Small Caiber Patches

[grullaguy]

My hats off to all of you that paper patch 30 cal and smaller. I just PPd twenty .310" bullets up to .315". What a pain! This little task took me over an hour and a half.
I was using cash register tape as it was the thinnest paper I had on hand. Even at that, if I went two full wraps, I was up to .319" I tried folding and twisting the tails and twisting wins for me in this application. I am still a ways off from testing my handiwork as I still am short a shell holder for my priming tool, powder and primers.
Reloading dies for .303 will be an even longer wait as I am trying to save pennies.
Yep, that is all the fun I can handle. Off to bed.

[303Guy]

Hee Hee! :mrgreen: I thought you were going to talk about patching 22's.

It helps if the boolit is quite long which just so happens to be right up a 303's ally. Unless you have the unusual fortune of possessing a mint bore that's on spec. I have one of those and it makes patching difficult - I've dropped down to a 185gr boolit and it is difficult to patch! 208grs fit the magazine and are long enough to patch easily but they don't fit the bore. I tried patching for my 25 and that's not too bad as the boolit is as long as the 208gr 303 boolit (I made the mold - 121grs). I've had success with softish alloy. Oh, it also helps with a perfectly fitting patch which is easier said than done if the boolit happens to be tapered like I make mine. But I found a way. However, I'm still left with cutting the patches out individually with scissors. Not a problem when there's nothing interesting on the telly.:popcorn:

[pdawg_shooter]

I am with you. I still patch 30cals but had to give up on anything smaller than that. Used to patch all my 25-06 rounds but my old hand just wont take it any more.

[grullaguy]

It helps if the boolit is quite long which just so happens to be right up a 303's ally.

Ah, that may be part of my problem. I horse traded some Lee Enfield armourer's tools, and some .308 FMJs for seven hundred and fifty 310 diameter, 165 grain, round nose flat points. They are pretty stubby. I only hope I can load them far enough out of the casing so that they can engage the rifling.

[docone31]

I load my .30s and .303 loads to standard load lengths.
The base of the casting is below the shoulder and I have yet to notice any degrading of accuracy.
These are loaded with smokeless powder. I do not know how they would work with BP. Perhaps they need to be loaded differently.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Some things are better left unpatched. BvT

[303Guy]

I have found that the old 303 Brit barrels wear the rifling leade into a gradual angle which is perfect for the patched boolit as the boolits can be chambered right into the 'leade'. A tapered fore-shank boolit is easier to deal with as it fits a wider range of throat conditions.

My two rifles that have shot accurately with PPCB's have the patch at bore diameter where they chamber leaving the core quite under-bore size at that point.

[6.5 mike]

BVT, if I can cast it, sooner or later I'm going to try to patch it. [smilie=l:

[grullaguy]

My first attempt at the range was a complete failure, with the bullets failing to hit a 12" X 12" target at 20 yards.
I can't say that I am surprised. To remain supported by the neck of the cartridge the bullet had to be seated too far back from the start of the rifling.
Before loading these bullets, I placed one about a quarter of an inch into the case mouth and chambered the round. The bullet was not pushed back into the case neck during chambering, indicating that it was far too short.
Because I wanted to make a bang and also to test some new loads for my handgun, I then loaded three patched bullets into cases so that the bullets were properly supported by the case necks and took them and my SMLE to the range.

[grullaguy]

OK. Back from the range again, from trying my stubby bullets. I felt that perhaps I was giving up on them too easily.
This time the bullets were seated to the base of the neck with wheat bran lightly packed behind them. (Filled to the neck with bran and the bullet pressed down.) - This solved one problem that I had the first time, which was the bullet tending to go into the case too much while seating with a die.
I pressed the bullet into the case by hand this time and the bran compacted right where I wanted the bullet seated. The case was filled with 43 grains of IMR 4350. This filled the case to the base of the cartridge neck.
At the range all three bullets struck the target at 25 yards. Two were 2.5" apart in the upper right of the target and the third bullet struck off the target but on the paper in the lower left corner. One bullet struck the paper straight but the other two hit the paper at an angle indicating stability issues. The two which struck at the angle where at opposite sides of the paper. I found shredded paper in front of the muzzle but only small pieces and very few of those.
I ended the day by firing some jacketed ammo that I have had around the house for years. This was factory loaded Canuck brand which might give you an idea of the age. The last Canuck round had no powder in it, so I got to remove a stuck bullet using an aluminum arrow and a rubber mallet.

[303Guy]

That's great! The next issue to address is boolit size and fit in the throat. I use a rod with a marking on it to check that the boolit sits in the thoat with its base flush with the base of the shoulder. For the Lee Enfield this is 7.62 inches (193.5mm). That's to where the bolt handle base sits. Too deep is no good and not deep enough not good iether. A slight nudge to get the boolit deep enough is just right. Hunting loads might need a little more freedom to be extracted if not fired. I find that a boolit seated with twisting pressure in an unsized case will always extract.

[grullaguy]

Hi 303Guy,

I have been trying to upload an image of the target and the bullets, but I cannot figure out how to size the images so they are small enough to send. 2.2Meg is a bit over the top.

However, I took a number of measurements.

The bullets are .92974 long, The length prior to the ogive is .422 and the diameter is .310. They measure right on at 165 grains.

The base of a patched bullet measures 190 mm to where the bolt handle base sits. With a unpatched bullet in the throat, the measurement is 196 mm.

I don't really know what these number will tell you, but you seem to have pretty good idea of what you are talking about. I, however have been having a hard time wrapping my head around some of the details....

Thanks again

[303Guy]

... but I cannot figure out how to size the images so they are small enough to send. 2.2Meg is a bit over the top.I ended up resizing pictures once uploaded to photobucket. It a long process. What I do first is crop the photo's before uploading them.

You've woken me up to something - I've been using the same measuring rod for all my 303's. One can't do that. Each one has it's own shoulder position! Well, some will be close enough.

The boolits that have worked for me have been 206gr by 26mm long as well as 208gr by 27mm long with a small hollow nose. Mine are smooth sided and pretty fat with no bore-ride nose section. They've also been pretty soft.

The boolits I am going to try now are 192gr by 25mm long. These do have a two diameter profile but do engage the leade and are profiled to fill the throat fully. They are for the rifle that cannot chamber my normal boolits and therefore require the shorter boolit without the two-diameter profile.

[grullaguy]

Last night I made some paraffin wads and tried to wrap them inside the patching paper in an attempt to lengthen these bullets.
My mistake was cutting them out with a fired .303 case. I should have used one of my 30-06 cases. Once wrapped, the patched bullets were too large where the wax wad is and wouldn't fit in the case. It was also near impossible to keep the wax from moving around while patching.

If I had access to a drill press, I would try to make a bullet mold for the correct size bullet. I have seen some interesting designs for making bullets for patching.
I refuse to pay Lee $200 or more to make either a custom mold or sizing die. That completely defeats the purpose of being frugal and self reliant by paper patching cast bullets.

We are also living through a mail strike, which makes it hard to order in a more suitable mold.
The Lee 200 grain .209 mold looks like the best commercial compromise. If I cast with soft lead, I might be able to get away without needing an additional sizing die. I have found that the casting part of shooting cast bullets is the cheap part. The expensive part is all the extra reloading equipment that I have continuously had to buy.

Ah, the tribulations of living in paradise.

[grullaguy]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1373

I did up some new loads today with 4 loaded with 39 grains of IMR 4350 and another 4 loaded with 40 grains of IMR 4831. The one flyer in the target is almost certainly due to my inexperienced patching technique.

I left my SMLE at home today and used my Ruger #1. The shallow throat on the Ruger must have been the factor needed for these shorter bullets.

I will leave the SMLE pp experiments until I have a more suitable bullet mold and sizing die.

All in all, I am a very happy man:lol:

[grullaguy]

I got my .304 sizing die in the mail yesterday. Thank you Buckshot!

Professional athletes run with weights to improve their endurance and speed. I think that is what I did trying to patch over sized bullets with junk paper.

Yesterday I sized a pile of bullets and then patched them with lined note paper. Two full wraps took me to exactly .001 larger than groove. I was able to patch 70 bullets in an hour and a half and it was a joy not to be fighting with tearing paper.

I got to test my bullets at the range today and had very good results with some combination's and less stellar results with others. More to follow on that as I am still trying to sort out the results.

However, I confirmed that the Ruger likes the 165 grain bullets that the SMLE did not like. I got a 3/4" group at 50 M with them using some powder that I had scavenged out of some old 30-06 ammunition.