new to me garand has a glitch

[shoestring]

after falling in love with the first one i got to play with, 24 years later I finally bought my own. I purchase a springfield correct grade from cmp along with 2 boxes of surp. greek in the enbloc. I stripped it down and cleaned the packing grease out of every nook and cranny and got it spotlessly clean. I greased the proper points and oiled the other places and went to the range. It shoots like a dream and is suprisingly accurate. if I'm lucky i can get all 8 rounds thru it without a glitch, but more often than not I get a feed malfunction. a round will get wedged in diagonally with the point of the bullet missing the chamber to the left and the head of the case in the enbloc to the right as viewed from the top. I pull the bolt back a little and move the round in line with the bore, close the bolt and finish off the clip without a problem. when this happens it only does it to one round per clip. it doesn't seem to matter if it was first round was in the clip right or left. and it happens at about round # 4 or 5. the last round never fails to lock the bolt open so short stroking doesn't seem to be the problem. the empty clip ejects ok with about 12" clearance from the rifle. I expected it to fly higher but it works. another thing that seems odd is there is no consistency to where the empty brass lands. some is infront of me, some is beside me and some is behind me. the brass is ejected plenty hard, but i'm not getting the "neat little pile" that some garand shooters boast about. these greek clips are pretty tight, unloading a full one by hand takes a bit of pulling. the clips are bone dry, like they were sprayed off with brake clean and the brass will have a scratch in it from the clip when you pull it out. the follower has plenty of spring pressure to it and it takes a pretty hefty push to get a full clip seated. the bolt never closes on the first round without a good whack to it.
without the spring installed, the op-rod/bolt will move freely when you tilt the rifle up and down. it doesn't even take a 45 degree tilt to do it. with the rifle assembled, i don't see any signs of binding in the action at all.
A local smith has a few "known to be good" USGI enblocks he will loan me to see if that eliminates my problem. If it doesn't, i'm at a loss other than different ammo. I wasn't thrilled buying greek surp but it was all cmp has, besides the high dollar hornady stuff. the smith is more of a hand gun guy but does some work on garands. I'm going to try and find a local smith that is more dedicated to garands. I'm also going to buy "the book" soon. anyone have a suggestion that might help my problem? thanks SS.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I`d try another type of ammo before anything drastic is done. The empty brass is distributed about like yours does as mine does. Yes, the clips can be to tight and cause a hic-up in the feeding. The phosphate finish can cause a drag in the cycling process. The neat little pile of empties is a result of an adjustable gas nut, yours is just doing what a garand does normally with ejection of both empties and the clip.Robert

[Jack Stanley]

One of my Garands has the misfeed you describe but only sometimes and only using Greek clips . US clips with greek ammo works fine in it and other rifles aren't affected at all by feeding them Greek clips/ammo . Some of them pile the empties a little closer together and some don't . With my rifles it's a matter of tolerances of extractor/ejector/springs and such but Hardcast is right , an adjustable gas nut can help you tune that up if that's what you want . As long as they are coming out without hitting you it sounds like it's running fine .

Jack

[Uncle Grinch]

99% of the time I shoot my Garand, it's with Greek HXP ammo and the clips that they came with. Never had a problem like you describe. My Garand loves the Greek stuff.

[Multigunner]

The internal finish of clips and magazines has been a problem with other firearms in the past. Not long ago they found that the majority of the Magazines supplied for use in the M9 pistol had been given a fairly coarse internal finish. This caused no problems till infiltrated by fine grit in Iraq and Afghanistan. Replacement mags were then obtained.

British .303 chargers often have a rough finish, Regulations for musketry suggested these be smoothed out and oiled (lightly) before use to avoid problems when reloading in a hurry.

Best guess is the clips, but there might be another small issue that wouldn't show up if not for the extra drag of the clips.

[Bill*]

Reported --- (spam) gone now, Thanks Moderator! [smilie=p:

[nicholst55]

I would also suspect that the Greek clips are the problem; they have a spotty reputation.

[462]

Years ago, I bought 100 IMI clips and started experiencing an occasional 7th-round jam, exactly as described above. But only with the 7th-round. As an experiment, I started marking and segregating the clips that functioned as designed from those that were in the gun when it jammed. Subsequent reloading and firing of both groups of clips showed that the known good clips continued to function flawlessly, while the others caused more jams.

Unless someone has a better explanation, I suspect that the bad clips were lacking sufficient tension to properly retain the last two cartridges, as the clip emptied.

[frkelly74]

I seem to remember a discussion on the 7th round jam somewhere about stacking the rounds in the clip so that the top one was always to the right or left. I can not remember which way was "better". But you might just try some both ways and see if it makes any difference.

[Multigunner]

I seem to remember a discussion on the 7th round jam somewhere about stacking the rounds in the clip so that the top one was always to the right or left. I can not remember which way was "better". But you might just try some both ways and see if it makes any difference.

From what I've read on the subject, which is very little, Early production receivers often had part of the clip guide milled away due to a manufacturing error.
Apparently as many of the affected receivers as possible were called in and a repair done by welding and re machining the clip guide on that side.

Since the problem was not a constant one, I suspect that variations in clip quality could cause jams some of the time and not at others. Enbloc clips were sometimes reused, so a clip that had lost some spring tension or been damaged might be more prone to causing a misfeed in the receiver with the defective guide rail.

Also you can figure that some repairs were less well done than others, and may not have entirely cured the situation.

I wish I had not sold my Garand, but at the time I figured on getting a recent production repro as a shooter, then later found there were problems with those. Best to get a decent CMP rifle and only replace parts that really need to be replaced.
Mine was an early Springfield with un notched op rod. I traded that old rod to a collector for a NIB notched rod. The collector was rebuilding an old Springfield Garand and wanted it in as issued condition, to be historically correct. He also threw in a NIB condition gas cylinder and plug and cranked on a used matchgrade barrel I'd found at a gunshow without charge. Some mighty good people out there.

Something about that particular Garand gave me a creepy feeling, as if it had been involved in an evil act long ago. Superstition maybe, but I couldn't shake that feeling.

[462]

I seem to remember a discussion on the 7th round jam somewhere about stacking the rounds in the clip so that the top one was always to the right or left. I can not remember which way was "better". But you might just try some both ways and see if it makes any difference.

That problem was cleared up well before the onset of WW II, if I remember correctly from Hatcher's Notebook, and it had to do with a change in the machining of the receiver. Till the actual reason was discovered, clips were loaded with the top round on the left.

I did try loading clips with the top round on the left, but the jam would still occur, occasionally. Loading a clip with the top round on the right is done to aid inserting the clip into the receiver, and has nothing to do with feeding and/or functioning...either left or right will work.

Edit to add: How about that, Multigunner, we both posted at 7:39.

[Multigunner]

Edit to add: How about that, Multigunner, we both posted at 7:39.

I was .00000000001 sec faster on the submit button. I guess that means I win!!!!
[smilie=w:

[462]

I was .00000000001 sec faster on the submit button. I guess that means I win!!!!
[smilie=w:

Yep, and the winning prize is the jam-causing clips;-)

[shotman]

well I have heard the top on the left several times. I never thought it mattered. But just for the heck of it I opened a ammo can that is factory 1942 DEN the ammo is new in the clips and in the banolears ALL are loaded with the top round to left. That could be way machine done it dont know . I do know that the clips have good and bad ones . Try something , spray the loaded clip with silcone and let it dry . See if that dont help.

[Multigunner]

well I have heard the top on the left several times. I never thought it mattered. But just for the heck of it I opened a ammo can that is factory 1942 DEN the ammo is new in the clips and in the banolears ALL are loaded with the top round to left. That could be way machine done it dont know . I do know that the clips have good and bad ones . Try something , spray the loaded clip with silcone and let it dry . See if that dont help.

Probably not a good idea to get lubricants on the cartridge cases.
I never heard of oily cases being a big problem with the Garand, which has a very strong action, but there are several sources including the NRA UK that state that oiled cases damage older rifles and a wet case can crack the action body of an SMLE rifle.
Some autoloaders actually depended on lubricated cases, either oiled as fed or waxed.

A polishing of the inside of the clips with steel wool then spray unloaded clips with a preservative oil like WD40 and let the oil dry to leave a protective coat with some lubrication that won't transfer to the cartridge case might do the trick.

The Garand may have the strongest lockin system of any rifle of its type, but better safe than sorry.
In tests using proof test cartridges of 125,000 CUP the Garand held up fine for some ungodly number of rounds, though it broke one locking lug. Even with only one lug it continued to hold together with no damage to the receiver.

At the very least a lubricated case can make accuracy inconsistent.

If steel wool doesn't do the trick try a 3M abrasive pad then steel wool and WD40.

[Frank46]

Get some fine silicon carbide paper and polish the insides of the 303 strippers to remove the burrs and sometimes heavy parkerizing. Will also work on garand clips as well. Frank

[Gtek]

First remove OP-spring and confirm no kinks, bends. Should be between 19.5" and 20.25" free.
Bolt not closing to battery chambering round and arcing ejection pattern are usually spring issue. Requires spring gauge check for confirmation. The geometry on the follower arm changes along with spring pressure as you work through rounds in clip. Also changing upward pressure on bottom of bolt very slightly changing cyclic rate. Sounds like clips are tight also. Check spring, scrounge up some more clips. The HXP is good stuff. Gtek

[Char-Gar]

I had last round feeding problem with my Garand. I tried many different clips and gave careful attention to how they were loaded. Nothing helped.

Then I replaced the operating rod spring with a fresh one and have never had the problem again.

[Hip's Ax]

http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?20008-I-recommend-you-don-t-use-the-clips-with-the-CMP-Greek-ammo.

[shoestring]

so if i read that thread right, there is no such thing as a greek clip? and the german ones may be the problem?

[Multigunner]

Good thing I kept all my GI clips. If I get another Garand looks like I'll need them.

[ktw]

so if i read that thread right, there is no such thing as a greek clip? and the german ones may be the problem?

What I got out of it was that the extractor groove on HXP brass got deeper around 1972, similar to the extractor groove on 7.62 NATO and deeper than the groove on regular M2 ball.

The German clips work well with the post 72 HXP brass and not so well with regular groove M2 brass. Apparently the Greeks modified the brass to work with the supply of clips they had on hand.

Thanks to Hip's Axe for posting the link. I found it useful and informative.

-ktw

[Hip's Ax]

Thanks for the kind words. Jouster has been THE place for Garands and CMP activity for well over a decade. Its owned and run by Major Dick Culver and his wife Gloria. You've seen Major Culver on the History Channel and I had the pleasure of meeting him at Camp Perry in 2005.

Gus Fisher is only one of the life long Garand gurus that hangs at Jouster. From debugging to collecting to match shooting Jouster is the place to be if you love Garands. They also have some famous other forums IE 03 Springfield and Enfield amoung others.

[shotman]

well I didnt mean wet lube silcon drys and dont collect dust
Oh I said the can was 42 it is 48 but the clips are all SA have seen them on feebay at $5 each

[Multigunner]

well I didnt mean wet lube silcon drys and dont collect dust
Oh I said the can was 42 it is 48 but the clips are all SA have seen them on feebay at $5 each

I know the sort of silicone spray you mean, we used it alot at work. It does remain very slick when dry.
Slick to the touch doesn't always mean it will be slick under pressure though.
Best to not get it on the cartridge case itself just to be on the safe side.

Most semi auto designs need a good slick chamber wall to allow ease of extraction, so its really hard to say whats too slick for an autoloader compared to the run of the mill bolt action or lever action repeaters that benefit from some level of case wall grip under pressure.


PS
I just remembered something that might be relevant.
Its been years since I owned a Garand but IIRC when the op rod compresses the recoil spring this applies extra force on the follower/cartridge lifter arm to ensure that the crartridges are raised high enough to feed.
This extra force isn't apparent just by looking at the action or the schematics, so a manufacturer of enbloc clips might think that the materials suited to the old mannlicher type enbloc clips would work just as well for a Garand clip. A clip that seemed fine could tend to deform during the actual firing and cycling of the garand if the temper of the steel was just tad off.