casings by dropping the cleaning rod down the barrel. The person writing the article wrot out the proper cartridge for the shooter and sent him home with a case (7.62 x 54R).

[acoop101]

I'd still look at the rifle but if it was sold as a rimmed 308 could it possibly chambered in 307 winchester? Which IS a rimmed 308 from my understanding. More than likely it is just an old mosin.

[gidgaf]

IIRC, there was a Chilean 308 Mauser, converted by use of a soldered in sleeve.
A few of these were imported and sporterized.
And sometimes they were good one.