Felix lube question

[MtGun44]

I bought some Felix lube and it is quite hard, I do not have a heater and
prefer softer lubes. I assume I can add a softener, but in a look through the
Felix thread didn't find the specific answer to softening it.

If I just melt it and add synthetic 2 stroke oil, or ATF will it cause the
stuff to separate?

Is something like petroleum jelly or mineral oil better than ATF or 2 stroke lube?

Thanks!

Bill

[Maven]

Bill, I found the original [Felix Lube] recipe made a lube that was too hard as well. I found that remelting it and adding 1 tbs. of Vaseline (petrolatum) at a time did the trick. If memory serves, I think I wound up adding 2 - 4 tbs. to get the softness I wanted. Btw, I've used 2 tbs. ATF (Dexron) instead of mineral oil and cut the Ivory soap back to 1/2 tsp. else it wouldn't fully dissolve even when finely shredded.

[Centaur 1]

I made some Felix lube a couple of weeks ago for the first time. It smells sooooo much better than the lithi-bee that I was using. I'd avoid any automotive lubes just for that reason. It's my understanding that mineral oil and vaseline are virtually the same thing, just different viscosities. Just use whichever one you want and go slowly.

[geargnasher]

Bill, here's my take on it: I've found the oils boil off some during the polymerization phase, so if you start with a teaspoon of castor and two teaspoons of mineral oil, you will have about 2-1/4 teaspoons of oil 45 minutes later. If you add the recommended amount of wax and manage to get the whole heaping tablespoon of soap to dissolve you will have hard lube. Due to the way the components interact in the mix, I generally stick with the recipe, but add more cooked oils or decrease the wax to make it softer. This also makes it slicker, and it can be TOO slick if you overdo it, but adding a little bit more oil will get you where you want to be.

My specific solution to the too-hard lube was to precook the oils in a larger batch and store that. Then, when I make the lube, I warm the bottle to get the oils to blend again (mine sometimes separate), then measure out three teaspoons of the cooked oils so I get the correct amount, add one teaspoon of Jojoba, and melt in a tablespoon (level) of stearic acid granules, which dissolve almost instantly. I then add wax, melt it all together, cool to 150 degrees and add a tablespoon of lanolin. I've gotten away from adding pure carnauba flakes because it seems to make the lube too hard, although that's why Felix and Wiljen came up with adding such a large amount of carnauba to the formula using stearic acid instead of sodium stearate (Ivory soap), the stearic acid lowers the melting point of the lube and makes it a bit softer, so the carnauba dose was increased to compensate. By not boiling off a percentage of the oils, adding a little jojoba, and using stearic acid and leaving off the carnauba, it's about like NRA 50/50, only it works a little bit better IMO.

If you want to try some stearic acid, I have an abundance of it from the group buy and would be glad to send you a sample of it to try.

Gear

[MtGun44]

Gear,

Sounds good for making a batch from scratch, but I just need to soften the existing batch.

Anybody have a reason why ATF or synth 2 stroke oil would be bad? I worry that it will not
mix properly without stirring for half an hour and all like in the original mixing process, trying
to just keep it simple.

So now I know that vaseline will work to soften the lube, that is a step forward.

Vaseline sounds good, but I was guessing that ATF or 2 stroke oil add more lubricity, but I don't
want to turn a whole batch of lube into junk out of ignorance.

Bill

[Hip's Ax]

I would e-mail Felix himself through his Cast Boolits profile page. No sense in taking chances.

[fryboy]

from my understanding , the cooking/blending/polymerization is needed for the castor oil as it increases the hydrocarbon chain , from various reading i have garnered that if other oil is used the "cooking" isnt needed , hence atf etc should be fine to soften it up , i've read of various changes to the basic felix - most are with the oils used , decent results seem to be the rule as opposed to the exception , even lanolin should soften it somewhat but vaseline , atf , even two stroke oil should work , i would tend to believe that an oil vs. a semi solid grease type substance would be used in lesser quantity ( examples - grease, vaseline etc vs. jojoba , atf ,etc ) , i dont mind harder lubes so i use the ivory version mostly ( IMHO it is originally a wee harder than the stearic version , and yes i have made several batches of both ) i guess what i'm trying to say is that an added oil product will soften it but it should take less to do it , the vaseline/lanolin will soften as well but also add flex and tackiness ( somewhat )

[woody1]

As I recall, felix once told me to add canola oil a little at a time until I had the softness I wanted. Must be why I have a bottle of the stuff with my "lube supplies." Regards, Woody

[MBTcustom]

I just made up some felix lube that I believe would flow throw the lube sizer just fine. I had to modify the original recipe slightly because I didn't have enough bees wax or lanolin or carnauba wax. I polymerized the oils in the correct quantities, and I added the correct amount of soap. I only had about 85% of the recomended bees wax and I substituted bag balm for lanolin. (My understanding is that bag balm is 50/50 vaseline and lanolin.) I got my friend at the deli to give me some wax shavings off of a piece of cheese she was slicing up, and I nuked it and poured the wax into my lube, (about 3/4 teaspoon full if I was to guess) This stuff works great. I am pushing my boolits to 2200 FPS and so far I see no leading.
So, all things being equal, I would say that if the OP was to mix the caster oil and the mineral oil under heat like the recipe calls for and throw in a tablespoon of it and then add a tablespoon of vasaline, you would have an easier smooshing lube. But the easiest solution is to use the clothes iron on a sheet of aluminum trick to get the stuff to flow better 'cause we all like a lube that doesn't stick to everything or come off the boolits as they are want to do in the hot summer (at least thats what I deal with hear in the south.)

[geargnasher]

It's not so much the consistency for application, Goodsteel, it's getting the right viscocity for a narrow velocity window without too much lubricity that's kind of a challenge. Sometimes a soft, but not too slick lube works better than a firm one with similar lubricity. Sometimes it's the other way around, just depends on what you're doing. It's all about the best accuracy and shot-to-shot barrel condition remaining constant.

Gear

[Longwood]

Have any of you experts used or heard of anyone using Nufinish (the kind that comes in a can) as an additive to lube or trying it as a tumble lube?

[GabbyM]

Most car polish has abrasive clay in it.

[Mk42gunner]

Bill, I found the original [Felix Lube] recipe made a lube that was too hard as well. I found that remelting it and adding 1 tbs. of Vaseline (petrolatum) at a time did the trick. If memory serves, I think I wound up adding 2 - 4 tbs. to get the softness I wanted. Btw, I've used 2 tbs. ATF (Dexron) instead of mineral oil and cut the Ivory soap back to 1/2 tsp. else it wouldn't fully dissolve even when finely shredded.

Maven,

The easiest way I found to get the Ivory soap to combine with the rest of the ingredients is to open the bar of soap and let it dry for a month or two. Then instead of using a grater I scrape the side with a knife, this gives a powder instead of small chunks.

Robert

[Maven]

Robert, Thanks for that tip re Ivory soap!

[Longwood]

I use the stearic acid that RandyRat sells now instead of Ivory soap.

[MtGun44]

NuFinish is used in TUMBLING BRASS in corncob as a mild abrasive and wax. I doubt it would
do anything good if this water based liquid was dumped into the oil-wax mix in a lube.

Thanks for the comments. Felix says I should try one of my favorites and it should be
OK.

Bill

[Longwood]

NuFinish is used in TUMBLING BRASS in corncob as a mild abrasive and wax. I doubt it would
do anything good if this water based liquid was dumped into the oil-wax mix in a lube.

Thanks for the comments. Felix says I should try one of my favorites and it should be
OK.

Bill

Thanks, I read the MSDS before I went to the range this morning and somehow missed the water content.
I just now added some to my vibrator along with 50 45-70 brass to see how I like it.

[geargnasher]

Leave your soap on top of the water heater for about a week, it will be plenty dry on the surface. A small garlic grater will powder it. I know another ex-member who used a food processor to powder an entire bar that was left open for a few years. Lifetime supply.

Gear

[Mk42gunner]

Robert, Thanks for that tip re Ivory soap!

You are welcome, sir.


Leave your soap on top of the water heater for about a week, it will be plenty dry on the surface. A small garlic grater will powder it. I know another ex-member who used a food processor to powder an entire bar that was left open for a few years. Lifetime supply.

Gear

That is pretty much what I did. The bar I used was at least two years old, and I scraped enough off of it to fill a half cup Glad container.


Robert

[Hip's Ax]

I use the stearic acid that RandyRat sells now instead of Ivory soap.

Do you use an equal amount or more or less? I wrecked a batch of lube this past weekend trying to get the Ivory to melt. I would imagine the stearic acid would incorporate easily?

[Longwood]

Do you use an equal amount or more or less? I wrecked a batch of lube this past weekend trying to get the Ivory to melt. I would imagine the stearic acid would incorporate easily?

I cast my ingots in those stainless condiment cups from Walmart and decided to use them while making the lube.
The main reason I used the stearic acid is because I did not want to use paraffin like I had used before. I had used the acid several years ago for making candles so I knew what a small amount of it would do.
After adding all of the main ingredients, in the amounts that I wanted, into the batch, I poured a little of the melted lube into a couple of the cups and let it set up. I kept doing that as I proceeded. I added a level tablespoon of the acid at a time then poured a test into some new cups then added more until the lube was the consistency that I wanted.
The stearic acid melts into the lube very easily so it went pretty quickly. Be careful to not add too much too soon as it stiffens the lube quite nicely. I figured I could always add more of the other ingredients if I got it too hard.

[mroliver77]

In Felix's writings that are archived on castpics he said that atf would be fine. He claimed that it has extra "slickies" that could help. I have made it both ways and really like the atf version. Like gear I cook a large batch of oils and store them for future use. Mine do not separate that I have noticed.

For lube that is too slick I add alox to it. FWFL with a couple T of alox is good stuff! Too much might keep lube from flinging off.
Jay

[Longwood]

For lube that is too slick I add alox to it. FWFL with a couple T of alox is good stuff! Too much might keep lube from flinging off.
Jay

I am trying to follow this thread and went back through them and still have no idea what FWFL is.
A clue would be most appreciated.
Thanks.

[GabbyM]

FWFL = Felix World Famous Lube

[Longwood]

FWFL = Felix World Famous Lube

Thanks for helping.
Again!

[utk]

And FWWFL is Felix-Wiljen-World-Famous-Lube.

It has Stearic Acid instead of Ivory soap. It was Wiljen who presented the Stearic Acid alternative here in a forum post.