First AR-15 Build

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

20" DPMS Bull Barrel, Weaver 20 MOA bases, free float handguard, DPMS lower, Model 1 upper, DPMS lower parts kit, Delton bolt and bolt carrier, Model 1 A2 buttstock.

Should be a cheap shooter.

Took under 2 hours from parts to bore sighted. FUN!!!!!!

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh119/kage1339/ar.jpg

[wellfedirishman]

That looks great. What gunsmithing tools/fixtures did you need to assemble it?

I have been considering getting the tools required for an AR build so I can modify my own uppers. I have assembled several lowers before, that is straightforward.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Only tools used was a Delton multi tool...it is used for torquing the barrel nut down...and also has a buttstock wrench on it. It was $30. There is also a cut-out in it for a torch wrench to slip in. I used it to get the required 45 ft lbs of torque on the barrel nut. From there you just have to tweak it so the gas tube fits through the barrel nut and upper FREELY. This part is important and requires patience. Must get the hole in the barrel nut perfectly aligned with the hole in the upper.

Other than the multi tool and torque wrench, I used a regular punch and ball peen hammer for all the pins.

Almost forgot...also had an upper reciever vise block. Got it from Midway and it is not the clamshell kind, it is the white delrin block that uses 2 pins to secure it to the block...and then you clamp the block in the vise. Worked very well.

It was so easy a caveman could do it!


Good luck!

[oltimer2]

You got to be careful with Black Rifle Disease! It will creep in to your wallet and just leave you with a smile. Looks nice ,enjoy the shooting. Dan

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Yes, yes...BRD...I have heard of this [smilie=l:

I think I showed my first symptoms when I ordered 2 lower recievers instead of just one...knowing that another black rifle is just around the corner.

[klcarroll]

I know "BRD" well!!!

....But I suspect that a few appropriate Group Buys could help alleviate the worst symptom!! (…..Chronically Empty Wallet, or “CEW” for short!)


Kent

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

If you notice the 2 quarters on the floor in the lower left corner of picture...that is what is left of my savings... :p

[klcarroll]

If you notice the 2 quarters on the floor in the lower left corner of picture...that is what is left of my savings... :p


I hear THAT!!

.....I want to do my my next build in either 45ACP or 40S&W; ....but I am finding the pistol caliber stuff even more pricey than the 5.56 parts! (...Anyone know of a source for reasonably priced pistol caliber barrels and bolts??)

Kent

[GabbyM]

Built one with a 20 inch bull barrel last year. Came in a few ounces under ten pounds naked. I used the smooth side heavy upper. Does what I was looking for. Very low muzzle climb allows you to see the bullet strike in the scope view. Seams like the gun twist more than it climbs. Don’t know if that’s from the round fore end on the bags or the 1:9” twist rate. Some of it is probably perceived since it has such low climb and rear push you can feel the twist.

Only disappointment I have is the way the case necks get smashed 1/3 shut as they strike the inside of the receiver in front of the ejection port. Again this is the DPMS heavy smooth side with no port cover or forward assist. Been meaning to get over on AR-15 com and ask about that. Maybe some buba dermal moto tool work?

[Combat Diver]

Congrats and nice rifle. I built my last AR as a M4rgy as a retirement gift to myself since the Army won't let you take theirs.

CD

[madsenshooter]

Cute as could be. I wish I'd have had the foresight to have had my 6x45 made with a carbine length gas tube for cast boolit shooting though. I hate that AR angle grip, had to replace that on mine, just didn't fit me.

[Moonie]

so far middle son and I have 2 uppers (5.56 and 6.8) and are a complete lower away from 2 rifles. Then he gets the 5.56 and I get the 6.8, then start building the 5.56 for mine, and 300BLK, and....OMG i've got BRD...

[klcarroll]

so far middle son and I have 2 uppers (5.56 and 6.8) and are a complete lower away from 2 rifles. Then he gets the 5.56 and I get the 6.8, then start building the 5.56 for mine, and 300BLK, and....OMG i've got BRD...


......It's so sad! ......They're dropping like flies!:kidding::kidding:


Kent

[Swede44mag]

Looks like mine minus the upper and the stock.
I put a RR 2 stage trigger in the DPMS lower.
I want the DPMS fluted 24" upper but no funds at this time.

[redneckdan]

I highly recommend white oak armament barrels. they are a known choice for service rifle builds. I did up a pseudo SDM-R on one of their 20" varmint barrels. Shot like a house afire. Probably wouldn't have sold it if I lived out west. After obliterating every red squirrel I could find within 20 miles of town I sold it for what I hand into it.

[nicholst55]

20" DPMS Bull Barrel, Weaver 20 MOA bases, free float handguard, DPMS lower, Model 1 upper, DPMS lower parts kit, Delton bolt and bolt carrier, Model 1 A2 buttstock.

Should be a cheap shooter.

Took under 2 hours from parts to bore sighted. FUN!!!!!!

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh119/kage1339/ar.jpg

Just curious; what ranges are you planning to shoot at? Just wondering why you felt the need for the 20 MOA base.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

1,000 yards, 1200 yards... I dunno. I would much rather have them and not need them than need them and not have them. I like to PUSH my rifle loads to the extreme.

I will most likely be shooting somewhere in the range of 6-700 yards. Yes I know that my scope has enough elevation adjustment for it. For $52 bucks I wanted it.

Working up loads with Hornady 68 grn HPBT match bullets. Haven't chrono'd anything yet so haven't quite figured out when they go subsonic. Probably around 900-1k yds. It should be interesting.

[RU shooter]

For a good 600 yd load take a look at the 75-80 gr. Amax on top a healthy dose of Reloader 15.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Thanks for the load recommendation, but my 9 twist barrel probably won't stabilize that heavy of a bullet. Might be worth a try. Thanks!

[RU shooter]

Thanks for the load recommendation, but my 9 twist barrel probably won't stabilize that heavy of a bullet. Might be worth a try. Thanks! I just assumed it was a 1:8 , Your right probably no good for the Amax, The 75/77 gr maybe usable though but the Amax is a good bit longer .

[milprileb]

How did you get head space right?

[gew98]

How did you get head space right?

Every AR barrel I have bought for a build has had the locking lug collar already installed , so headspace is not an issue unless you have a flat out naked barrel with no locking lug collar installed from the factory.

[milprileb]

Sir, your bolt is a active part of head spacing so do you check with a gauge or what? You bought your barrel from X and bolt from Y: that does not mean X&Y head space correctly.

Thanks for suffering my questions in advance.

[khamill2000]

You got to be careful with Black Rifle Disease! It will creep in to your wallet and just leave you with a smile. Looks nice ,enjoy the shooting. Dan

Ain't that the truth! I never had any interest in them until a buddy asked me if I was interested in his 450 Bushmaster. Now, less than 6 months later, I have 4 black rifles and am looking to build a pink one for the Mrs.

[milprileb]

Sure is quiet on that head space question. We aren't just slapping
parts together with a hope and promise its all okay ? Thats not a
build, thats a car wreck.

Is anyone checking head space in their builds and if its off, how are you
correcting that. THis is a serious question or I would not ask it.

[Combat Diver]

Thanks for the load recommendation, but my 9 twist barrel probably won't stabilize that heavy of a bullet. Might be worth a try. Thanks!

69 gr BTHP should stabilize fine. 1:9 stablizes up to 75 gr usually if you have a long barrel. + 20" and velocity is up.

CD

[khamill2000]

Sure is quiet on that head space question. We aren't just slapping
parts together with a hope and promise its all okay ? Thats not a
build, thats a car wreck.

Is anyone checking head space in their builds and if its off, how are you
correcting that. THis is a serious question or I would not ask it.

As I recall from the tutorials on AR15.com, If you buy quality parts from reputable manufacturers then checking head space is not necessarily an issue.

[klcarroll]

Sure is quiet on that head space question. We aren't just slapping
parts together with a hope and promise its all okay ? Thats not a
build, thats a car wreck.

Is anyone checking head space in their builds and if its off, how are you
correcting that. THis is a serious question or I would not ask it.



I have a set of Go/No-Go gauges. ($54 from Midway)

In doing several builds for myself, ...and helping friends with theirs; ....I have had to "fiddle" with a headspace issue only once.

In that case, a friend had bought a bare barrel that required the installation of the barrel extension and the drilling of the gas port.

Speaking only from my personal experience, ......I have yet to find a name brand barrel that didn't gauge acceptably with a new, name brand bolt. (YMMV)


Kent

[izzyjoe]

i just assume that if you buy a complete upper you don't have to worry about headspace. right?

[klcarroll]

i just assume that if you buy a complete upper you don't have to worry about headspace. right?

Well................

If somebody sold me a complete upper, (...including the bolt and carrier) that turned out to have headspace issues, I'd be outraged!

.......But that doesn't mean that I would fail to check it!


When you look at the amount of money that people put in to their "Black Gun" personal builds, I can't imagine NOT spending the $16.99 that Brownells wants for the "Field Gauge". (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=6646/Product/5_56mm___223__HEADSPACE_GAUGE)

If you're not actually fitting barrel extensions to virgin barrels, the "Field Gauge" is all you really need. This gauge is intended for use in well used and re-barrelled weapons. If a properly cleaned bolt will close and lock (with gentle effort) on a Field Gauge, the weapon in question should be serviced: ......Could it get easier than that???

Kent

[gew98]

I have a set of Go/No-Go gauges. ($54 from Midway)

In doing several builds for myself, ...and helping friends with theirs; ....I have had to "fiddle" with a headspace issue only once.

In that case, a friend had bought a bare barrel that required the installation of the barrel extension and the drilling of the gas port.

Speaking only from my personal experience, ......I have yet to find a name brand barrel that didn't gauge acceptably with a new, name brand bolt. (YMMV)


Kent


My experiance is the same , though I won't bother with a barrel not ready to install . My preference is 20" A1 barrels with 1/12 twist...and everyone I find is ready to go whether it's NIW or second hand.
I knew a fella that was an Armorer in the Army and then worked as a technician at Fort Dix NJ when they still did boot there and they often took worn headspace rifles ( early older M16's) and peened the back corner of the bolt locking lugs to make them pass. At the time I was astonished to see such work...but he told me then when there was no parts available and the weapons are expected out the door they were told to do it.

[thehouseproduct]

Sure is quiet on that head space question. We aren't just slapping
parts together with a hope and promise its all okay ? Thats not a
build, thats a car wreck.

Is anyone checking head space in their builds and if its off, how are you
correcting that. THis is a serious question or I would not ask it.
To answer your question, no. The majority of people do not check. The fact that the bolt is made from a mil spec drawing created to anticipate multiple sources making parts that need to be in spec has created an air of safety.

Is is 100% safe to do so, no. Nothing is absolute until you check with your own eyes.

Is it safer that replacing the bolt on most other guns that are somewhat fitted? Certainly. It was designed to be that way.

[thehouseproduct]

i just assume that if you buy a complete upper you don't have to worry about headspace. right?
Not anymore than checking headspace on a factory rifle.

[redneckdan]

Most barrels that were properly assembled will head space correctly with a milspec bolt. If the head space is a bit long that is not a huge issue if you are mostly reloading your own ammo. Get accurate head space measurements and set the shoulder back .001-.002 when you full length resize.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I did not check the headspace. I checked the fired case after shooting it the first time for any abnormalities.

[milprileb]

No offense but head space is the correct check on a assembly. That you did not do it or can rationalize why its not needed or inconvenient does not negate this fact.

Seems some are checking and I will follow that line.

Its a safety issue. You can ignore it and I hope no one ever gets hurt.

I won't ignore head space, will pay a few bucks to make sure its right and have
peace of mind.

[Moonie]

I cannot disagree with milprileb, he is absolutely correct. Unless you purchase a barrel and bolt together that come headspaced you are playing with fire. It is a simple check to determine if the headspace is correct.

Thankfully in my case both my 5.56 barrel and bolt and 6.8 barrel and bolt came as a headspaced set. I still had them checked, they were perfect.

[milprileb]

The Thought Police of Half A$$$$ED AR Builds is coming to get us. They outnumber us and are the champions of wing ding gunsmithing. :goodpost::goodpost::guntootsmiley:

[klcarroll]

The Thought Police of Half A$$$$ED AR Builds is coming to get us. They outnumber us and are the champions of wing ding gunsmithing. :goodpost::goodpost::guntootsmiley:


You need to explain this one: .....'Cause I don't get it!


Kent

[milprileb]

Think hard, its about head space and the lack of it by some AR builders.

[khamill2000]

The Thought Police of Half A$$$$ED AR Builds is coming to get us. They outnumber us and are the champions of wing ding gunsmithing. :goodpost::goodpost::guntootsmiley:


Think hard, its about head space and the lack of it by some AR builders.

Dude, really? A guy posts his rifle that he built and all you can do is run him down because he didn't do it the way you think he should have? Calling it half a$$ed? I'm going to go swap all the bolts around in all my AR's right now. :violin:

[nicholst55]

I have replaced several dozen M16 barrels and bolts in the past as a soldier, and built dozens of AR-15s both as a soldier and civilian. While I do own and use headspace gauges, I have personally never experienced a situation when working with new parts where headspace was excessive. That certainly doesn't mean that it doesn't happen or can't happen.

When working with used barrels or bolts - especially extremely well used barrels or bolts, all bets are off. If I were assembling an upper receiver or rifle with new parts and didn't have a headspace gauge, I would feel pretty confident that the headspace was within acceptable limits. I still wouldn't shoot it until I could gauge it, though, but that's just me. I'm sure that a lot of people assembling ARs in their garage don't have the headspace gauges.

And FWIW, I personally would have refused to peen locking lugs to obtain acceptable headspace on an M16. In a training environment, there is simply no justification for that kind of half-ass "repair."

YMMV.

[milprileb]

I expected the back lash of folks negating the need for head space and joked they are the Thought Police to make a point.

My point is safety and doing it right. If that offends someone, then they ought to reflect
that proper assembly of a weapon is indeed proper assembly.

There is no denial, folks are not head spacing their builds but because they do is not justification that this is a safe practice.

So, DUDE.... doing things right is purely doing things right. No debate and no further discussion if you subscribe to anything but that.

Safety is not open to debate.

[klcarroll]

Think hard, its about head space and the lack of it by some AR builders.


OK, Fine! ......If you want to continue in a derogatory tone, …..I’m sure someone here will give you a full truck-load of what you’re looking for!

….I ask the question because earlier in this thread you came on real strong about headspace and proper assembly procedures: …..Then, after several people supported your position, you drop a post on us that is deriding “The Thought Police of Half A$$$$ED AR Builds”!!!!!

In my world, THAT sounds like trolling.

There are plenty of other forums that are frequented by the “Mall-Ninja” and “Tacticool” types where you will find PLENTY of fools who are willing to rise to your bait: …….Try one of them!


Kent

[milprileb]

No, its all about safety and promoting building practices that are not sound.

You obviously disagree and cannot accept my concerns on the subject.

If open discussion is not permitted, then I guess I did not get the Memo ?

Ask LMT or Stag if they headspace.

[klcarroll]

...........You obviously disagree and cannot accept my concerns on the subject.


Fool! ........Try reading the thread you're posting in!

I'm the guy who mentioned that he owned a set of Go/No-GO gauges, ....and then went on to SUPPORT your position!!

Has anyone ever explained to you what to do with "A Rolling Donut"???


.

[khamill2000]

I expected the back lash of folks negating the need for head space and joked they are the Thought Police to make a point.


You MADE SURE it would happen when you posted this:


The Thought Police of Half A$$$$ED AR Builds is coming to get us. They outnumber us and are the champions of wing ding gunsmithing. :goodpost::goodpost::guntootsmiley:


troll