Forster Hollow Pointer...

[BCB]

Does anyone know if Forster still offers their hollow pointer tool for the 44 Magnum? I have this device for the 357 Magnum and it works with the Forster Case Trimmer. I purchased it many, many years ago when I really wasn’t all that into hollow pointing cast bullets—I didn’t cast bullets at that time—but now I do. I would now like to experiment a bit more with the 358429 bullet, and if I can find the 44 Magnum hollow pointer I would like to mess a bit with the 44-250-K bullet. It’s a fairly slow process but it is interesting. Any thoughts? Thanks…BCB

[Scrounger]

Does anyone know if Forster still offers their hollow pointer tool for the 44 Magnum? I have this device for the 357 Magnum and it works with the Forster Case Trimmer. I purchased it many, many years ago when I really wasn’t all that into hollow pointing cast bullets—I didn’t cast bullets at that time—but now I do. I would now like to experiment a bit more with the 358429 bullet, and if I can find the 44 Magnum hollow pointer I would like to mess a bit with the 44-250-K bullet. It’s a fairly slow process but it is interesting. Any thoughts? Thanks…BCB

I thought one Hollow Pointer fits all?

[BCB]

Scrounger,
Unless Forster made a couple of different types of hollow pointers, the one I have is specific for the 38/357 cartridge. The loaded round is inserted into a bushing that allows the bullet to be pushed again the end of the bushing. The drill bit inserts into that end of the bushing and is supposed to be centered on the bullet meplat. The bushing is specific for that case diameter...BCB

[GLynn41]

The one I have will drill--what ever the bushing will hold --plus mine is self centering -- and over all it works well

[Char-Gar]

Forester only offers one type of hollow pointer with two sized drill, The small one is for rifles and the large for pistols. I just the large one for everything. The bushing centers just about anything.

[Scrounger]

Are you sure that's a Forester? Seems to me I vaguely remember there was a gentleman making and selling that and another tool or two mail order. He made them at his home and I seem to remember him dying at a relatively young age and I believe Forester bought the patent rights from his widow. The name I want to say is Georg or Teorg or something like that.

[wills]

http://www.forsterproducts.com/store/Images/hollowpoint.jpg
Like that?
http://www.forsterproducts.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=19

[BCB]

wills,
Nope, it doesn't look like that! It is a Forster 'cause it has direction with Forster headings etc. It also has Forster on the bushing. Maybe if I can take a picture of it later today after work, I can post it. Ain't sure about the picture though...BCB

[versifier]

It's really easy to make a self-centering bushing that you can retrofit. You could probably make one with a drill press, though I made mine on the lathe. 5/8-3/4" rpond aluminum stock, 3/4" long. Drill a pilot hole the size of your hollow pointing bit through the center. Then, either cut a 45* concavity in one end, or run a skinny (technical term) countersink in until the point is a little more than half-way through and/or the widest diameter of the opening is a little less than 1/2".

[BCB]

I tried to post pictures of the Hollow Pointer that I am talking about, but I haven't a clue as to how to do it. SO, I saved it at a picture posting site on the Internet (Hunt 101) and have posted the URL's here. Click on them and take a look...BCB

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=462998

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=462999

[wills]

http://www.hunt101.com/img/462999.jpg
or
http://www.hunt101.com/img/462998.jpg

[BCB]

Thanks wills!
That is what I was trying to do--now other people can look at them easily and see what I have. I am looking for that setup in the 44 Magnum cartridge. Thanks again...BCB

[BCB]

Thanks wills and Scrounger--both sent me a PM and explained the method of posting.

I will try it again...The picture, if it posts, is an example of how the hollow pointer does its job on a 358429 in a 357 Magnum case...BCB (Edited--Yippee, it worked. Now I will be dangerous with pictures!!!)

[versifier]

Yours is caliber specific. You might be able to get a new centering bushing from Forster that will handle other sizes if you are unable to find what you're looking for or unwilling to try making your own. FWIW, I bet your caliber specific bushing is faster to use and has less runout than the multicaliber bushings. I would consider making or having made a larger one for the specific .44 boolit. I use mine for many different sizes and profiles, so it would not be practical for me, but if you just have one boolit in each caliber that you plan to use it on, it might be worth it.

[BCB]

versifier,
It actually does center the hollow point fairly well. I used it many years ago when I purchased cast bullets. It would sure make the Hornaday swaged SWC'ers look like a mushroom with no stem! I would like to use it now on some pure lead slugs since I can cast them myself now. Forster might still offer them. Your design would be good IF I had the machine stuff to do it myself. I suspect that paying a machinest to make it would cost more than the part from Forster, if they still have it. If not, making it may be the only option as I have not seen many (any?) at gun shows...BCB

[versifier]

You could make one on a drill press. Aluminum is easy to work with. You just need a drill the same size as the hollow pointer and a countersink. Drill the pilot hole first and the countersink will follow it. It would, of course, be a lot easier to get what you need from Forster, if they have it and it would retrofit. I made mine because I didn't need a third case trimmer and turned my spare into a dedicated hollow pointer.

[Pioneer2]

Is the hollow pointer an accessory for the Forester case trimmer or a complete ready to go unit?Too bad it isnt RCBS compatable..........Harold

[Buckshot]

...............The hollow pointer is an accessory for the Forester case trimmer.

..............Buckshot

[Pepe Ray]

The Forster HP'er accessory was initially offered as caliber specific, MANY years ago. When I purchased mine, in 1976, it was advertised as "Universal".
The body of the unit is independant and can be used w/any trimmer that holds the cartridge by the RIM and stationary.
The only negative is getting a drill that will fit your turning head.
Forster and Redding share a common size. Lyman & RCBS are odd. Don't know about Hornady or the others.
Pepe Ray

[kawalekm]

I bought one first, and found out it was designed for the trimmer after I got it. Oh well. I have tried using it in my drill press, with uneven results. Using a machinist vice, I was able to clamp the cartridge firm enough for drilling, barely! The drill bit galls easily in the soft lead and will lock up while drilling, resulting in a somewhat damaged case as it starts to spin the the vice. I found that oiling the drill-bit first would mostly eliminate the galling. Took an entire box of 50 cartridges before I got good enough to say they will shoot well. Will take them out to the range shortly, but I don't expect much in terms of accurcy. Will get back to you later.
Michael

[Pioneer2]

Thanks in most catalogs it is shown as a ready to go unit.I suspected it was just a part...................good to know....Harold

[creekman]

I have noticed that most hollow molds use a tapered die. The drill that Forster uses is not tapered. I wonder if that makes a difference in accuracy or expansion.

[Char-Gar]

All things being equal, which they never are, hollowpoint bullets are more accurate than the solid point versions of the same and the straight hp cavity works just as well as the tapered.

[PhilOhio]

Searching the Internet, just for fun, regarding my Georg Hollow Pointer, I found that virtually nothing existed on it. And that's a shame. But then right here on Cast Boolits, where I was already a member, I found this thread where somebody was inquiring about the Georg device, later modified and marketed by Forster. Maybe here is where we can preserve the history, among people who can appreciate it.

Way back in the '40s and '50s, when handgun hunting was almost unknown and interested few shooters, an exception was (Alfred?) Georg. He knew a lot about it, but is not remembered widely, because Elmer Keith was the tireless self promoter who wrote a lot in the few gun magazines of the day, and was never reluctant to let the world know everything he thought he knew, on every subject, and a lot more. Or as he grandly titled one of his major puffery book accomplishments, "Hell, I was there."

If you guess that I was not one of his fans, you would be correct. Nevertheless, he gave us a lot, I love and use his bullet designs, and he did influence S&W to market the Model 29.

One of the more quiet pistol shooters, who also accomplished things albeit on a lower key, was Mr. Georg. He died relatively young, I believe. For a few years afterward, his widow was selling some of the specialty products he had made, on a very small scale. So in late 1960 or early 1961, shortly after I ordered my new Smith Model 29 in .44 Magnum, I bought from her an interesting high quality hand tool for making very interesting .44 ammunition; i.e., the Georg Hollow Pointer was more than just a hollow pointer. (Silly me. I was a kid who had no idea what a .44 Magnum would do, with or without hollow points.)

The tool consists of two main pieces, the larger of which looks like a small diameter unthreaded reloading die of about 5/8" diameter, medium knurled for half its 1.5" length, and drilled longitudinally through at an exact diameter of .222". (By the way, this happens to be the case diameter of an unfired .22 rimfire cartridge.) This piece is laterally drilled and tapped for a small allen head set screw.

.222" is the diameter of a #2 drill. A very high quality #2 drill bit, 4" long and made by Morse, came with the set, slipped through the above described piece, and locked into any desired position by the set screw.

A second machined piece, also looking like a small but unthreaded reloading die, was also 1.5" long, knurled for half this length, and also had an OD of about 5/8".

This shorter lathe-made piece was drilled longitudinally for about 2/3 its length, at just over the outside diameter of a sized .44 Magnum/.44 Special/.44 S&W Russian cartridge. For the rest of its length, it was drilled through at .222".

Remember, Georg was trying to make older types of soft lead .44 bullets reliably expand at velocities in the 750 to 1000 feet per second range, for game hunting. The user would hold a firmly crimped live round in the smaller die piece and, with the drill bit extended and locked for the desired hollow point depth, insert it into the small hole of the smaller die piece and twist the knurled drill holder until it bottomed against the matching die piece. That was it. Very quick, very easy, no mess, and no great effort. It worked like a charm, and so did the bullets.

Oh yes, I almost forgot. Georg wanted those bullets to expand at very low velocities.
That's where the .222" diameter comes in. One takes a live high velocity .22 Short rimfire cartridge, slices off the soft lead bullet flush with the case mouth, using a pocket knife, and presses it into the hollow point cavity, which has been drilled to the same depth as the Short case. It was intended for Keith-type bullets of at least 240 grains. Then you have a loaded .44 round with a strange, brass colored nose saying something like "Super-X" or "Remington" on it.

Those who have inadvertently put bulges in fine .22 rimfire barrels can attest to the energy in a modern .22 Short round. A soft lead bullet is much easier to blow up.

So there you have it. Mr. Georg and Mr. Keith are long gone and, while very different sorts of people, they have left us a rather interesting historical oddity here, which might intrigue a new generation of boolit casters. But one word of caution. They were focused on wheel guns. I would urge would-be reloading reenactors not to try any of Mr. Georg's special bullets in semiauto pistols or rifles, where a ramp hangup or other type of jam could theoretically fire the .22 expansion charge. And I would not use them in a tubular magazine, as found on Winchester and Marlin lever guns. This was strictly a revolver or single shot project. Might be great with a TC Contender.

Now remember, don't ever, ever, ever try this at home. Always eat your green vegetables, never stay out after dark, and always do whatever any lawyer or politician says you must do.