Have to clear up something

[44man]

Things get too personal and it should never be. I do ask for proof a lot but it is only the load or what the gun does. NEVER how a man shoots, I could care less. If you shoot the whole paper with a load but can reduce that with trying something else, that is good.
Keep the shooter against shooter out of here 100%.
Work on load against load, boolit against boolit, etc.
Gun against gun gets personal but facts must be presented and it is nothing about the shooter at all. Gun choice is personal but is a part of what it can do, not the man behind it so it is as important as load work.
All the information on this site has never, ever been shooter against shooter and is why it is the best. Continue to compare load against load, boolit against boolit, powder against powder and yes, gun against gun. Do not let your gun choice fog your eyes or make you angry. We can disagree all the time, but respect each other, we are still the best site ever.

[btroj]

Things get too personal and it should never be. I do ask for proof a lot but it is only the load or what the gun does. NEVER how a man shoots, I could care less. If you shoot the whole paper with a load but can reduce that with trying something else, that is good.
Keep the shooter against shooter out of here 100%.
Work on load against load, boolit against boolit, etc.
Gun against gun gets personal but facts must be presented and it is nothing about the shooter at all. Gun choice is personal but is a part of what it can do, not the man behind it so it is as important as load work.
All the information on this site has never, ever been shooter against shooter and is why it is the best. Continue to compare load against load, boolit against boolit, powder against powder and yes, gun against gun. Do not let your gun choice fog your eyes or make you angry. We can disagree all the time, but respect each other, we are still the best site ever.

Exactly.

[theperfessor]

Unless a post has a direct personal attack I try to filter out the emotion and try to focus on the content - i.e. how does a load perform, what is the intended purpose of a load, what loading procedures are used, which powder works best, etc.

Some people just express themselves in ways that can provoke a negative response from other folks, its just the way things are. I've learned that when I focus on the information and filter out the emotion and take into account the one-dimensional nature of the printed word I learn a lot and don't get p****d off as easily.

[kelbro]

Unless a post has a direct personal attack I try to filter out the emotion and try to focus on the content - i.e. how does a load perform, what is the intended purpose of a load, what loading procedures are used, which powder works best, etc.

Some people just express themselves in ways that can provoke a negative response from other folks, its just the way things are. I've learned that when I focus on the information and filter out the emotion and take into account the one-dimensional nature of the printed word I learn a lot and don't get p****d off as easily.

Exactly! I sometimes have a difficult time trying to convey my thoughts into a 'message box'.

We all spend a lot of money on our hobby and want to think that our firearms are the best (same as our kids) but casting/loading/shooting is a journey, not a destination. I enjoy all of it. The good days, learn something from the bad days, and even tolerate the days when I get to the range and realize that the ammo that I just spent two hours loading is sitting back home at the bench.

What I have a hard time dealing with is that guy on the bench next to me that shoots 3", 25 yd. groups with his 2" snubby Taurus.

[Lloyd Smale]

geezs all the apologys today. Did i mistakenly log on to womens home jorunal?? Man up guys. Nobody agrees with everything posted here. Heck theres only a few on here that are right all the time like me ;) You need to be able to argue today and be friends at the same time and have forgoten it by tommarow. Shouldnt have to appologize for posting if it was the way you feel. this is just gun **** and in the big picture isnt all that important. Some think its like someone is badmouthing your kid or wife.

[Char-Gar]

Unless you can find guns that shoot themselves, the man vs. man will always be a factor. Folks don't have to get nasty about it though.

[felix]

Bismark versus the Hood was not fair; Yamato versus the Bismark might have been fair; but, the Missouri against either Yamato or Bismark would prolly be sailor dependent and the fairest contest of all. ... felix

[theperfessor]

As the sig line of one of our members says, if you're in a fair fight your tactics suck.

[white eagle]

geezs all the apologys today. Did i mistakenly log on to womens home jorunal?? Man up guys. Nobody agrees with everything posted here. Heck theres only a few on here that are right all the time like me ;) You need to be able to argue today and be friends at the same time and have forgoten it by tommarow. Shouldnt have to appologize for posting if it was the way you feel. this is just gun **** and in the big picture isnt all that important. Some think its like someone is badmouthing your kid or wife.

Amen brother
get over it and move on

[missionary5155]

Hey Felix.. that would have been an interesting match up.. But me thinks the radar ranged computer ballistics on the Iowa Class might have given them that over the horizon edge. I think both the Bismark & the Yamato were optical range finding. From what I understand at the Battle of Samar Straight the japs did some lousy shooting at the 6 "Jeep" carriers and only sunk the 2 when all six were easy pickings. But I also give those DD & DE men a tip of my hat for the fine one way topedo & 5" gun runs they did. Plus the swarms of flyers that came running.. But it would have been an interesting duel ...
I think Admiral Oldendorf had the last big ship engagement in WW" with his bombardment squadrons (Pearl Harbor Battleships).
Mike in Peru

[Guesser]

Commodore Burke and DESRON 23 "Little Beavers" on point!!!!!!!!

The kind of stuff that happens on the web never seems to happen on the street if the same people are involved. As one of the people that comments here, I would walk away if it were on the street.
Funny how that plays out; huh?

[felix]

Yep, the AA guns were inaccurate on the Japanese ship, and that really hurt. They tried to compensate by having a sheer number of them instead, especially after Midway. Don't know about the others. But, all BB ships were fitted for surface action rather than for land acquisition. That changed big time for the Iowa class even after WWII by fitting them with complete computer control for engagement. I was told at the Fort Leavenworth Command College, where I was engaged in war gaming that these ships could hit a football field guaranteed at 26 miles with one volley. That's an inch and a half accuracy. ... felix

[nanuk]

there are always people on forums who have personal beefs of some sort with each other. it doesn't matter why, all that matters is it still exists.

you can tell these folks by the tone, and always the "personal" nature of their response.

I tend to ignor the personal attacks if I can, and find the good info within.

Like someone, Waksupi?? posted on another thread that had degraded to several personal attacks, there is VERY GOOD INFORMATION available to all of us. Those on this site that choose to share their knowledge are generous and I appreciate it.

that is how the rest of us learn.

Make it about the Message, NOT the Messenger!

[462]

For those who tend to be argumentative, pompus, and resort to personal attacks, I've found the Ignore List to be very useful.

[tek4260]

I for one don't mind the arguments. There is a ton of knowledge here and when someone with years of experience goes toe to toe with another experienced member, you better sit up and read and learn. I try to noodle out both opinions and learn something from it.

Experienced discussion is what makes this site great. As long as the members can keep from name calling and personal attacks, let the debate rage on because I'll learn something! :):)

[leftiye]

I like what tech said. When I first came here, (and where I was raised) I was one who thought argument was not a bad thing. Friends argue, and are friends tomorrow (I thought). - Sometimes, maybe. Many people are not able to withstand the lack of confirmation in that (they are looking for people to support them, or praise them - good luck eh?), and become hurt or insulted maybe. This is usually where the problem begins, as when they respond they respond angrily. And when two people exchange angrily, it isn't long before they become abusive. So let's "discuss" things (Thas what I thought "argue a point" meant), and refrain from meanings or double meanings that hurt the sister's feelings (good example?), so that the subject can get explored, and the info transmitted.

[Changeling]

Unfortunately I know and believe what has been said and more! I really don't think are youth has been properly introduced into the shooting sport so if necessary that experience can be caried forward into the field of battle! If it comes to that it will be a slaughter!!!!!

To many parents wish to believe that if they keep ther children allienated from firearms then every thing will be Rose'y for little Joe, Mark, or whoever! STOP and THINK, do you want your child pulled into a war without any knowledge of firearms or how to protect himself and his friends?
You better think long and hard about what I've said!

[Jack Stanley]

Bismark versus the Hood was not fair; Yamato versus the Bismark might have been fair; but, the Missouri against either Yamato or Bismark would prolly be sailor dependent and the fairest contest of all. ... felix

I may have my history wrong on this and I don't remember the name of the Japanese ship . I read a book about the battleship USS Washington sinking a Jap battleship of equal size and firepower . Apparently they came out of the fog and had the drop on them and let 'em have it untill the japs filled up with water and sank .

It is incredible what the Iowa class can do at range isn't it ? :shock:

Jack

[Multigunner]

I may have my history wrong on this and I don't remember the name of the Japanese ship . I read a book about the battleship USS Washington sinking a Jap battleship of equal size and firepower . Apparently they came out of the fog and had the drop on them and let 'em have it untill the japs filled up with water and sank .

It is incredible what the Iowa class can do at range isn't it ? :shock:

Jack

A Japanese veteran speaking on a dicumentary told how his ship was running without lights. He thought he heard something and risked turning on a small light.
The light reveal the muzzles of a U S Cruiser's main guns just halting as they leveled at lowest elevation, a split second later he came to in the water with the blazing wreckage of his ship sinking some distance away. The muzzle blast had thrown him far from the vessel before the point blank broadside demolished his vessel. I think this happened at "Iron Bottom Sound".

[nicholst55]

For those who tend to be argumentative, pompus, and resort to personal attacks, I've found the Ignore List to be very useful.

+1; I have resorted to adding members twice, to date.