Anyone shooting the .32 long colt?

[NoZombies]

I ask because I have several old .32 rimfires that have been slated to be converted to .32 S&W long. The reasons for the conversion are pretty simple, I already shoot a lot of .32 S&W long in other guns, I have a bunch of molds, and all the components and data to last me close to a lifetime.

BUT... Being someone who enjoys odd calibers, and since I've recently acquired a Hoch hollow base mold designed for the .32 long colt, I'm thinking of keeping one of the old .32 RF's in .32 colt.

The question I have though, is whether anyone has had any luck in getting accuracy out of the .32 long colt with the inside lubricated hollow base bullets? Th mold I have is NOT a heeled bullet, but rather a bore diameter (not groove) with a very generous hollow base, which is what the later .32 long colt went to. The Hb is intended to expand to engage the rifling and provide a seal, with the rest of the bullet "riding" the bore.

If anyone is shooting the HB bullets in the .32 colt with anything resembling accuracy, I would very much like to know how you arrived there.

If there's anyone out there shooting a .32 long colt with a heeled bullet, who doesn't have a HB mold, would you be willing to help me out by trying some bullets from my mold in your gun to compare accuracy? Maybe someone has a marlin 92?

Thanks for the help guys

[NoZombies]

This is the bullet that I'm talking about, it mic's at .304 with the alloy I had in the pot, and would probably be closer to .302-.303 with pure lead or 20-1.

http://nozombies.com/cast/32C.jpg

[ambergrifleman]

How do You Convert a .32 Rimfire to .32 Centerfire ?

[ambergrifleman]

Bullets Look Very Good !

[NoZombies]

How do You Convert a .32 Rimfire to .32 Centerfire ?

Well, the marlin 92 is very simple, it normally came with 2 firing pins, one for RF and one for CF, the .32 RF and the .32 colt are dimensionally interchangeable.

For other guns, there's a bit more work involved, usually altering the breech block and making a new firing pin. I have a rolling block and a falling block that I'm planning to convert, the question now, is which caliber the conversion will be.

[Guesser]

I know this isn't going to help, but yes, I shoot 32 Colt, long & short. I use the 90 gr., 299153, heeled. So it is not going to be the same process as your HB bullet. I shoot it in an early, 1910, Colt Police Positive. It is every bit as accurate as my other Colts that use 32 Police, 32 S&W, long & short.
But, in answer to your question; yes, I shoot 32 Long Colt.

[NoZombies]

Guesser, would you let me send you a handfull of these bullets for you to give me your opinion of their accuracy compared to the heeled bullet?

I'd probably cast them up from 20-1 for ductility with good fill out. I think some sort of tumble lube might be best considering the very shallow lube grooves.

[Mk42gunner]

I have been shooting .32 Short Colt (and some of the Navy Arms rimfire) out of my No 2 Remington, I haven't been able to find Long Colt cases when I had the extra funds.

Using Molly's separate loaded system with .313" boolits easily exceeds the accuracy of the &%^* Navy Arms .32 Long Rimfire, and no split cases or leading.

I will have to rerun my tests, I have misplaced my notes.

Robert

[2Tite]

Yes, I'm shooting the Long Colt in a Marlin, Rmington #4 and a Stevens Favorite. I just got a Lyman 299155 which closely resembles your bullet. Mine casts at .299 and I'll be trying them soon in the Remington which has q .308 groove diameter. I'd love to try some of your bullets as I'm thinking the Lyman bullet may be a little too small. I have some factory Remington and Wichester ammmunition that I can compare to. I'm also wondering if your .304 diameter will present problems going into the case. I've converted several rifles to 32 S&W. I think that's usually the best solution as Long Colt dies and molds can be a difficult and/or expensive solution. As a matter of fact, I have a Stevens 44 in the shop waiting for conversion to CF and 32 S&W right now. Anyhow I'd love to try some of your .304 diameter bullets and compare them to the Lyman bullet and factory ammo as well. PM me if you're interested in comparing notes...................

[Bent Ramrod]

About the only half-decent accuracy I've had with the Hollow Base boolit in original .32 Long barrels has been using 4.5 gr of Triple 7. It seems to have the blasting power to expand the hollow base but less buildup of fouling than Black. Every other load tried with the hollow bases was vastly inferior to the heeled boolits.

The Ballard has a kind of frosty bore, but not bad; and the Winchester barrel is as new. With both, however, "accuracy" is a sometime and comparative thing: occasional one-inch groups at 50 yards followed by a string of 2-3 inchers, these with the heeled boolits. The Triple 7/hollow base load might be in the 2-3 inch range at best. The Ballard has a 0.308" bore; the Winchester about a 0.313". With this cartridge, a perfect bore doesn't necessarily help a huge amount, or an imperfect bore hurt; it's kind of luck of the draw. An acquaintance has an as-new Marlin .32 rim-or-center lever action that shoots either the .32 RF or CF as well as a 39A shoots .22 RF, and a friend has a S&W revolver that will shoot very close for a couple cylinderfuls and, after cleaning, repeat the performance. In .32 RF I have several Favorites and a 44-1/2 with bores in the typical bad shape that are hopeless, and one Tipup with bore in the same shape that actually shoots halfway decent; i.e., tin-can accuracy at 50 yards.

The game must have been practically climbing on the hunters's shoulders back in the "good old days;" at least it seems to me that the .32 Long in either rim or centerfire was just about adequate for shooting small game at distances of 35 yards or less.

If you are bound and determined to use the 299155 in the .32 Long, your best bet might be to get a 0.308" liner with a 12" twist for your rifle. I had a Colt Police Positive that sprayed .32 Longs all over the map. When the 0.314" bore barrel was damaged, I replaced it with a turned down section of a 12" twist Shilen 0.308" barrel and suddenly the little revolver was actually shooting groups.

[NoZombies]

The marlin 1892 with it's .32 colt chamber is the main reason I'm thinking of even messing with the .32 colt. I can convert any of the decent single shot rimfires and rechamber them easily enough to the .32 S&W long.

But that 1892 has been calling my name for a long time, and I'd hate to chop one up (If I ever find one at a decent price)

The .32 rimfire has proved accurate enough for me when using older ammo (not the navy arms ****) and I've always suspected that the rimfire bullets, with their larger heel, probably rode the bore better than their .32 colt counterparts, with the smaller diameter heels.

The mold I have isn't the 299155, but rather a custom made Hoch mold. I have no doubt that it would still be plagued with the same problems however. I was looking for a heeled bullet mold when this one fell in my lap. I couldn't refuse, as the .32 colt is something I've been wanting to play with. No doubt that's mostly due to it's esoteric nature.

I have another old Remington that I can get cheaply enough that it's very tempting. I've never seen a #4 with a better bore, and it slugs .309" I'm just trying to decide whether I want to take on another project. I could always convert to CF, and if accuracy is unsatisfactory, then rechamber.

[uscra112]

Yes, in a Bay State falling-block. I use the 299153, bought from a guy in Wisconsin who has the mold. I think he can also make brass for you. I've also breech-seated a .32 Hornady HBWC, which works quite well. The hollow-base boolit was never reputed to be worth a darn, so I've never tried to find any. If you PM me I'll try some of yours.

(Not on my agenda to cast for this one - nothing else I own would use these boolits.)

Added: Jack Harrison is still selling the 299153 boolits on Gunbroker. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239585210

[Range Gypsy]

No Zombies,

I hope you will keep us updated on your progress with this experiment .
I have a Marlin 92 in 32 Colt . I started shooting .315 round ball till I recently got a mold for a heeled bullet .
2.5 gr Unique +.315 rd ball 43gr best group was 1 3/8" at 25 yrds Not exciting but it got it shooting .
I got a mold from Buffalo Arms .313 84gr 32 colt heeled bullet . I have cast and tumble lubed but not tested yet .
My rifle has an oversize bore at .315 ( I "beagled " the mold) But I had no luck trying to shoot factory ammo with either the heeled bullet or the hollow based one like yours . Again I think it was due to the size of the bore in this rifle
As I get layed off for the winter I hope to try some more loads for this little rifle . I would love to hear what you are using for a load in either a short or long case .

Range Gypsy

[georgewxxx]

What are you gents using for 32 Colt brass? Both short and long Colt are not interchangeable with 32 Colt New Police or 32 S&W long & short. Buffalo arms has 32 Colt short listed but none on hand, and nothing listed for the 32 long Colt at all. They have dies listed for $81. but none on had either.

[Mk42gunner]

George,

I found a lone box of Winchester .32 Short Colt on the shelf at a local gun shop (since closed). I am really regretting not buying the four boxes, (two each Long and Short) at the gun/liquor store before I retired.

Since my rifle is a single shot, one box of brass has been sufficient, although I wouldn't mind having more on hand.

So far I have been able to resist paying scalper'"s prices at gunshows for obsolete brass.

Robert

[Range Gypsy]

George,

I have paid "scalper's prices " for some of my brass , I admit , but I have collected almost 100 long and 200 short . I just put the word out and am always looking for obsolete calibers at the shows and with local dealers . I have learned to not pass up on a chance to buy , even if it is expensive as it is not likely to get more common. :(
All of my brass is factory stuff I am still looking for a source for new [B]affordable [B] 32 long colt brass

Good Luck
Range Gypsy

[georgewxxx]

A few years ago a neighbor brought over a tiny Colt that his father used to dispatch large hogs they wanted to butcher. It had a tiny broken bolt spring we finally cobbled together out of piano wire. I only had one sample on hand in my meager cartridge collection, so I promptly set out to find cases and such. About all I could come up with in quantity was 32 Colt shorts used in starter guns. Longs are a different story and using old ammo that cartridge collectors would fight over didn't seem quite right either. Nonte's cartridge conversions is mute about the long Colt, but Donnelly says you can machine them out of .223 Remington brass. Cartridges of the world really get confusing if you try and follow all the .32 long and short listed there. I guess the reason for my original question was to newby to be aware of the problems associated in making their guns go bang with that cartridge. The Colt short seems to be the best option for new clean brass if you can even find it. Firing them single shot in a old Marlin that has a center fire pin should work but cleaning the chamber to accept long brass if you ever found any wouldn't be easy. A 310 tool would be the easy way out for reloading. It is surprising that Starline or Bertram hasn't started making some.

[Bent Ramrod]

You can still find .32 Long Colt ammo at gun shows if you are patient and persistent. If you are really desperate, you can trim down .25-20 SS brass. I save my .25-20 SS that have split their necks and trim them down, making the shell long enough to duplicate the old .32 Long Rifle, which used the hollow based bullet.

[NoZombies]

I still haven't made any progress with the project, but who knows what the new year will bring... :)

[frnkeore]

I have in my cartridge collection, 40, 32 short Colts with WRA & UMC head stamps And 35, 32 S&W shorts with WRA, UMC and US headstamps. I'd be happy to sell them at what ever you guys think is a fair price + UPS shipping.

Frank

[w30wcf]

No Zombies,
Nice looking hollow based bullet. Several years ago I purchased some hollow based bullets from an internet ad. Turned out that the bullets had been made out of pretty tough alloy and would not expand to fill the grooves of my '92 Marlin.

I would suggest pure lead or no harder than 50/1 for the low pressure to expand the hollow base of the lighter bullet.

Factory cartridges
I have a few boxes of factory .32 Long Colt center fire ammo. They are factory loaded with hollow based bullets over 2.0 grs. of what appears to be Bullseye powder. Accuracy from my '92 Marlin is fair - 2 to 2 1/2" groups at 50 yards.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/32LCjpg.jpg
left 3 - old style - external lubed bullets
middle - shot cartridge
right 3 - new style - hollow base internal lubed

Heeled Bullets
I have used the Ideal 311244, 311245 and the Hornady 90 SWC. I put a heel on them in a special die. I use as fired cases so I use a heel diameter of .305-.306 so the heel is a press fit into the case.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/32LCHandloaded.jpg
l to r - Hornady 90 SWC , 311244, 311245, 311245 black powder

Just within the past week I received a mold for an inside lubed heeled bullet I designed to be used in the current length .32 Colt cases. I plan on getting some cartridges loaded this week and hopefully testing them by next weekend.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Just recently I took delivery of a 3 cavity Accurate 31-090A mold.
I designed the bullet to fit the standard .32 Long Colt case and to provide internal lubrication. It weighs 90 grs in w.w. +2% tin alloy.

The .305" heel diameter was intended to fit in as fired cases, which it does very well with a nice press fit. It also provides a nice bore ride which helps accuracy.

Here's a pic next to the Ideal 299153 which was designed to fit the earlier 32 Long Colt brass which is a bit shorter for use with outside lubed bullets.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/accurate31-090A1.jpg

Cartridges so loaded in comparison to a R-P cartridge

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/Accurate31-090Acartridge.jpg

I had a chance to get to the range and I am pleased with the initial results.
5 shot groups at 25 yards were 1" which is pretty good from my 1892 Marlin which doesn't have the greatest bore.

Over the 30 rounds fired, the single lube groove in the heel provided enough lubrication for the trip down the 24" barrel.
There was no leading.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-090A-D.png

More testing in the future........

w30wcf

[Mk42gunner]

I like the looks of that bullet, the flat nose should be good for energy transfer on small game.

How did you lube it on the heel? I am thinking a sizer die with a step in it.

Why did you go with a diameter of .312"? The .32 Short Colt that I have are .315" for both the case and the bullet. But your one inch groups sound okay, I guess your bore in your Marlin is tighter than the one on my Rolling Block.

Now I have to find some Long colt brass....

Robert

[w30wcf]

Robert,

My rifle has a .309 groove. I decided to have the mold made at .312 because a friend also has a '92 Marlin with a .311 groove. Accurate can cut a mold to any diameter one would need.

If you or anyone reading this post would like a dozen or so of the 31-090A bullet, I would be happy to send them. Just send me a PM.

Interesting that your rifle has the same larger groove diameter as the one Range Gypsy has.

To start with, I lubed in a .312" die and when I seated the bullet the excess lube scrapped off when I seated the bullet. I then simply wiped it off the neck.
This winter I plan on making a stepped lube die. I'm going to get it on the "to do" list anyway.

AMMO -
I was in a gunshop about 1 year ago and while I was wandering around I noticed he had about 7 or so boxes of R-P and Western .32 Long Colt ammunition at $27.00 a box! I bought two if them. He may still have some left.
Here is the contact information. He may or may not ship.
Bill's Gunshop Phone 814-382-1329. He is located close to Meadville, PA.

w30wcf

[Mk42gunner]

The .315" in my last post was the ammo, not the gun. I just slugged the bore again (I couldn't find the original slug) and did the muzzle and breech out of curiosity.

The bore and muzzle are .310"+, verging on .311. The mouth of ther chamber is a suprising large .325". I need to do a chamber cast on this rifle, I have a sneaking suspicion that it was originally chambered for the .32 Extra Long RF.

The rifling on my No 2 is very shallow and not in the best condition. With the Navy Arms RF .32 Long, it leads horribly. With hand lubed as cast 313445's or factory .32 Short Colt, it doesn't lead. I thought about lubing the NAvy arms with LLA, but the last time I shot any I had about 50% case splits, so I think I am going to stick with CF in it from now on.

As for the ammo, I am still trying to figure out how to heat my house this winter, so it will have to wait. I'll find some someday when I actuallly have the cash in my pocket.

Robert

[leadman]

There was a recent magazine article about a fella that loads about most of the old cartridges.
He solders a braas plug to fill the centerfire primer hole the drills the case and countersinks it for a 22 rimfire blank used for the guns that set nails in concrete etc. You just have to make sure the blank lines up with the firing pin.

I think many members here could do this job on the case. I think it would be ok to do this in such a low pressure round. Think the guys name was Hayley? out of Texas?

[Greg]

List-


I think it was last year that Molly started a thread that got me wanting a .32…

I have slowly assembled the major parts needed to build a .32 Colt’s rifle. A Hopkins & Allen falling block, a take off .30 barrel and .32 short Colt’s brass. Now I just need to budget $ for the needed machining to put it all together.

A question that has stumped me is the chamber dimensions, especially the chamber length and leade.

Could some of you do a chamber cast and post a picture with the needed dimensions, to this thread?

I had at first thought that the chamber length would be somewhat close to the length of an inside lubed .32 Long Colt's case, but after seeing the picture of 30 WCF’s Accurate 31-090A boolit seated in a case, I’m not so sure.


Thanks for your help, may God continue to Bless all ya’ll.
Merry Christmas

Greg

[w30wcf]

Greg,
Chamber dimensions on my Marlin...
.321" diameter x .88" deep then .314" throat diameter x .12" long.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

I have a number of early factory .32 Long Colt cartridges with the external lubed 90 gr bullets. Interestingly the diameters vary from .311" to .317" depending on the manufacturer.

average = .314"

In hindsight, maybe I should have had the mold made with a .314" diameter driving band. That would match the throat in my rifle........

w30wcf

[Chev. William]

I have a 1894 Series Stevens Favorite Barrel in .32 Long RF and it slugs at .299" bore and .305" groove diameters. Using a .300 Sherwood BBertram Case, I trimmed it until it just went flush with the Breech face and it measures 1.011" case length now ( the .300 Sherwood cases are listed by buffalo Arms and are a match for the .32 Long colt diameters).
Jack Harrison occasionally offers .32 Long colt sized cases worked down from .32 S&W Long on Gun Broker Auction site (I bought a lot of 20 for $18.00 and checked one with my barrel and chamber, it dropped in until it was about 1/8 inch above flush, then thumb pressure seated it flush with the breech face).
Hollywood Engineering (Sun valley, CA) Catalogs a two die set for .32 Long Colt at $60.00 for the set.
Midway lists Redding .32 Long Colt two die set as a Special Order item at about $160.00 if I recall correctly.
There is also another Forum Thread on getting .32 Long RF chambered antique firearms "Speaking" again and lists a Blog site where a man in California discusses using drilled out .32 Long colt Cases and .27 Caliber Grade 3 (Green) Powder Tool Loads, both with and without added powder, to propel Bullets out of his revolvers and multiple barrel pistols. His method centers the RF 'blank' in the CF drilled out case and the firing pins in his arms do strike the Blank's rim reliably so they should work in lever guns as intended.
A Writer contemporary with the Cartridges introduction and use wrote, in 1890, that the .32 Long RF was useful up to about 150 yards with 'fair' Target accuracy but a 'high' trajectory made it more useful at shorter ranges.

My personal opinion is the Accurate Molds 90gr bullet, possibly cut slightly smaller to match my 'small' groove diameter barrel would be a Very Good Design bullet to use, as resizing the cases would be unnecessary thereby extending case life. Loads of either BP or SP would be usable as long as everyone remembers that these arms are sometimes 'weak' and should not be 'Hot Rodded' with high pressure loads.
I would be happy to take 'w30wcf' up on his offer of some samples to try, and will PM him soon.
Best regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Robert,

My rifle has a .309 groove. I decided to have the mold made at .312 because a friend also has a '92 Marlin with a .311 groove. Accurate can cut a mold to any diameter one would need.

If you or anyone reading this post would like a dozen or so of the 31-090A bullet, I would be happy to send them. Just send me a PM.

Interesting that your rifle has the same larger groove diameter as the one Range Gypsy has.

To start with, I lubed in a .312" die and when I seated the bullet the excess lube scrapped off when I seated the bullet. I then simply wiped it off the neck.
This winter I plan on making a stepped lube die. I'm going to get it on the "to do" list anyway.

AMMO -
I was in a gunshop about 1 year ago and while I was wandering around I noticed he had about 7 or so boxes of R-P and Western .32 Long Colt ammunition at $27.00 a box! I bought two if them. He may still have some left.
Here is the contact information. He may or may not ship.
Bill's Gunshop Phone 814-382-1329. He is located close to Meadville, PA.

w30wcf

PM sent via Cast Boolits Forum messaging.
Chev. William

[NoZombies]

I had forgotten about this thread...

I now have an original 299153 mold and an original 299155 mold along with the Hoch that I had when I started the thread.

I managed to pick up 100 pieces of brand new RP .32 LC brass, but I haven't had the time to do anything with it.

I also found a CF breechblock for one of my H&A .32 rim fires. I installed it, and now have a .32 colt H&A falling block. I have some factory .32 short colt ammo I need to shoot, but haven't had the time. Maybe in the next few weeks I'll actually get some down time, and make it to the range with the little H&A.

[Chev. William]

ON 9-12-2013 I loaded ten of Jack Harrison's .32 Long Colt cases with Jacks '299153' 85gr outside lube heeled RN bullets for my Gunsmith to use in testing my refurbished 1894 Stevens favorite Rifle.

I first ran the cases through a Custom, ground to match my chamber diameter, Carbide Sizing die then trimmed them to between .912" and .914" length.

Since my chamber seems to be 1.011" long, Jack's bullets on the shortened cases should get the front drive band right at the end of the chamber.

I used CCI #450 SRM primers (what I had on hand) and 2.2gr of BULLSEYE powder behind the 85gr outside lube heeled bullet.
I used the .32 Long Colt Seat/crimp die from the two die set to seat but not crimp as the bullet driving bands would have 'fouled' the crimp shoulder in the die, I found out by crushing the first try as the crimp shoulder nicely drives the bullet on the front of the front driving band very solidly down into the case, forcing the case to crush to accommodate the length reduction.

My final over all cartridge lengths came out between 1.328" and 1.330" for the ten round loaded.

According to QuickLOAD software, this load should develop about 10,300psi Pmax and about 1070fps with MEP of 454psi, 94.85% burn with a fill of about 44.2% of net case volume. This appears to be a mild, high subsonic load (Velocity fo Sound at S.T.&P. =~1124fps) that will be relatively quiet in shooting and well below the CIP/SAMMI pressure limits of 14,504psi (Piezo CIP method).

My Loading dies were Custom grund to fit my chamber while I waited by the manufacturer, "Hollywood Engineering", of Sun Valley, CA. They charged me $82.50 for the set with the custom grinding. Their 2013 product price list says an off the shelf set of two dies for .32 Long Colt is $60.00 so I think they were Very Reasonable (a 'Thank You' plug for a 'Good Guy' manufacturer).

I have ordered, and he has received payment for, an additional 83 formed .32 Long colt Cases from Jack Harrison, in WI, and he expects to ship them about the beginning of the month.
W32wcf is in the process of casting some of the 31-090A Bullets and has said he will send me some to try out when he gets them done.

Eventually, when I can find some locally, I intend to buy a pound of Alliant 2400 powder to try in these cartridges as I have read Good Reports of its use in .32 Long Colt behind either 85gr or 90gr bullets.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Janoosh]

I'm awaiting the outcome of these experiments as I have a Stevens Tip-up in 32. The firearm chambers 32 long colt but I believe it is actually chambered for 32 long cf. The Accurate mould looks like a winner. I have a heeled boolit mould made, for 32 long colt ,by Bill Loos. And to agree, 32 sherwood does fit. Here and I thought 11mm Mauser was an expensive firearm to shoot....

[Chev. William]

I'm awaiting the outcome of these experiments as I have a Stevens Tip-up in 32. The firearm chambers 32 long colt but I believe it is actually chambered for 32 long cf. The Accurate mould looks like a winner. I have a heeled boolit mould made, for 32 long colt ,by Bill Loos. And to agree, 32 sherwood does fit. Here and I thought 11mm Mauser was an expensive firearm to shoot....

Janoosh,
While you are waiting, may I suggest you get to as close to an accurate measurement of your chamber length as you can? If you want to try my 'trick' with the .300 Sherwood cases. "Buffalo Arms" sells the BBertram ones and I believe they are listed as either available as a single case or as a box of 20, but that is from memory of the Buffalo arms listings and I did not recheck since my purchase early this year.

The .300 Sherwood is the same body diameter and rim size as the .32 Long colt but is considerably longer, at about 1.56", so trimming is needed to get the rim to go flush with the barrel face. By trimming a little at a time you can find what length your chamber is cut to accept with good accuracy.

On another point: You say you have a Stevens "Tip-up in 32".
Is that the marking on the barrel?
Or is there more to the marked caliber designation?
Have you verified it is set up for CF rounds and not RF rounds?

If it is set up to accept and fire RF rounds, then there are a wide range of case lengths, from .398 to 1.150 as specified, that it might accommodate, while CF case lengths seem to range from .650" to .916" as specified (my .32 Long RF marked chamber is cut to allow 1.011" length as found). Your chamber may also be cut to accept outside lubed bullets and may be longer than the specified case lengths, like mine is.

Another point: you say "And to agree, 32 sherwood does fit. "
Does this mean you have tried a .300 Sherwood in your chamber and it does fit with the rim flush with the end fo the barrel?
I ask as I have not seen any references to a ".32 Sherwood" caliber, the designation was coined because it did not take the same bullet diameter as the .303 British rounds and .32 would have indicated a much larger diameter bullet than would have fit. The Sherwood was designed for the "American" .30 caliber (.308 diameter) bullet size, but not so it would chamber a 'Military' 30 Carbine type round.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Janoosh]

Chev.William, first..i have shot Colt 32 long and short centerfire from this firearm. 32 sherwood diameter fits...not length..All book research I have done states Stevens Tip-up 32 centerfire. I have loaded 32 long Colt, with a heeled boolit, Lyman copy by Bill Loos, and the cartridge is too long for the chamber. Or boolit too large for the throat. I'm away at work and I'm not anywhere near my records...apologies. oh...boolit sized to 312. Factory ammo (which I bought when it was cheep), printed 4" at 50yds, offhand. The Stevens Tip-up has the origional beechs front and Stevens ladder peep tang sight in addition to a hunting sight on the barrel. The information on the Stevens came from a small paperback book on shuetzen rifles and their loadings. I can't remember the author...apologies once again. I will have to slug the bore, again, and will come back with measurements for you as soon as i return. Chamber dimensions also.
Thanks.....Janoosh

[Chev. William]

Thank you for the reply and clearing up my misunderstanding of you caliber reference. My Stevens Favorite actions were both RF type and one came with a .32 Long barrel, the other was without barrel or stock, and both were in need of TLC by my Gunsmith.
I look forward to hearing what your chamber actually measures. I found tha the Jack Harrison made .32 Long Colt cases come at about .93" long, which is too long to chamber in my .32 Barrel. I shortened them to .912" to .914" case length so the '299153' heeled bullet would go in to the bottom driving band and then would fit in my chamber assembled. This is why I suggested you use one of the Sherwood cases to find your actual chamber length.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

This morning, while I was outside with the dogs, I checked what the Black Powder (BP) capacity of my .32 Long Colt cases is.
It turns out that level full to the rim they hold about 11.7 grains of loose fffg GOEX; and if space is left to seat one of the heeled bullets without compression, they hold about 10.7 grains of loose fffg BP.

I would surmise that around 11.0 grains would fit with some compression, and perhaps slightly more with heavy compression.

Reportedly, the .32 Long RF originally had 18 grains of BP and the .32 Long Colt CF had 12 grains of BP. I guess the RF round gets its extra capacity from not having a separate primer and the CF round may have been a "Balloon Case" design.

Something to think about for the future.

On another size: I also tried finding out what a .25ACP case holds.
I found that the Magtech .25ACP, primed, case holds 5.0 grains loose, not compressed, fffg GOEX Black Powder (BP) level with the mouth rim.
It seems to hold 4.0 grains loose, not compressed with enough room to set a heeled bullet.

As far as I know, the .25ACP never was commercially loaded with BP as it was introduced for the Colt pocket Automatic after the development of Smokeless powders.

More things to ponder.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[NoZombies]

Chev. As far as I know, the .25 ACP was never commercially loaded with black. As you noted, it was brought out as a cartridge for autoloaders. Thanks for checking the case volume of the rounds in question. I don't think I have any .32 LRF left, but I think I have some fired cases I couldn't bring myself to throwing in the scrap bucket. I'll dig them out sometime and check the volume.

I pulled my little .32 colt single shot rifle out of the back of the safe the other day, and pulled out the box of factory .32 short colt ammo. Now I just need to find some time to get to the range (and run a few errands, but that's another story) and I'll test it out.

If I get the chance, I'll try to get some 32 LC loaded up before that range trip, but it might end up being just the .32 SC if I can't find the time.

[Chev. William]

Jack Harrison occasionally auctions, on the Gun Broker site, some .32 Long Colt Formed Brass he resizes from .32 S&W Long Brass. He also has the occasional auctions batches of "299153" .32 RN 86gr outside lubed Heeled bullets to fit.
So at the moment Brass is somewhat available and bullets are purchasable if you do no twish to go through the casting process for them.

[Chev. William]

Today my Gunsmith and I tried some of my .912" to .914" long .32 Long Colt cases loaded with a "299153" and found they would not go into my chamber.
Measured the Bullet Driving Band diameter and found it to be .318" to .319" Which explains why the would not go into my .316" to .317" Diameter Chamber.
Then I ran the loaded cartridges through my .32 Long Colt sizing die, now they would enter the chamber but stop short of seating flush with the Barrel Breech Face.
The measured difference was between .080" and .088" over 8 round tried.
I then ran them through my .32 Long colt crimp die and the bullet driving bands now measure about .298" which is less than the slugged bore diameter of .299". The cartridges now go in the chamber flush with the Barrel Breech Face.
I will be shortening some of my cases to between .810" to .818" to allow use of "299153" bullets in my chamber.
I will probably go through the same process when I get some "31-090A" bullets to try.

I obviously miss measured the bullet driving band length originally when I calculated the .912"-.914" case length to fit "299153" bullet to my Chamber length.

I think that this exercise in 'Practical load development' is a useful learning experience for me.
Not having the actual chamber near to hand when doing trial loads is not a good Idea.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[NoZombies]

Chev, I'm not sure I follow, are you saying that you smashed the bullets down to .298" in order to get them to chamber?

I've got both heel base and hollow based molds for the .32 colt that I need to wring out. I've loaded a few test rounds with the hollow based bullets in the long brass, and they chambered beautifully. But they should, considering the bullets are bore diameter instead of groove diameter.

When you get to shooting some, keep us posted!

[Chev. William]

Chev, I'm not sure I follow, are you saying that you smashed the bullets down to .298" in order to get them to chamber?

This happened for ten Cartridges of .32 Long Colt with .912" to .914" case length and loaded with "299153" bullets. They turned out too large in diameter and too long, as loaded, to fit my Chamber.
First, run complete cartridges through the .32 LC Sizer Die got them to go into my chamber.
Second, run through the Crimper die 'smeared' off the tops of the Drive bands so they would go fully into my chamber, it turns out that I calculated the wrong length from base to top of driving bands, so bringing the bullets down to .298" allowed them to pass into the rifling leade.
These ten cartridges were assembled after I had turned over my barrel to my Gunsmith so I could not double check them before taking them to my Gunsmith's shop.


I've got both heel base and hollow based molds for the .32 colt that I need to wring out. I've loaded a few test rounds with the hollow based bullets in the long brass, and they chambered beautifully. But they should, considering the bullets are bore diameter instead of groove diameter.

When you get to shooting some, keep us posted!

My Gunsmith wil be the first to fire my Rifle(s) using my test loads, as there are no Readily available .32 Long Colt Commercial rounds nor any .25 Stevens CF Commercial rounds available as new stock, only .32 Long Colt Collectible Cartridges at far more than I can afford but NO One is commercially loading the ".25 Stevens in CF". this is part of the "FUN" of this project.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The Saga continues:
Over time I have purchased, through auctions, several used Stevens Barrels to use with my Actions, and am currently waiting out a purchase of a 1915 series Action.
One barrel is now identified as a Model 44 in 22LR with pitted bore but visible rifling full length.
A second one is also identified as a Model 44 but its marked caliber and its chamber Do Not Match.
it has the Bore and Groove diameters of a 25-20 Stevens CF but the chamber matches the dimensions of a 25Stevens Long RF Cartridge.
A third one just arrived today and is Obviously a cut down Model 44 barrel originally in 25-20 Steven CF. there is only about 1/2 inch of the chamber left on the barrel and someone started, but did not finish, re-machining the 'spigot' to Model 44 but so far closer to the muzzle that they turned off the last "S" of Stevens name in the original stampings.
This last one may be a candidate for conversion to a 'Bull barrel' for my Stevens Favorite actions as it is so cut up it could not be used on a model 44 action with pride.
IF I do use it, I would either need to get some Heeled, inside lube, bullets with a driving band about .258" and a heel diameter of about .251" at about 67 Grains or so to fit the barrel.
"257-10-67" or "257-11-67" or even "25-12-67" in CF anyone?

Pondering 'what if..." questions for the night,
Best Regards,
Chev. Wiliam

[Chev. William]

Today I received in the mail several things: From W30wcf Sample bullets and balls; from other Vendors a 30 Carbine New Lee "Factory Collet Factory Crimp die, and a pair of push through bullet sizing dies.

I tried an experiment:
I Set up the crimp die in my Press so it was compressed all the way to closing the 'slots' in the collet, plus a little 'overpressure'. Then used a CBC/Magtech .25ACP empty (.608" case length) as a spacer under one of Jack Harrison's reformed .32 S&W Long cases and ran it into the Crimper die to see what would happen.

The die squeezed the case down to between .308" and .310" in a four lobed pattern, possibly due to the collette being ground to work with a 30 Carbine round and NOT to be closed until it "Two Blocked". I think these minimum crimp dimensions would work for the .32 Long Colt if the 'spacer' is set up to hold the case mouth at the point of maximum squeeze. For the spacer I used, it seems to be about .765" to .770" up from the base of the .32 Long cartridge.

W30wcf: Your PM mail box is full, I could not send the following answers to you as a PM.
"I AM using cut down and reformed .22 Hornet brass for my experimental .25 Stevens / lengthened .25ACP cases.
I have to machine the rims dimensions after reforming.

Are you aware there IS a .25 Hornet listed with dimensions and loads and a little history on it, on the "Ammoguide Interactive" web site? It seems several other people liked that idea, but it is too high a pressure cartridge for me to contemplate for my 1894 Stevens favorite actions.

I am going to post the report of the Crimp Die Experiment on the Forum Thread for others to review and possibly use.

Thank you Very Much for the sample bullets and balls, Now I wait for an action to be completed, which now looks like sometime in December.

Best Regards,
Chev. William"

[Chev. William]

I received the Modified Collet 'Factory Crimp Die' for .32 Colt from "Old West Bullet Moulds", both the short and the long are covered as it is adjustable. The shell holder has a Threaded stem that is held at adjustment by a set screw. the 'kit' came in a molded box along with the Allen wrench to do the adjustments with and three different sample bullets for me to review.

All in All it looks very nicely made and is a Very Good application of ingenuity to overcome a lack of Lee's producing it in the first place,
The Crimp Die itself appears to be of Lee's manufacturer.

I will Recommend this die modification to any who wish to crimp .32 Colt cartridges.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I now have two Ebay purchase barrels for the 1894 series Stevens Favorite, a 22 long Rifle, and a 32 Long. Both are in dire need of cleaning with bores that look like they are either nearly shot out or heavily lead fouled as the rifling is barely visible. The outsides of both are covered in Dark Brown Rust so a thourogh cleaning will be necessary to find out what I can do with them. The 32 Long barrel came with both Front and Rear fixed sights and a usable foreend AND it has the knurled nut head space adjustment feature on it.

AS I understand it, this adjustment feature was only employed for a short time in the production run of the 1984 series.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Cleaned the bores on the two barrels and they shined up but the rifling looks very thin and they do have pits along their lengths. I still need to slug the bores to find out just what the remaining dimensions are.

I ordered Forster Trimmer Custom pilots to fit both the .25 Stevens and the .32 Long Colt case mouths. The Customer Service person did not recognize the two calibers and after looking in their catalog decided I needed Custom ground ones.

Oh Well, I guess this is just a normal 'glitch' in tooling up to fire 'obsolete' cartridges.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Take a Look at the Gun Broker site: there is an auction going on for some loaded .32LC rounds.
Auction # 371703597

I ran a search for ".32 Long Colt" to find it today.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I have been 'cleaning' dies from Hollywood Engineering that were on charred wood shelves and are covered with soot, condensed Smoke and some rust all week. Friday morning after I unloaded my Frankford Vibratory Tumbler of the overnight batch, it would not restart. It seem I have worn out this one and will need to buy another.

Any Suggestions for a reliable low cost one?

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

While waiting for a new Tumbler I 'puttered' with reforming .32 S&W Long Brass into .32 Long Colt cases. I tried forming them using a Lee Push thru bullet Die in .323" for the first reduction and found it left fine 'scratches' on the Brass and the case was not formed all the way to the base. So today I turned off some of the die bottom, reducing the 'gather cone' from about .450" mouth diameter to about .390" diameter. this shortened the die some but it was long any way. I also used a Dremel tool to smooth the transition between mouth taper to main bore. A test Case went through the die with noticeably less 'scratching' but still some showed up so more 'polishing' of the transition edge is needed.
The length of the die now allows a case to get flush with the end of the die with the rim just fitting in the mouth taper.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I have been 'cleaning' dies from Hollywood Engineering that were on charred wood shelves and are covered with soot, condensed Smoke and some rust all week. Friday morning after I unloaded my Frankford Vibratory Tumbler of the overnight batch, it would not restart. It seem I have worn out this one and will need to buy another.

Any Suggestions for a reliable low cost one?

Best Regards,
Chev. William

No suggestions for a more suitable Tumbler so I ordered, and have received, a replacement FrankFord Vibratory Tumbler. It is set up and is running a load of Hollywood dies to clean off the smoke and roofing materials adherent to them. Seems to take about 8 to 12 hours of tumbling to get all the adherent matter off, then I run a Bore brush into the internal threads and chamber cut to remove the foreign material from the bores. It seems that a 20 Gauge Shotgun Brush fits the internal threaded portion quite nicely. So far I have cleaned dies in a range from .25ACP to 300 Newton and some even larger that have already gone back to Joe at Hollywood Engineering for further wire brushing of the exteriors. I do not have a handy wire brush on a motor here at home, I would need to go to a friend's shop to do the wire brushing myself.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Continued wiht Tumbling the Hollywood 'smoked' dies the last couple of weeks, but have not stayed outside too long as the temps are uncomfortable to be working out side on a north facing patio.

I have purchased another .32 Long RF barrel via Ebay. It is one of the 'middle 1894 production with the knurled ring for head space adjustment. I have also partially disassembled the 1915 action I purchased and find that it is fitted with a larger than general production Breech Block in .22RF and larger than normal screws. A normal production 1915 Breech Bolt does NOT fit the screws and it is also smaller in general contour and dimensions.
It is looking like I bought a modified 1915 Action without either the seller nor I being aware of it. Now I wonder what the metals used are.
I have also bought a .22RF breech Block-Link-Lever set for a 1915 action and a 1894 lever plunger and spring with the intention to modify the 1915 lever to take the 1894 plunger and spring so the lever will be spring loaded in the closed position. This may require modifing the link to get the 'cam' surfaces correct.
I also have a spare Extractor-ejector coming to use as a spare.
At a friends shop I machined a Cold Rolled sleeve to locate a Transfer punch in the center of the barrel socket on the 1915 action this is to allow center marking the breech block to position the new CF firing pin. It worked just as planned and now is with the 1894 actions at my gunsmiths for use in marking their breech blocks similarly.
Progress is slow but steady on my Projects.
Something else to be Thankful for this Season.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

An update on my projects:
The 1894 actions are still with my Gunsmith, and now I am hoping he will get caught up and work on at least one sometime this month. I am not 'pressing ' him as these are 'low budget back burner' jobs to keep the costs down.
I now have a 1915 action that a previous owner has done some upgrading to; it has larger than normal screws for the Breech Block (BB) Pivot, the Lever pivot screw, and a wider than normal BB.
It came 'in the white after reportedly being polished with 320 grit and looks very nice. It's Barrel Socket measures about .665" diameter at both ends, and the BB slot measures .605" wide.
I have been buying used BB and Extractors as I can to get spares for my experiments so I am getting 'well set' for the CF conversions.

Barrels have been coming up in auctions occasionally and I have bought several looking for that 'Keeper' one like th e.25 Stevens one I won a few months ago.
At Christmas I won a 'Santa's Present" Auction (NO one else bid and it closed Christmas Day) for a Shelin Match Grade Stainless Steel .308 Caliber Barrel Blank 28-1/8" long by 1-1/4" diameter in 1 in 8" Twist. It came and I am very pleased as it slugged .301" bore/.308" Groove diameters and was very even and tight driving the slug through it.
I also have a pair of Stevens 1894 Barrels in .32 Long Caliber that have the Knurled Ring Head space adjustment design. both of these are 'Brown Patina' and have Rifling full length from chamber to muzzle with some 'pitting' evident in the bores.
Another purchase is a Winchester 1885 'Low Wall' used 26" Tapered Octagon barrel in .32 Short Caliber that is loose for the last 18" of the bore toward the muzzle and slugs .302" bore/.307" groove diameters.
I have competed about 15 ea 1lb used Bread Baking trays full of Cleaned Dies and some tools so far for Joe Mueller of Hollywood Engineering with many more trays to go. He has been working steadily to get his burned shop cleaned up so he can get an OK to begin Reconstruction, but his being over 80 years old, it is going 'slow but steady'. His wife and daughter are leaning toward selling out at a loss and buying a house somewhere; but I think that would cause Joe's early death from inactivity.

Tooling is now in hand for sizing bullets and cases for both .25 Stevens/Lengthened .25ACP and .32 Long/.32 Long Colt.
I have Purchased, and sent to "Matt's Bullets", an Accurate Mold 5 cavity Mold in "311090A" design.
Matt has done trial casting with it and reports it drops bullets with .312" diameter Driving band and .303" diameter Heel. Matt has my permission to use this mold to cast and Commercially sell the bullets to others. so I now have sources for two 90 grain bullets, the "311090A" and the "Ideal 299153" designs.
I am still looking for a source for .251" to .255" diameter 67 grain Bullets for use in my .25 Stevens action/barrel combinations. "Carolina Cast Bullets" commercially casts the "Ranch Dog TL256-50 grain RFN design" so that is an alternative to be used.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

"Matts Bullets" sent me samples of cast bullets from my Accurate Mold "311090A" 5 cavity mold that he measured as .312" driving band and .303" heel diameter as cast. Upon receipt I measured them with my Dial caliper and got .310" Driving band and .302" Heel Diameters, probably a difference in the measuring tools used.
Matt will be casting and then sending me 500 bullets, 400 pre-lubed and 100 bare fo rlater hand lubing by me or for samples to send to others.

My two 1894 Stevens .32 long barrels purchased late last year differ in thier chamber dimensions.
One measures .320" diameter, the other measures .348" diameter.
The .320" diameter is about correct for .32 Long Colt.
The .348" diameter is oversize for even .32 S&W Long and I will probably have a Chamber 'bushing' fitted and cut for .32 Long Colt.
I also checked the Winchester 1885 Low Wall barrel and it's chamber measures .322" diameter by .695" deep, marked ".32 Short". This barrel slugs at .302" Bore/.307 Groove diameters with a 'Loose' bore the last third of its length. I am thinking of cutting the chamber deeper to take .32 Long and turning the Tenon and Breech end to fit a Stevens Favorite action. This would yield a Tapered Octagon barrel of about 25-1/2" to 25-3/4" long. If it does not shoot accurately then I will think about fitting a liner to restore its bore to accurate condition, finished Caliber to be determined at a later date.

I have received two more Extractor/ejector units for the 1915 action, one was sold as .32 LR and the other as .22WRF. The .32 one is stamped "32" and measures 1.328" from C/L of pivot hole to tip of extractor. the .22WRF one measures 1.345" pivot hole C/L to extractor tip. I have 4 Extractors on order from "Wisners" and 3 'broken' Extractor/ejectors coming from an Ebay purchase. so I may be able to work up the required one to fit both my 1894 and the 1915 actions.
The"Wisner's" ones are all made as .22LR extractors and need to be 'trimmed' for use with any other calibers. I will not know the original 'caliber' of the Ebay ones until after receiving them.
"Wisners" said that it would be a few months before they make some combination Extractor/Ejector parts for the Stevens Actions.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The order of 100 ea R-P 32 Long Colt Brass came today along with my order fo four "Wisner's" Stevens favorite Extractors.
I will be fitting the extractors to my Action(s) in the near future, I have already drilled out the pivot screw hole in one new extractor to fit my 1915 upgraded action (.231" diameter), then tried it in the action.
It definitely will require 'fitting' as it nearly reaches to the Barrel/Breech block Face Center Line, completely hiding the firing pin Tip/hole.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

An update on my Projects:
The two Favorite actions with my gunsmith are slowly progressing as his time permits. one is nearly complete enough to test fire and the other one is in need of Lathe time to make a few pivots.

I have purchased over time three other Favorite Receivers in various states of repair.

I also purchased two model 44 receivers to add to the list of projects along with a 'marksman' receiver with missing parts.

Time this month has been spent Expanding .22 Hornet cases in preparation to Size them to .25ACP diameters then trim them to lengths for use in planned experiments. One set were purchased used with unknown history and five of them have split during Expansion. Add: and one more separated Base from body in the forming die so far.

I do have 100 trimmed to 1.125" waiting for lathe time to trim the Displaced roll of Brass from the top of the rims.
After that they will need some turning of rim diameter and thinning of the rims from .063" to .050" to better match end use.

Some of these will be drilled and reamed to accept a .22 Blank in lieu of CF Primer for RF testing.

Best Regards,
Chev, William

[Alferd Packer]

Thanks for the update! Chev.W.

[Chev. William]

This afternoon and evening I got a "Wild Idea" and trimmed a few .32 Long Colt cases to .about 408", the limit I can cut in my Lyman Case Trimmer as the pilot tip bottoms in the case against the Web. I will need shorten the pilot by about the .008" to .010" so I can final trim the cases to .398" to .400" to equal the length of a Obsolete .32 Extra Short (RF) case.

Cause of this "exercise" is that I ran some Calculations in QL about the .32 Extra Short as a CF cartridge using a 90 grain Heeled Bullet (Accurate Mold 31-090A) of about .302" diameter Heel and .312" driving Band diameters. the design uses a .220" long heel and has about a .100" long driving band.

CIP .32 Long and Short Colt pressure limit is 14,504psi(Piezo) so that is what I used for the calculations.

With a Barrel length of 24" and Titegroup Powder a 'maximum' charge of 0.9 grains under the 90 grain bullet yielded a CALCULATED maximum Pmax of 14,455psi, 694fps MV, 82.3% fill, 94.4% burn, 101psi MEP and 96ft-lbs ME. I believe this is adequate for a relatively quiet Short Range Target, varmint, or plinking Round.

A CALCULATED 'starting' charge of 0.81 Grains of Titegroup yields CALCULATED Pmax of 11,274psi, 638fps MV, 73.8% fill, 91% burn, 91psi MEP, and 81ft-lbs ME.

Case preparation will need to include neck reaming to make clearance for the bullet Heel due to case inside wall taper near the Web.

This case could be modified to accept a .22 'Acorn' Blank to allow firing as a 'rimfire' adapter.
Blanks longer than the 'acorn' type may not allow a bullet to be seated in the case.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Mk42gunner]

Too bad you don't have one of the Remington magazine pistols that round was designed for. Just guessing but I think an arrow would almost be faster than a bullet from one of their very short barrels.

Robert

[Chev. William]

I do not know but I heard someone on TV state an arrow has around 200fps at he Bow Release, but do not remember the type or 'pull' of the Bow referred to.
Noting that a .25ACP seems to gain around 200fps over a 2" barrel when fired from a 18" barrel I would guess a MV of around 400 to 500fps fo rthe Extra short out of a Derringer of 2" barrel length. A Revolver would yield less as there would be loss of pressure at he Cylinder barrel Gap.
Beat Regards,
Chev. William