Scrap Yard Morons

[MikeS]

Hi All.

Yesterday I went to a few scrap yards to try and get a piece of lead analysed to see what's in it (the place where I get the lead bricks I'm selling also has pigs that he says is recycled lead), and the first couple just gave me looks like I was stupid, one guy even said "Can't you see, that's lead" When I finally went to one place that understood what I was talking about, he told me that he didn't have anything like that, but pointed me to a place that did. When I went there, the guy there said that they had analytical equipment, but not for lead, only for steel.

Is it common for scrap yards to not have the capability to test metals? Also, none of them would sell any lead, as they say it's against the law. At one place where they pay $0.45/lb for lead there was a guy there with 75lbs of roof flashing he was going to sell them, made me wish I had driven my car, and not taken the bike!

Also, are there any scrap yards where the customers aren't crack addicts looking to make some quick money? I swear, the folks selling metals all looked shady, I guess that's another reason the folks at the scrap yards were looking at me like I was growing a third arm out of my back, I don't look like a crack addict out for a quick fix!

[cbrick]

These people are not working in an extemely dirty job for at or near minimum wage because they have Phd's in rocket science.

I gave up on auto junk yards, it sounds logical that they would be a good source for WW but I haven't found one yet that even saves them. Recycling centers haven't been much better for me for any type of lead even when I tolerate those that work there.

Rick

[justingrosche]

Mike, you'll want to find someone that does the "specific gravity test". It wont tell you what the actual composition is ,but will get you close. I dont completely understand the mathematics of how they determine what you have, but the short of it is, they will melt a chunk of your metal into a cavity of known size. Then weight it and see where it falls on there alloy chart. They also drop it in water filled vessel of some sort(hence the specific gravity part) and measure the displacement. I dont completely understand that portion, and if someone would educate me, I'd be obliged.
You can make the same rough estimation, with a Boolit mold. If you have a material like pure PB, cast a filled out Boolit, then weigh it. Cast your unknown metal into the same cavity and weigh that. If its lighter than the PB, there is something else in it:groner: I know, this is kind of a no brainer
I guess if you sampled enough alloys you could make your own chart with monotype at the top and PB at the bottom. Good luck.

[madsenshooter]

I wonder what law makes it illegal for them sell lead? Is it now a controlled substance?

[Jim]

Illegal to sell lead? That's strange. I can buy plumber's caulking lead (http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/81720/icn/20-177410/ldr_industires_ok/610pl_5.htm) all day long without any kind of documentation.

http://jgcphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/h8172003.gif

[nanuk]

my local recycler can't be bothered to sell local

everything gets hauled away

[nanuk]

Jim; I bought some of that years ago.... was expensive then! Can't imagine what my local shop would want for it now.

I have found some at an auction. 25lb chain like that, I got for $10.00. felt pretty pleased with myself

[30calflash]

I think availability depends on the area. Some places you can't get it, period. In Ct. there isn't any to be had through a plumbing supply house. Probably a state law to 'protect' everyone.
I went half with a friend on some pure lead from a well known dealer years back. although he had supplied other M/L enthusiasts with good product the batch we got was NG.
A guy I know said the yard he works at usually has some. And when they get tin/solder they seperate it as it's worth more than scrap lead.
Some tire shops/junkyards may be willing to sell but at scrap prices being what they are it won't be inexpensive. And remember that there will be some zinc/iron/steel mixed in too.


Illegal to sell lead? That's strange. I can buy plumber's caulking lead (http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/81720/icn/20-177410/ldr_industires_ok/610pl_5.htm) all day long without any kind of documentation.

http://jgcphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/h8172003.gif

[grullaguy]

The recycler I tried to see was very scientific.
Scratched it with a knife, smacked it with another chunk of scrap metal and then said "thirty cents a pound". I left with the lead that I had intended to sell.

[GRUMPA]

When I was in the machining industry the metals we used were of a very sensitive matter. Very specific for aero-space type work. Whenever a piece of metal needed to be analyzed regardless of the certifications that accompanied it, were given to a metals manufacturer (Castle metals) and for $25 they did what we called N.D.T. (Non Destructive Testing) and it had to accurate within 2% of each compound.

[onesonek]

These people are not working in an extemely dirty job for at or near minimum wage because they have Phd's in rocket science.

I gave up on auto junk yards, it sounds logical that they would be a good source for WW but I haven't found one yet that even saves them. Recycling centers haven't been much better for me for any type of lead even when I tolerate those that work there.

Rick

Relating to the auto junk yard here,,,, I ask the owner what they had for WW's. He guessed they had 2-300 lbs at present. I then asked how much,,,he said he'd have to look and see where the market was at. Not a good sign, I mused in silence. A few days later I bumped into to him, and asked again on the price. He told me $1.80 per/lb.
Told him I will pass, as I have been buying them from a gal (TheCaptain from here) out east, smelted/cleaned ingots, and shipped for a buck a lb. His first look was one of disbelief, and when I told him I wasn't shi,,,err, pulling his leg, the next look was,,, opps, maybe I tried screwing the wrong guy here.

[Milsurp Junkie]

When I was in the machining industry the metals we used were of a very sensitive matter. Very specific for aero-space type work. Whenever a piece of metal needed to be analyzed regardless of the certifications that accompanied it, were given to a metals manufacturer (Castle metals) and for $25 they did what we called N.D.T. (Non Destructive Testing) and it had to accurate within 2% of each compound.

More than likely it was XRF or X-Ray Fluorescence testing. Machines cost ~50K or so.

[Defcon-One]

Priced this last week: "Niton XRF analyzers are engineered for portable elemental analysis and ease of use." (See more at Niton.com)"

The price was over $35,000 delivered. This may require some local documentation as it carries a radioactive isotope inside. Most local scrap yards can not afford to buy something like this.

The one I was looking at and priced could identify (very accurately) well over a dozen different metals including Lead, Antimony, Tin, Zinc, etc..... and the percentage of each in the sample. Point, shoot, read the results in less that 30 seconds.

I didn't buy one as I though it would ad a bit too much to my boolit Lead costs. Ha Ha Ha!

FYI: My local scrap yard will not sell me Lead either. I can sell it to them, but they will not sell it to me!

[Longwood]

Relating to the auto junk yard here,,,, I ask the owner what they had for WW's. He guessed they had 2-300 lbs at present. I then asked how much,,,he said he'd have to look and see where the market was at. Not a good sign, I mused in silence. A few days later I bumped into to him, and asked again on the price. He told me $1.80 per/lb.
Told him I will pass, as I have been buying them from a gal (TheCaptain from here) out east, smelted/cleaned ingots, and shipped for a buck a lb. His first look was one of disbelief, and when I told him I wasn't shi,,,err, pulling his leg, the next look was,,, opps, maybe I tried screwing the wrong guy here.

Just like Walmart.
Buy junk then sell it for more than it is worth.

[mold maker]

I get all I can haul most every trip I make, past the scrap yard. It usually sells between .30 and .50 a lb. they just throw small pieces (WW etc) into a plastic drum. Pipe and sheet lead is in a tote cage. I pick out what I want and they weigh and price. I sell what aluminum, brass, and iron scrap I have, and pay the diff. I only have to beat the truck that makes a pick up every Thursday.
Usually I just get 2-300# of sheet and pipe lead. I've cried over what I had to leave, because of over loading a KIA, and coming down the mountain.
The first time I went there I had half a doz C Ham biscuits in hand. Now they treat me like royalty.

[468]

Hi All.

Yesterday I went to a few scrap yards to try and get a piece of lead analysed to see what's in it (the place where I get the lead bricks I'm selling also has pigs that he says is recycled lead), and the first couple just gave me looks like I was stupid, one guy even said "Can't you see, that's lead" When I finally went to one place that understood what I was talking about, he told me that he didn't have anything like that, but pointed me to a place that did. When I went there, the guy there said that they had analytical equipment, but not for lead, only for steel.

Is it common for scrap yards to not have the capability to test metals? Also, none of them would sell any lead, as they say it's against the law. At one place where they pay $0.45/lb for lead there was a guy there with 75lbs of roof flashing he was going to sell them, made me wish I had driven my car, and not taken the bike!

Also, are there any scrap yards where the customers aren't crack addicts looking to make some quick money? I swear, the folks selling metals all looked shady, I guess that's another reason the folks at the scrap yards were looking at me like I was growing a third arm out of my back, I don't look like a crack addict out for a quick fix!

The issue is, they don't really care what the specifics of the lead is, Its either hard, soft, or mixed. Thats how they buy it, and thats how they sell it. they just don't need to know the alloy composition.

As mentioned above, those portable analysis "guns" are quite expensive...and they usually require several "standards"(software) to test the various metals, depending upon if you're testing stainless, 3000 series Aluminum, 5000 series aluminum, 6000 series... you get the idea.

[btroj]

I don't get how they are morons for not having a very expensive piece of equipment for free use? If they don't need to know that accurately then why sound money on the thing.

I buy based upon the " that is lead" basis so I don't sweat it. Lead is either hard or soft to me. Work well too!

[MikeS]

Well, I melted down the small chunk (about a pound) and cast some boolits with it. Using a Saeco #69 (a plain based H&G #68 clone) the boolits I cast with the melted down piece I had weighed an average of 205gr. I also cast some from Lyman #2, and they averaged 195gr. I also tested them for hardness using a Saeco tester, and about an hour after casting they tested to between 7 -8 bhn. I will test some more of them in a few days to see if they get any harder or not.

The pigs are probably about 2 feet long, and unless I can get the guy at the boat yard to cut them in half, I will probably pass on buying them, as they're too much trouble, and I think he wants too much money for them. If I can get him to cut them in half, and come down to a more realistic price, then I will get some, and offer them for sale here, like I'm doing with the lead bricks.

[10 ga]

My local scrap yard is mostly hispanic guys and "necks" as it's kinda rural. It's summer and I carry a load of fresh Poblano and Halapeno every trip and a 30 pack about every 3rd trip and I get whatever I need/seek. last "gift" was a de-milled propane tank to make a smelter. I buy the lead. 10 ga

[chambers]

Had some of my lead checked by scrap yard, was neat they gave me a report printed for each piece had analyzed. I know the lead content, the tin, antinomy, and what ever else was in the batch. Helps to know someone who works there.

[468]

Actually, electronic/computer based testing equipment is a fairly new tool(within 20 years) to the scrap world. There used to be NO testeing equipment at all. Items were identified by shape or original use. Different acids were used on metals to help identify them by the color of the chemical reaction, if any. Other metals were "sparked" with a grinder...the color and shape of the sparks were used to determine the alloy.

These guys are far from being "Morons"

[justingrosche]

Here is a link of what I referred to for the specific gravity test for lead with a another link for weights of common metal, including tin and antimony. Upon further reading, to help me understand the process more, it seems if you follow the procedures correctly and do the mathematics right, it will give you dead on #'s for lead, tin,antimony.
I believe you would find a fourth element in the equation that would be difficult to account for, which would be oxides and other contaminates in the mix of your alloy
www.gold-nuggets.org/specific-gravity-test.htm
http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/spec_gra.html

[dualsport]

RotoMetals will do an analysis, I think $75.

[justingrosche]

sorry link fixed
I think this is something that the average joe can do in his reloading room for no $$$ , just time. which is an equally valuable commodity.

[fredj338]

I wonder what law makes it illegal for them sell lead? Is it now a controlled substance?

In some states, like Kalif, they are classifying lead as a HM & needs to be "disposed" following certain guidelines. Many fear the govt will run sting ops to catch them selling it, which is not within the guidelines for disposal. Stupid, yes, after all it is a system run by govt. employees. It doesn't have to make sense.:killingpc

[MikeS]

I don't get how they are morons for not having a very expensive piece of equipment for free use?

They're not morons for not having an expensive piece of equipment, they're morons for the way they reacted when I asked. As I said in the original post, one guy thought I was stupid for not knowing that I was holding a piece of lead! A couple of the places had people that actually knew what I was talking about, just didn't have it, and I have no problem with that. I don't know, maybe they act the way they do from dealing with crack addicts all day long that are selling stuff they stole to bring to the scrapyard.

Perhaps other areas are different, but down here that's the clientele of scrapyards, and has been for years. About 15 years ago when I was in the leather machinery business, we had a small fenced in yard behind our building, and we were storing some older cutting machines (known in the industry as clickers) that were heavy cast iron machines that had a heavy aluminium piece on them, and we had them under tarps. We also had a car trailer with aluminium rams, and one day I noticed the lock that locked the rams in place was cut, and the rams were missing! Found the ramps at a scrapyard a few blocks away. When we took the tarps off the machines a while later, every one was missing the swing arm (big aluminium part)!

I'm sure these yards have some legitimate customers, but they also get lots of the type I just mentioned.

I think some people here just have never had to deal with stupid, or uneducated people. Back in 1981 we tried to run a school to teach high school dropouts how to operate leather working machines so they could get jobs with some of our customers, and at one point we found out that about half the class didn't even know what an inch was, or how to read a ruler! I don't know if that's just being uneducated, or being stupid, but how can somebody go thru grade school and not know what an inch was, or how to read a ruler? Is ruler reading a high school subject? If so, this country is in a lot of trouble!

And when somebody looks at me with a dumb look and says "You want to do what?" and after explaining they say "Now why would you want to do that?" also with a dumb look, they're morons pure and simple.

[Rocket Man]

Scrap metal yards are not metallurgist. They buy scrap metal that is all they do.

[Bad Water Bill]

At my local yard they pay .09 per # and sell for .65. Yes they take caribbean cruises and drive Mercedes convertibles.

[a.squibload]

The one I go to most often has the "ray gun" analyzer,
they knew exactly what I wanted to know and tested for free.
I have a bunch of steel, friends know I want lead and
bring me their old auto parts, etc. to trade in.

[Recluse]

And when somebody looks at me with a dumb look and says "You want to do what?" and after explaining they say "Now why would you want to do that?" also with a dumb look, they're morons pure and simple.

I bet you just make dumptruck loads of friends everywhere you go.

If I wanted to test some metals out for the specificities that you describe, I would think only a moron would go to a scrap yard where their primary, and generally ONLY, purpose is to take in as much various metal as they can for as low a price as they can, then sell as much as they can for as high a dollar amount/ratio per weight unit as they can--and then expect them to have a $30K to $60K piece of intricate machinery and the BA/BS/MA/MS/PhD staff to immediately snap to and tell you the molecular structure and gravity weight, etc etc of the chunk of metal you were holding in your hands.

Instead, I think I might wander to someplace like maybe. . . a machine shop, or even. . . maybe. . . a college university where they have labs and equipment (all funded by taxpayer dollars for the most part) and an abundance of students who'd love to take on an extracurricular project in exchange for maybe a 12-pack of adult beverage or maybe a pizza or even the chance to shoot some of those mysterious metal projectiles.

Not everyone who deals in metal, or even lead, is a shooter or even a boolit caster and thus, probably couldn't care less what such a piece of metal we're holding in our hands means to us.

WE'RE viewed as morons and rednecks all too often in the gun world, and it often burns us up. But you get what you give in this world, including the attitude and superiority complex you portray to others.

I get more lead and scrap metal by hanging around for a few minutes at such places and talking TO these folks rather than talking down to them. I'll order them a pizza or reach in the back of my truck and pull out an iced-down 12-pack or some fishing lures and the result is those redneck morons remember me and often SAVE things for me.

One place even sends me texts on my cell phone when they get a good load of scrap in.

Dunno. *shrug* Guess it's all in individual perspectives.

:coffee:

[troyboy]

We all clowns in the same circus

[izzyjoe]

you have to remember that most scrap yards have to deal with crack heads, you know the one's stealing copper on a daily basis. and it's a big PITA for them cause now they have to do more work to keep track of people and scrap. so if they give you funny looks, just explain yourself and hopefully they will understand.

[MikeS]

I bet you just make dumptruck loads of friends everywhere you go.

If I wanted to test some metals out for the specificities that you describe, I would think only a moron would go to a scrap yard where their primary, and generally ONLY, purpose is to take in as much various metal as they can for as low a price as they can, then sell as much as they can for as high a dollar amount/ratio per weight unit as they can--and then expect them to have a $30K to $60K piece of intricate machinery and the BA/BS/MA/MS/PhD staff to immediately snap to and tell you the molecular structure and gravity weight, etc etc of the chunk of metal you were holding in your hands. ...

But you get what you give in this world, including the attitude and superiority complex you portray to others.

As a matter of fact, I do make bunches of friends.

I would never have thought to go to a scrap yard, except after reading many posts here from folks that get their lead 'shot' at the local scrap yard! I don't know where you live, but around here to get into most universities you need to show your student ID card to the security guard at the gate!

As for portraying a superiority complex, or attitude, I'm unaware that I'm doing such a thing. As for talking down to the people at the scrap yard, how do you know how I talked to them, were you there? As for hanging around the scrap yard, around here you couldn't do that, the few I went to were very busy places, with bunches of people standing around with piles of scrap, and if you weren't there to sell something, they want you to leave. The thing is, I could barely tell who were crack addicts trying to sell scrap they stole, and who worked at the scrap yard.

It's a strange place where I got looked down on because I wasn't wearing torn dirty clothes, and only had a small 2# piece of lead with me, not a shopping cart (stolen from the local supermarket) full of scrap! Around here shopping carts are stolen so often that a few stores have installed electronic locks on them, if you try and take them out of the store's parking lot the front wheels lockup!

If my posts made it seem like I was talking down to these folks, I'm sorry for giving the wrong impression.

If I call somebody or some group of people morons here, it has nothing to do with how I interacted with them while I was there. Tell me that nobody here has ever had a cordial conversation with somebody, and when you walked away thought to yourself 'Wow, that guy/girl/etc. is a moron (or stupid, or a jerk, or whatever you thought of them).

[bowfin]

I agree with Recluse on this one. Calling a group of people "morons" just because you didn't get satisfaction is somewhat harsh.

The junk guys might have been busy. Then you pull up and they size you up as someone who wasn't going to buy or sell anything, yet you make requests (demands?) on their time and patience. So with a wink and a nod they decid to yank your chain by playing dumb or playing you for dumb. Heck, I've played the passive aggressive game before with people who are giving me a hard time. Give them a blank stare just to watch the frustration grow, or give them exactly what they want when I knew full well it was exactly opposite of what they need. Or tell them "Unless you can tell me the exact diameter of that shaft, I cant make a new one ..." while holding a micrometer in my hand. Then again, for people who treat me as an equal, I would never pull those stunts.

I thought you were a little short with people in another thread who were offering up suggestions on how to get the larger pieces of lead down to manageable size. You wanted only buyers to post, it seemed.

Yet now, you are still facing the same problem. I wonder if the "junkyard morons" could have helped you cut them up or give you a great swap or price for those too big to handle lead pieces.

[MikeS]

Perhaps I was 'a little short' with people in another thread. Remember, that thread was in the swappin & sellin forum, was specifically about selling lead bricks. It was not a discussion forum, or a thread about how to cut lead pigs. I happened to mention that my supplier of the lead bricks I'm selling also had some pigs of an unknown alloy, and then got almost a whole page of suggestions on how to cut the lead pigs! If it had been in a discussion forum like this one, those suggestions would have been fine. Everything has a proper place, and a post trying to sell lead bricks is not the appropriate place to discuss how to cut lead pigs. As for the folks at the junkyard cutting lead, it never got asked or discussed, as I went there with a 2"x4"x1" piece of lead. As it turns out, the lead pigs that my supplier has are a mix of wheel weights, both clip on, and stick on, and I'm not going to get involved with them, so it's all a moot point. And there's a difference between playing dumb, and being dumb. At the scrap yards I went to (as I imagine at most of them) there were the laborer types, and the management types, I wouldn't expect the laborers to understand anything about knowing what alloy a chunk of lead was, but the management types certainly should have known what I was talking about.

Back when I was in the leatherworking machinery business, I knew not only how to build our machinery, but also what it was used for, what it's capabilities were, AND those same capabilities of the competition's machinery. Could I tell you every step involved in making a saddle, or a gun holster, or a belt, yes, even those that had nothing to do with the machinery we made. I would think that somebody that bought and sold metals scrap or otherwise should at least have known what I was talking about. Perhaps not have the equipment, but at least have an understanding that there is such a thing as an alloy, and that what looks like lead could have other metals in it, or what looks like steel could have other metals in it, I don't think that's asking too much of a person in that line of work.

Perhaps those people have got a different attitude than I would expect them to have from dealing with the dregs of society for so long, sort of how cops tend to think of everyone that's not a cop as a potential 'bad guy'. In my business experience I learned not to judge people by face value. I've seen people come in wearing expensive clothes, talking a good talk, but didn't have $20.00 in their pocket. I've also seen a guy walk in, wearing a Tee shirt, and old jeans, talking about wanting to buy an entire factory worth of machinery, and when told that to properly start setting up a factory would require a $50k investment, he pulled it out of his pocket, in cash! (this was back before Big Brother needed to be informed if a citizen is carrying more than $10k in cash) That same guy went on to spend $250k setting up a complete factory in TX.

As I mentioned before, I treat people with the same respect I would expect them to treat me. I don't think I talk 'down' to anyone, and if it seems that I do, that's probably just another example of how typed words on an internet forum can't & don't come across the same as live face to face conversation.

[btroj]

I don't think it has to do with another thread. I just don't like calling someone a moron because they treated you poorly. The yard you went to views all lead alloy as lead. So what? I bought a bunch of monotype for the same price as wheel weights. Ds I think the guy is a moron for saying lead is lead? Nope, I was quite pleased.
We need to realize that we are small time operators in the metal industry. I may go buy 500 pounds of lead but the big boys may buy 5 tons. I don't expect to get the royal treatment, it is a scrap yard after all. I ask what they have, get a price, and buy or leave. No more, no less.

I was just a bit put off by the tone of your original post. Nothing against you, I just prefer to keep things in context and not blame others for my false assumptions.

Brad

[jsizemore]

I'm going to point out the obvious since nobody else has.

Mike, aren't you one of the scrapyards 'clinentele'?

I always try to remember such things when the name calling starts. I try to learn new things every day so I'm less of a moron.

[468]

"In my business experience I learned not to judge people by face value." Thats exactly what you're doing. You referred to the scrap yard's clientelle as "crack heads" and "dregs of society".

"... at least have an understanding that there is such a thing as an alloy, and that what looks like lead could have other metals in it" As I mentioned in a previous post, all they need to know is if its hard, soft, or mixed. They do not care what the alloy is for their purposes. They do not sell lead based on the specific alloy. They don't need to know. It is your own ignorance that is causing your frustration. I'm not calling you a moron, just pointing out the fact that you are not knowledgable regarding various metal alloys, sorting metals, or the scrap business in general.

Don't be so quick to pass judgement just because you didn't get what you wanted, or because "the folks at the scrap yards were looking at me like I was growing a third arm out of my back," :takinWiz:on judgemental peolple.

[MikeS]

Ok, this thread is really serving no purpose. Several people posting here have taken it upon themselves to 'know' how I talked to / treated the people at the scrap yards. What I say here, or how I think about somebody doesn't reflect on how I treated them. So far I've typed and erased this message 4 times, I can't put my thoughts into words at the moment, so I'm going to leave this whole topic aside. Nobody here knows me, or what I think say or do, and I don't know anyone here, so everyone is free to think what they want of me, I really don't care.

[btroj]

We don't know you at all Mike. That is true. What we do know is the way your original post came across. Describing the customers of the yard as "crack addicts" and the employees as "morons" certainly doesn't come across well.

Had you said " I was certainly not impressed with the way the guy at the scrap years treated me when I asked for a compositional analysis of the lead I had. He looked at me like I was nuts or something.". That does not come across as derogatory or inflammatory at all.

It is all about the way things come across on a forum such as this. I understand very well as I have learned over the years that sarcasm can easily come across as being an a$$.

I hold no I'll will towards you. Chalk this up as a learning experience about this site. People here tend to get riled up over failure to be polite.

[scb]

Hey Mike they're your words. Saying you don't talk to people like that to their face but do it behind their back doesn't really improve your standing in my book.

[MikeS]

We don't know you at all Mike. That is true. What we do know is the way your original post came across. Describing the customers of the yard as "crack addicts" and the employees as "morons" certainly doesn't come across well.

Ok, let me ask this, if a LEO who's had lots of experience with dealing with crack addicts describes somebody as a crack addict, does that come across any better? From businesses I've been in I've had lots of exposure to crack addicts, and drug addicts of all kinds, including alcoholics as well, enough so that I can spot one a mile away. If a person looks like a crack addict, acts like a crack addict, smells like a crack addict, there's a good chance they're a crack addict! So, should I describe the crack addict as "that nice clean cut scrap yard customer, that purchased a shopping cart from Winn Dixie to carry around all the scrap brass they just happened to have", or "The crack addict with the stolen shopping cart full of stolen brass"? Which would be more correct? Considering that Winn Dixie doesn't sell their shopping carts, and if the person had all that scrap brass that they got thru legitimate ways, I doubt they would be happy to sell it to the scrap yards for the amount they pay.

And as I said before, the scrap yards around here don't SELL lead to the general public, only buy it, so bringing a pizza, or six pack, would do very little if anything, other than maybe get the employee in trouble with their boss, so I don't see where it would help get them to 'like' me (if I even cared about that).

scb: Commenting about somebody that remains nameless, and an unknown to anyone on this forum is hardly talking about them behind their backs. If I told you that you're a nice guy in a public message here, then in a PM to btroj said I thought you were a moron, THAT would be talking behind your back. Not that I'm particularly worried about my standing in your book!

As somebody else pointed out to me, and the more I thought about it, the more I realized they were right, somebody doesn't get a minimum wage job at a dirty job such as working at a scrap yard because they're intelligent, and highly skilled, so I suppose it's normal for them to be less intelligent & less skilled than many other people.

But I still take issue with the fact that if a forum member here that was known to be a LEO made a remark about somebody being a crack addict, nobody would have a problem with it. But because I made the remark, without a LEO background, but one that's dealt with crack addicts every bit as much as LEOs do, I'm being judgmental in calling somebody one?

[justingrosche]

I recently made a trip to a local scrap yard to turn in some scrap brass,and in the 15 minutes I was there, the guy driving the fork lift backed into a truck, and tipped over a bin nearly crushing a woman that was turning in pop cans. I can't say whether he was a crackhead or not but he certainly had deminished brain function.

[cajun shooter]

Mike S, This forum was and is based on such things as being nice to others, treating your fellow members as you want them to treat you and post to give help not negative words.
I can and have spotted many an "addict" as a former Narcotics Division Agent for over 6 years . To be able to say what drug some one is high on is able to be done by blood and urine test. Not even a Doctor may look and say, This one is on crack, This one is on heroin and so on. The "crack addict" is a TV term that has stuck with us because of the news and other TV programs. The term is used around metal salvage yards to describe any person that has meager clothing and body odor and appears to be unwashed. For the most part they are down on their luck and trying to make enough to buy food. Just because a person is with out a steady job and a home makes him no less of a human than the next man. A pat on the shoulder and the offer of a meal goes a lot further. I don't give them money in case they are fighting another type of addiction like alcohol.

[t_dickinson]

Are we not getting just a little too PC and sensitive? The OP's statement may have been better put. So what? Is it worth dissecting every word and dragging this useless thread out forever?

It kills me that someone will ask a common question and get "Use the search" but a point-of-view topic like this can exist until there are no more holier than thou replies to be made. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Lots of rocks flying here.

I say things the wrong way and so do all of you. Let it go for crying out loud.

The other day, the OP was the first to offer 26 lbs of FREE lead to a 16 year old boy who was about to give up casting because he could not find materials. What a creap huh? Do I agree with ALL of his opinions and the way he conveys them? No, but actions speak louder than words with me. He got pissed, ranted and tried to move on. Why don't we all do the same?

I sure hope the mods see fit to end this sooner rather than later so we can get back to talking about LEAD AND LEAD ALLOYS


"James:

Send me a PM with your shipping info. I'm going to send you a 26lb brick of pure lead. It won't be right away, as I still have a few bricks I have to ship to folks that bought them from me, but I will get one out your way, just don't give up! You're young, if you stick with it, you'll have a hobby (shooting, boolit casting, etc.) that you can enjoy for the rest of your life! (or until you get married!)

Just remember, the lead I'm sending you is pure, so you'll have to mix it with some harder lead to shoot it in modern firearms. If you choose to get into muzzle loaders, then pure is exactly what you would need. "
__________________
- MikeS

[MikeS]

I can and have spotted many an "addict" as a former Narcotics Division Agent for over 6 years . To be able to say what drug some one is high on is able to be done by blood and urine test. Not even a Doctor may look and say, This one is on crack, This one is on heroin and so on. The "crack addict" is a TV term that has stuck with us because of the news and other TV programs.

I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore, but I do want to say one thing in answer to this. Yes, only a blood and/or urine test can say with 100% certainty exactly what drugs an addict is on, but I have to disagree with not being able to see a crack addict from a heroin addict. crack, or lets get more correct, freebase cocaine addicts, or users of speed are all using 'uppers' and will usually be buzzing along, sometimes so much so that they appear to be vibrating. Heroin addicts, or users of Oxycontin are using a 'downer' and will look like they're about to fall asleep, and will in fact 'nod off' sometimes while you're talking to them! Those are 2 very different actions. When I'm talking to somebody, and they're 'bouncing off the walls' shaking, etc. and they're a known drug user, I can be 90% sure they're on crack. The same as if I'm talking to somebody, and they fall asleep 5 times during the conversation, and again, they're a known drug user, I can be pretty sure what they're using. Just seeing the 'track marks' doesn't tell much other than that they are using drugs, because either cocaine, or heroin (or crushed up pills) can be shot into the veins. One time I got a phone call from a friend of mine, and he said to me "Don't ever send a cab for me again that's being driven by a crack addict" so I asked him why he thought the driver was a crack addict, to which he said "Because the driver kept hitting the pipe while driving down the road" When I called that driver into the office, and asked him why he was smoking crack while he was working, he said to me" I don't smoke crack, why, do you think I should?" all the while he could not keep still, and his finger tips had the typically charred look that crack addicts get from burning their fingers on the glass 'pipe' they use to smoke crack. I sent the driver home for the night, rather than firing him, as I happen to like him, and he's had some misfortune in his life which makes his drug use understandable. That doesn't make him less of a crack addict, only one that I understand.


The term is used around metal salvage yards to describe any person that has meager clothing and body odor and appears to be unwashed. For the most part they are down on their luck and trying to make enough to buy food. Just because a person is with out a steady job and a home makes him no less of a human than the next man. A pat on the shoulder and the offer of a meal goes a lot further. I don't give them money in case they are fighting another type of addiction like alcohol.

I don't know what terms are used around salvage yards, they're not places I hang out at. But I gotta say, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, there's a good chance it's a duck! Back when hurricane Andrew devastated much of Miami, one of the guys that worked for us was volunteering down there, and when he was on his way home, he still had about a half a dozen of the boxed up 'meals' that FEMA was giving out to folks, and when he got off the highway, there was a person standing there with a 'Will work for food' sign, so feeling sorry for the guy, he reached back, and pulled out 2 of the meals to hand to him, when they guy told him "F%$k that ****, I want money". And as for giving one of those people a pat on the back, I would only do it if I was wearing rubber gloves, and had lots of sanitizer handy!

If I'm not being PC, well, I'm sorry. I've worked with many people that had either drug, or alcohol problems,(or both) enough so that I can see a person like that without having to do too much looking. Some of them I've felt sorry for, others not.

[Three44s]

Gentlemen and Gentle Ladies,

We don't need to battle one another here ............ the forces that are raising our tension levels are well known and are the same forces at work to remove the availablity of lead and it's alloys from us in the first place.

If we spin our wheels fighting each other ......... they have won ............ lets instead insure their defeat in 2012 while we still have a country to call home.


Three 44s

[468]

How 'bout dem Saints?!!!

Mike, send me that lead ingot and I'll tell everyone you're a nice guy.;)

[TrapperXX]

No dog in the fight and I usually will not comment in argumentative threads but I'd like to say this and it is not for the OP or anyone else in particular. It's just what I try and think like, since my life was was given to the Lord.
For me, when I see a drug addict, alcoholic, thief, homeless person, evil person, etc etc etc...I try and think,,
There but for the grace of God, go I. I was pretty lost at times in my life.
God loves all of us the same. He loves us so much that he provided a way for us to be forgiven, overcome what has us bound and live forever. I try an remember that Jesus hung out with and interacted with the sinners of his day.
That's my .03. :grin:

[snowman]

A little disappointed in this thread.

I spend a lot of time in the scrap yards. I know everyone that works there by name, and I know a lot of the guys that come in by name. I know which ones to trust, and which ones not to. I know that some have their demons, but wouldn't wager a bet as to what they are.

I used to be like you...the jittery ones were crackheads and the slow ones were on heroin. Then I figured out that the jittery ones were often actually suffering from adult adhd, and the slow ones were just that, slow. The ones I never wondered about were the ones using. You have to be pretty competent to be able to get enough scrap to the yard to support a habit, and you aren't that once you've been using for a while.

If you aren't going to spend time in the yard, it's best to just keep your mouth shut. You would have likely gotten the same result from a yard with an XR scanner, as they play dumb. I know the yards with a scanner, and I can get stuff scanned when it's worthwhile...but I don't waste their time either. You have to understand, to have a 50k tool that is used for one purpose, one has to know how to use it to make $$....and they don't do this by checking your lead for a few dollars.

Food never got me a thing in a scrap yard except thank you, and I wouldn't think of offering beer. I actually find that pretty unprofessional. What I do is help where I can. Once I learned my way around, I sort things or help out newbies coming in (by pointing them to the proper people, or helping with directions).

I will tell you that the people that work their bust their ***. Most people coming in are slow as to what the procedures are, and they put up with a lot of BS. Everybody is an expert, but ultimately they are judged by what their purchaser or their boss tells them, not by what the XR scanner says, not by what your engineering background or your business background says either.

[TangoDownPro]

Sounds like a lot of work for wheel weights... Simply because there's no way I could tolerate the kind of jack-a-loons who work at scrap yards. I'd just rather buy lead bricks off of eBay. Guess I'm lazy that way.

[383]

I have a small amount of scrap aluminum, steel, cast iron and brass I'd like to trade for lead, but don't know if it's even worth the hassle of hauling to the local scrap yard.

[bslim]

Went to a different scrap yard this morning to unload some scrap brass. While I was waiting I asked the girl if they buy lead. She said yes and what kind did I have? So I told her Wheel Weights. She commented that if the steel clips were still attatched, this would be dirty lead and they would pay me $.10/lb. So then I asked her if they sell lead. Yes, just go across to the other counter and they will help you out. So, at the other counter, Yes we sell lead, $1.25/lb. + taxes. No distinction between any types of lead, just if it's lead it's $1.25 / lb. No quite that desperate at any rate, but a nice mark up from one counter to the next one.

[lars1367]

Some places have ridiculous environmental laws restricting the sale of "contaminated" lead from scrapyards. A good yard should have an X-ray gun (at least I think that's what it is called). The ones I have dealt with will analyze it if you ask, otherwise it's just bought/sold as contaminated lead (lead alloy or lead with other stuff attached) for so much a lb. I'm lucky to have found a reputable dealer in my area, even if I am limited to how much I can purchase at a time.

[tengaugetx]

I bought 440lbs of wheel weights from a scrap yard just today at lunch. The people there actually seemed like pretty nice folks. They weighed the weights, poured them into different containers, weighed the empties and subtracted that from the total weight. I paid them $88 and they put the buckets in my truck. We all smiled and thanked each other before I drove off.