Melting down brass cases?

[63 Shiloh]

Hi Fellers,

I have recently been reading a bit about backyard smelting of aluminium and steel, using homemade tools and molds for pouring the melted material into a desired shape.

My question, if I finish my homemade furnace project, could scrap brass cases be melted in a crucible then poured into an ingot form? I am thinking of an ingot of about 10" long, 6" wide and 4" deep.

I would then like to turn this in my lathe and make some parts to replace plastic in a variety of objects.

I would imagine that depriming would be a must, other than that, is there any other work required?

Anyone done this?


Mike

[docone31]

Those furnaces should be able to handle the heat, but you will have to watch out for zinc fumes. It will show up as a white residue around the crucible top.
Other than that, it will be just like any other metal. The primers are brass also. Should be able to melt them in.
Use Boric acid as flux. Roach poison.
Good luck to you. You will enjoy it.
I cast small lots of brass. They come out well.
Second melt though, you will have to freshen the brass.

[shotman]

the primers are brass too. you can make your mold any way you want. Laundry starch and water mix . get some play sand at lowes and use old tin cans as hole. when sand dries remove cans and fill it up. If you know a plumber may get some old cast iron pipe. you can set in the ground and fill then break the pipe off
Hope you have free gas that takes a lot to melt at that hi temp
guy I know made one that used used trans fluid to melt car transmitions It worked but after the dealers found that he would add pot cast to it they wouldnt buy it.

[calaloo]

When I was a kid a friends father had a small natural gas fired blast furnace. He melted aluminum and made fighting cock wall plaques, basement vents, and sundials. When he progressed to brass he had to pack coke around the crucible to get it hot enough. I wonder where one could purchase coke in this day and time?

[Defcon-One]

Zinc fumes can and have killed people! Do your research and wear proper protection.

[lwknight]

Zinc fumes can and have killed people! Do your research and wear proper protection.

I know that zinc in itself is not harmful but fumes might be a different story if you burn it.
Just stay out of the cloud.

[3006guns]

Plenty of info on the internet. Just Google "home foundry" and the websites usually list suppliers of crucibles, fluxes, furnace designs, etcc.

[Longwood]

I wonder where one could purchase coke in this day and time?

Hollywood or Beverly hills.:bigsmyl2:

[63 Shiloh]

Thanks for the replies fellers,

I will research the process carefully and wear the appropriate protective gear.

A thought, would it be feasible to use the brass that I melt to make a small .54cal cannon? I will only be using BP of course.



Mike

[JIMinPHX]

If you are planning to turn the brass on a lathe, why not cast your ingots round?

With 360 brass going for over $5/lb, I can see where melting down unneeded cases might be tempting.

[dnepr]

As someone who has done the home foundry thing I would suggest starting with zinc or aluminum before graduating to brass , this type of casting makes lead look room temperature so mistakes can be scary , I never got to casting brass , and time simply doesn't allow me to persue that hobby anymore , maybe when I retire

[Defcon-One]

Are you sure that your not thinking about galvanize fumes?
I know that zinc in itself is not harmful but fumes might be a different story.

I am sure! At the temperatures required to melt Brass, you will produce Zinc Oxide gas. The white smoke and powder are a sure sign of it. Bad mojo for things like lungs, which all of us use to breath every day!

Get enough (everyone is different), you'll get sick, then possibly better, then if you had enough exposure you could still die later in the weeks to follow. It has happened before, typically causing pneumonia which can result in death.

Galvanize fumes are Zinc Oxide fumes usually created by welding galvanized (Zinc coated) pipes. Same thing!

This has been called in the past "Monday Morning Fever", "Brass Fever", "The Brass Shakes", "Foundry Flu", ect. Severe cases can kill you!

Zinc casting is different and fairly safe. Like with Lead, you do not reach high enough temperatures to release any noxious or dangerous fumes.

[man.electric]

Not to draw away from the safety portion that the tread has taken, but I ran across these crucibles on CL for a song if anyone is interested.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/2448975153.html

[Salmon-boy]

I would definitely suggest picking up a copy of "Gas Burners for Forges, Furnaces, and Kilns" - VERY good reading. I've built one of Mikey's burners and have been able to melt copper pipe in open air.

The furnace designs he illustrates allow more efficient melting of different materials. I've been melting aluminum for a few years now using a propane burner and refractory furnace built from a used propane tank. I have yet to get it up to copper melting temps yet, but that's mostly because I haven't built anything to grab the crucible yet.

BTW, man.electric's post on craigslist is for riser insulators, not crucibles. They are insulated to keep the riser molten longer and provide liquid metal to fill in shrinkage.

[man.electric]

Sorry chuck, I did't know exactly what they were, but the price looked right for any sort of industrial gear.

[grullaguy]

My redneck foundry.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9242137@N05/618818281/

[L1A1Rocker]

If you are looking for a new hobby great. If however, you are looking for a means to an end - the end being able to turn out brass parts, may I suggest this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRAR?PMSECT=1914

[edler7]

I wonder where one could purchase coke in this day and time?

Coke isn't hard to make. It uses the same process as making char-cloth. I'd get an ammo can and drill a few small holes in the lid, fill it with coal and throw it in a fire or on the turkey fryer till smoke stopped coming out of the lid. That's about all there is to it.

They used to make steel here, and the coke plant ran night and day to feed the blast furnaces. Coal was coked by the rail car load, when they rolled them out of the oven at night the entire car was cherry red. Impressive !!!

[Longwood]

If you are looking for a new hobby great. If however, you are looking for a means to an end - the end being able to turn out brass parts, may I suggest this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRAR?PMSECT=1914

I have use Enco products for many years and would use a piece of their round stock for a cannon long before I would use a piece that I cast myself.

[Avery Arms]

Primers are made of 70/30 cartridge brass so I don't see any need to deprime so long as your primers are all spent:wink:

It is my understanding that you can prevent the zinc from oxidizing if you keep it away from oxygen, some people use a layer of molten glass on top of the melt but you will still get some oxidation when you pour so ventilation is a must.

[theperfessor]

I thought primers had a steel anvil in them. I could be wrong.

[63 Shiloh]

I did some research on zinc oxide, nasty, nasty stuff indeed!

Righto, I will wind it back a notch or two I think, start with aluminium first and become somewhat proficient.

It is just a new hobby, so I shall approach it in the same manner as reloading and casting. Learn the basics and the safety requirements first. Move on to smelting brass when I am up to the standard required.

Love some of the setups you blokes are running, 'red neck foundry'; I like it!


Mike

[a.squibload]

My redneck foundry.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9242137@N05/618818281/


Car go boom??? Please tell me you didn't have to walk home...

[Link23]

we find Coke all the time next to the railroad where it falls off the train, but then again i live in the hills of kentucky

[grullaguy]

Car go boom??? Please tell me you didn't have to walk home...

In my old job they used to let me play with things a bit bigger than reloading powder.

It was my boss's car.:popcorn:

[mroliver77]

we find Coke all the time next to the railroad where it falls off the train, but then again i live in the hills of kentucky
RR vgoes right through our farm. We have hunted it since it was put there in the 20's. They now have a "No Trepassing" policy and told me to scat or the law would be called. They then drove through my field (without asking)to tear down their telegraph wires. I thought it had been ripped off and called the law. They were mad after a week investigation found it was the RR's doin!

[eseemann]

lwkinght,

Please go to http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.php?lesson=safety3/demo and read how a long time blacksmith died from zinc oxide fumes.

Paracelsus, sometimes called the father of toxicology, wrote:
German: Alle Ding' sind Gift, und nichts ohn' Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist.
All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.
Or, more commonly
The dose makes the poison.
That is to say, substances considered toxic are harmless in small doses, and conversely an ordinarily harmless substance can be deadly if over-consumed.

[triggerhappy243]

I melted cartridge brass in high school as an extra credit class. it took 3-4 hours to melt about 1.5 pounds of brass. you need HOT HOT HOT temps to melt it to the point of pouring it. cheaper in the long run to just go buy a piece of raw solid brass round stock.

[CastingFool]

When I was going to college, some of the guys I knew, were taking a metal casting class. I talked to one of them, who happened to be one of the assistants in the class. I wanted to find out if they would make me a brass ingot, using some of my scrap brass. I was told no way. Apparently, someone else had had the same idea, but there were some primed cases in the pile, and when they went off in the crucible, they had a big mess on their hands.

[amosfella]

The iron parts should float up into the flux. Use glass or borax as flux, and wear a mask with a charcoal filter.... The masks from RZR should do it quite nicely...

[lwknight]

lwkinght,

Please go to http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.php?lesson=safety3/demo and read how a long time blacksmith died from zinc oxide fumes.

Paracelsus, sometimes called the father of toxicology, wrote:
German: Alle Ding' sind Gift, und nichts ohn' Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist.
All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.
Or, more commonly
The dose makes the poison.
That is to say, substances considered toxic are harmless in small doses, and conversely an ordinarily harmless substance can be deadly if over-consumed.

I guess he should have stayed out of the smoke cloud huh?

[DRNurse1]

My redneck foundry.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9242137@N05/618818281/

LOL: Did you park your 'car-go-boom' too close o the foundry (read the explanation after my post sorry).

Good photos of your tools and I especially like the look into your furnace for the information it provides.

[DRNurse1]

lwkinght,

Please go to http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.php?lesson=safety3/demo and read how a long time blacksmith died from zinc oxide fumes.

Paracelsus, sometimes called the father of toxicology, wrote:
German: Alle Ding' sind Gift, und nichts ohn' Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist.
All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.
Or, more commonly
The dose makes the poison.
That is to say, substances considered toxic are harmless in small doses, and conversely an ordinarily harmless substance can be deadly if over-consumed.

I have not heard that quote since college. Thanks for that flash back. I have found one exception to that important concept: lead down range...more is better, and a lot more is better than a little more. :-)

[Bullshop Junior]

Only thing i wanna know...can I cast brasa boolits from it?

[bangerjim]

http://www.foundry101.com/search.htm

[bangerjim]

Only thing i wanna know...can I cast brasa boolits from it?

1. What are your molds made out of? NO aluminum or brass molds!
2. Do you have solid carbide sizing dies? Brass is HARD!!!!!!! Standard Lee dies will NOT work.
3. No published loads
4. Forget it.

bangerjim

[eseemann]

Lwknight, you got that right. Everyone that knows this guy is saying the same thing. This is like skin diving with a charm bracelet in Key West. Charm bracelets are harm less. The reef off Key West FL is harmless and a school of barracuda, kept at a safe distance, is harmless. Add together the barracuda + reef hunting grounds + shiny thing that looks like a shoal of fish and you have a 3 foot long fish latched on to your wrist.
If he had a good blower to clear the air he might not have died.

[eseemann]

My dad was classically educated in Germany as a kid. We got him a shirt from a PBS fund drive that said "si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes."

[roverboy]

I guess if I'm gonna sell my split or cracked cartridge brass, I'll have to melt it down. The scrap metal place that's close to me won't buy cartridge brass since 9-11. I need to just try somewhere else.

[lwknight]

Lwknight, you got that right. Everyone that knows this guy is saying the same thing. This is like skin diving with a charm bracelet in Key West. Charm bracelets are harm less. The reef off Key West FL is harmless and a school of barracuda, kept at a safe distance, is harmless. Add together the barracuda + reef hunting grounds + shiny thing that looks like a shoal of fish and you have a 3 foot long fish latched on to your wrist.
If he had a good blower to clear the air he might not have died.

I used to work for a oil company and had to weld in galvanized floor plating. Everyone knew to stay out from the smoke. Even after a few years and dozens of welders, no one ever got sick from the fumes. We had simple fans and common sense. I can't say that no one ever got some chronic exposure that might bite them later but so far nothing I know of.

I remember when I was a kid , my uncle talking about getting galvanize sick from the smoke cloud and he claimed that a glass of milk would help with nausea. Probably a wives tale anyway.

Brass is made from alloying zinc with copper. Brass is safe to melt. I would think that zinc would burn before reaching copper melting temperatures. Maybe copper is dissolved in zinc to make brass?

[Eddie2002]

I've melted bronze and small amounts of brass using an oxy acetylene torch and you need to get the metal real HOT to do any pouring or casting. 20 mule team Borax works great as a flux and floats the impurities out to the top of the metal. I stopped melting brass because the cost of the gas needed to get 2-3 lbs of metal molten. One problem I had with bronze is that the zinc vaporizes when heated which as has already stated is nasty stuff.
I've made a forced air redneck's forge to melt aluminum using a steel car wheel, angle iron and a small bathroom vent fan which burns charcoal brickets but it doesn't get hot enough to melt brass. Been looking for a source of soft coal as a hotter fuel to try melting brass with the forge just so I can say I've done it.

[lwknight]

Brass is zinc and copper
Bronze is tin and copper.
Who can say for sure that there is no zinc in it if its really old or made in a 3rd world country.

[Alphawolf45]

I have cast brass or bronze buttplates for several rifles. Have been saving cartridge brass for a while with intention to try casting a buttplate with it. It appeals to my frugal side. But I am not expecting it to go real well. Its all old brass with a varying amounts of crud/corrosion.. I expect it to be quite a chore to melt old cartridges and get it clean enough to get a good casting. I'll be trying it in a few weeks.

[Eddie2002]

I alway get brass, zinc/copper and bronze, tin/copper mixed up, thanks for the clarification. They both need a lot of heat to melt. The few times I've tried it I found that a lot of flux really helps float off the crud.

[amosfella]

I have cast brass or bronze buttplates for several rifles. Have been saving cartridge brass for a while with intention to try casting a buttplate with it. It appeals to my frugal side. But I am not expecting it to go real well. Its all old brass with a varying amounts of crud/corrosion.. I expect it to be quite a chore to melt old cartridges and get it clean enough to get a good casting. I'll be trying it in a few weeks.

Go to your local larger grocery store, and go into the laundry soap isle. Buy yourself a box of borax. Pour a bunch onto the cases before melting. Amount isn't really important as long as it will cover the surface. That will clean the crud out...

[dikman]

Out of curiosity, I once melted some scrap brass in my (coke) forge, using a piece of steel pipe as a "crucible". It worked ok, but yes, it takes a lot of heat!!