Antimony surplus?

[slowhand47]

leave no trace

[runfiverun]

those gotta be brittle.
for most use i like to use 1% tin and 3% antimony.
i can add some ww's or sulpher to them , and water drop for higher velocity/pressure applications.

[cbrick]

I cannot imagine why any bullet maker would use 18% Sb. Makes no sense, that high of Sb and you could break the bullet in two just by dropping it on a concrete floor. Would shatter and not penetrate anything except paper targets.

Monotype has 19% and is extremely brittle and it also has 9% Sn. Monotype bullets have been broken by chambering a round.

I have to think that either a mistake was made or slowhand was lied to. 18% antimony? Something here doesn't pass the smell test.

Rick

[lwknight]

I second the smell test not passing. An alloy of 18% antimony without at least 4% tin would not cast well at all and there would be a lot of shushy floaty antimony that would never mix completely.
It may very well have 18% antimony but if it casts and makes a smooth melt there is also a good bit of tin in it as well.

Rotometals sells some 30% antimony and the ingots look like sand paper on the top. Also they pour it directly from a mixer that keeps everything stirred evenly while it is being poured.

[bumpo628]

Yeah, there's no way it's 18% if it's from range scrap.
Maybe we can figure it out if you get some more information about where it came from.

You could also buy a hardness tester or use the pencil method in the sticky.

[cbrick]

> the email giving the composition also added that their bullets were swagged- not cast-perhaps it is necessary for holding shape- as in monotype or deeper penitration of harder objects -Police App's?- the seller said it was from 45ACP. I guess I may have to drop some shot into the mold before casting?

SWAG an 18% antimony alloy? That's even less likely than 18% Sb.

Police do not want deeper penetration, they want less to avoid collateral damage.

Hold shape? Bullets that shatter like glass do not hold their shape, they shatter, just like glass.

Some people add shot to add antimony to soft lead, what do you expect shot to do for you?

Rick

[Defcon-One]

I think that somebody made a mistake here, I seriously doubt that your metal has 18% Antimony in it.

The highest that I have ever used was 12% (Linotype) and the bullets were way too hard for what I do. It also had 4% Tin in the mix to hold things together.

You better re-read your information. Look for a decimal place, 1.8% or ask someone who knows the truth. The bullets would likely break up when you seated them at that level of Antimony without Tin.




Antimony provides hardness and the ability to harden through heat treatment, at higher velocities, a small amount of antimony is acceptable, but it should be limited to no more than 3% to minimize brittleness and fragmentation.

[clodhopper]

Can't help but wonder if there isn't a missing decimal point here.
1.8 % antimony would make sense.

[madsenshooter]

18% Sb without Sn should be around 18 hardness, according to an old type metal chart I have. Adding 4% Sn would boost your hardness up to 22, 6% to 24, 8% to 26, 10% to 28. Yea, I'd find out for sure, might have been a typo.

[randyrat]

I have some high Antimony lead and it read on a Niton analyzer at 11% Sb and 4-6% Tin Sn. It was ingots for type, Mono or Lino one or the other, most likely Mono type.
I scored it with a hack saw and broke it into pieces, that's how brittle it is.

[cbrick]

18% Sb without Sn should be around 18 hardness, according to an old type metal chart I have. Adding 4% Sn would boost your hardness up to 22, 6% to 24, 8% to 26, 10% to 28. Yea, I'd find out for sure, might have been a typo.

Don't think so. Lino @ 12% Sb, 4% Sn is 22 BHN but BHN isn't the real issue here, its how brittle it would be.

At any rate it will be interesting if we find out the reality of this.

Rick

[madsenshooter]

It's not exactly a linear progression as you'd expect. So not easily predictable without a bit of help. Chart is from the Journal of the Institute of Metals. I copied it from an old American Rifleman many years ago. I spent too much time with those old American Rifleman magazines when I was going to college!

[fryboy]

if they are from zero bullet company something to consider is this
" CAS or Chemical Name: Antimony

CAS Number: 7440-36-0

Percentage Range .2-2%

Hazardous pe r 29 CFR 1910.1200: Yes (as dust or fume)"

from their spec sheet

http://www.zerobullets.com/docs/MSDSCenterfireAmmo.pdf

to be fair they list zinc up to 6% so i'm guessing the 1.8 % as well ( as it's under the 2 % listed in the spec sheet ) indeed i've had some antimony rich alloys that i couldnt seem to get to the slush on top to blend back in ( and i cranked the heat up a bit ) at first i thought it was zinc contaminated but it wasnt

[leadman]

Checked the price for 45cla 200gr SWC from Zero bullets retail outlet and they are about $103.00 per thousand. Seems at that price antimony is more likely 1.8%

Linotype boolites out of my 22 K-hornet shatter even in jack rabbits.

If the alloy is 18% antimony it would make a good alloying or trading stock. I, along with others here could trade you some soft lead.

[lwknight]

Slowhand , you can break off what you need from the bard with a sharp hammer whack.
It you do melt it into smaller ingots , be advised that it does not stay mixed very well without added tin. You will get a slush that looks exactly a slurpee.

You can mix it 1 part tin to 10 parts superhard to get 9-27-63 and its a great sweetener.
I mix 11 pounds of the 9-27-63 with 39 pounds of lead to get 2-6-92.
Mix anyway you like of course.

the 9-27-63 cast beautifully in any ingot mold and with the low melting point oxidation is minimal.

[7of7]

I got ahold of an old keel a while back... took me a while to figure out what it was.. somewhere about 9-10% antimony. This was based upon melting temperature. (right about 490 degrees) It was also pretty hard, didn't expand well, but would expand some, and then break apart. (bullet squish test with hammer)
I was surprised that it melted that low, considering anitmony has a higher melting temp than lead. I figured it would raise the melting temp..

[bumpo628]

Clear -crystal clear lwknight. Alloy the superhard with tin to avoid the slush-separation with high % antimony. So tin has more than a mould fillout purpose?

I just posted an updated version (6/28) of my alloy calculator. It is in excel and has most of the common alloys and their properties. Just put in the weight of items you want to mix and adjust it until you get the percentages you want. Download it here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=105952

[lwknight]

A small amount of antimony will dissolve in lead and a lot more percent will dissolve with only a little tin added. Funny how dissolved antimony actualy lowers the melting point.

I had some kind of high antimony babbit that would look melted at 540 degrees but would not pour without bubbles and fuglies. Once it was heated to 640 degrees became liquid as water and poured nicely and very smooth finish.