H&R Handi-Rifle Questions

[DukeInFlorida]

OK, so I am thinking about getting a H&R Handi-Rifle.

My budget isn't such that I could afford a bunch of lever action rifles in the calibers I'd want them in.

So, I am thinking that the H&R Handi would be the way to go.

I want a rifle to shoot .500 S&W Mag.
I also want a rifle that shoots 45-70 government.

I see on H&R's site that I can get a gun, send it in to them, and they'll fit an extra barrel for short money.

Any one with comments on this gun, and how to go about the two barrel setup? I;d almost think that I would somehow order a new one through their distributor, but while the factory has it, just fit the extra barrel before you send it out. That make any sense?

This is the style/model that suits me:
http://www.hr1871.com/Images/photo_Handi_500.jpg

45/70 Gov't. (SB2-457)

500 S&W (SB2-500)

barrels:
*45-70 Govt 22” Open Sights & Drilled and Tapped for Scope Rail
F457
$96.00

*45-70 Govt 32” Dovetailed for front sight, drilled and tapped for rear sight, sights not included. Dovetailed & Drilled/Tapped
FW45
$120.00

*500 S&W Open Sights & Drilled and Tapped for Scope Rail
F440
$96.00

[barrabruce]

I know nothing...but the short 45-70 seems to boot a lot more than the longer one.
Could be the stock of if its different on the Baffalo clasic thou.
From those at my local range.
Hope it helps
Bara.
Greybeards site may be the go on all things handi.
I got a 30-30 and love it warts and all.

[onondaga]

Hello Duke, I originally got a Handi model Ultra Varmint SB2 in .223 Rem bull barrel and then sent it to NEF and had it fitted with a .500 S&W. I requested their free trigger job also. Turn around time was 5 weeks.

If you go to a dealer, they can order it direct with two barrels, both fitted and you won't have the second wait time and the extra shipping fee. You will likely still have the 5 week wait for a barrel fitting but it will come with both.

I get superb accuracy with both barrels, each sub MOA accuracy. The .500 did shoot the first cold shot high every time until I polished the bore with a Hoppe's Bore Snake and polishing compound. That totally solved the problem. These inexpensive rifles do not come with match grade highly polished bores and that is typical of the model. I would recommend bore polishing before you even shoot the rifle. The polishing will also eliminate the standard break-in shoot a few and clean routine till you get 100 rounds through the barrel.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/500Bal.jpg

I use BPI Original filler to rim before seating the boolit. Rifle sighted in to impact 2 inches high at 50 yards

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/09deer.jpg

It works well for deer in .500 S&W. This after market varmint stock has sufficient comb height for scope use as does the Ultra Varmint laminated wood Monti Carlo original stock on the model I purchased.

Check prices on front and rear sights for the long 32 inch 45-70 barrel, I think the sights are pretty pricey and that barrel is not tapped for a scope base, only for sights. The 22 inch barrel comes with OK but not terrific open sights and it is tapped for a scope rail also. However the plain stock is too shallow in the comb for a scope and will need a high cheek pad or an additional Monti Carlo butt stock.

My Butt Stock compartment is filled with bird shot covered with a Silly Putty layer before the butt plate. All up weight of 9.5 lbs reduces recoil to a comfortable, less than 30-30 lever rifle level with my pet load above..

For the modern shooter, I believe the .500 S&W is superior to the 45-70. Not by much, but it has superior ballistics and has the capacity to obsolete the 45-70. In my opinion, you only need one of those calibers and I choose the .500 S&W

Gary

[DukeInFlorida]

I currently load the .500 S&W magnum for my revolver, so naturally, I'd love to be able to expand my shooting for that caliber. I don't currently reload the 45-70, but have always admired that one. Figured it would be worth the extra barrel.

My go to hunting guns are a Winchester 30-30 and a Marlin 44 Mag. Either one are perfect for the woods here in Maine. So, this Handi-Rifle would be purely a range shooting gun.

I'm partial to wood stocks, and figured the wood stock would be better for me than the high tech plastic stock. Gotta get a sense for scopes, heights, etc. I'm OK with open sights. Wish there was a dealer with some in stock near me.

[cephas53]

Have a 45/70 Handi that I dedicated to cast only. As suggested earlier I went over to greybeards and found allot of good info in the handi faq section. While awaiting for the reloading dies to arrive I did a little prep work on it. As onondaga recommends I (gasp) polished the bore before the first shot. The trigger wasn't to my liking so I followed the instructions from greybeards and it is much better. However, for me, it did resemble a monkey mating ritual dance to get the trigger unit back in place. Also I have heard, but can't say for sure, that if you send the rifle back to the factory with an altered trigger, other than their work, they'll replace it with a stock unit. I'd let them do it originally if they had the rifle. Really have had an enjoyable time working with it. Main load has been the Lee 405 gr HB, Bac lube, and a trapdoor charge of 5744.

[onondaga]

.500 S&W handgun data can be used for the rifle loads, but I will tell you something peculiar. The velocity gains with the rifle are not as predictable as you would expect. I chronograph my loads and generally expected 150 to 200 fps gain over handgun data. There is quite a variation. some powders have little gain and some powders have a lot. I wouldn't use a standard number like 200 fps gain, it is just not so.

I can also tell you that loads with Hodgdon Lil Gun within 3% of max have VERY UNPLEASANT recoil. H110 and WC820 work well. Light loads with IMR TrailBoss 80% fill are great fun also.

If you will be scoping, look up the Dednutz one piece base/rings. I have broken 2 weaver sets with recoil. the Dednutz is super strong and has perfect alignment, several thousand rounds-no damage, zero holding. The 2 Weavers died at about 100-200 rounds.

Gary

[DukeInFlorida]

I love loading the .500 magnum with TrailBoss! It's mild for kids.

I have been poking around at graybeards, and there's lots of info there.

Started bumping into familiar names there also..... Gonna save my pennies. Looks like doing the two barrel right from the get-go is the right way. And, I have to decide whether to go open sights or not. My sense is telling me to do open sights.

And, one other area that you guys can answer a bit on..........

The wood stocks vs the plastic stocks. I see lots of discussions at graybeards about aftermarket stocks. Some of them are damn nice for the money. Comments on that?

[Catshooter]

Duke,

Watch out man! The Handis are very addictive.

I have:

16.5 inch .45-70
22 inch .45-70
32 inch .45-70
.30-30
.225 Winchester
410,20 and 12 gauge
all fitted to the same receiver.

I like both styles of stocks. Plastic for hunting/rough duty is best in by eyes. Right now my receiver is at the stockmakers getting some outstanding wood installed. Can hardly wait.

Now I don't have a .500 but to me the 45-70/500 is sort of redundant. But I do see the revolver/rifle in the same caliber as a valid concept. The 45 in the Handi can be loaded to very painful levels, 500 grains to 1800 fps? Not for this kid.

Enjoy yours.


Cat

[NickSS]

I have several handy rifles in different calibers and I have sent the rifles back to get extra barrels fitted. I have a 22 inch 45-70 barrel and also have the same action fitted with a 357 mag barrel. The I have an ultra varmint in 223 also fitted with a 308 bull barrel. I have a 243 in a plastic stock also fitted with a 45 colt 410 barrel (this last barrel is poor with the colt round but with blown out 303 British shells it shoots good out to 100 yards). My last one is a target rifle in 38-55 that is a real tack driver. I do not own a 500 S&W and probably will not get one as the 45-70 will do everything the 500 will. However, I have thought about getting one and using it with black powder to simulate the old 50 Carbine load that the Government toyed with back in the late 1860s for awhile. That might be a hoot but I have to wonder if it is worth getting all setup in another caliber.

[DukeInFlorida]

Wow, so I have heard it about six different ways:

The .500 S&WMagnum is just about the same as the 45-70, so don't bother with the 45-70.

So, I'll go with that.

Which leaves me to ask MYSELF.... so, what other caliber would I like to have a barrel for at the same time I get the .500 S&W setup?

I'm all set with rifles for:
* 30-30
* 30-06
* .308 Win
* .44 Mag
* .303 Brit
* 7.62 X 54R

I have no rifles, but tons of brass, and tools for:

* 270
* 25-06
* 243
* 7.62 X 39
*45 Colt

Hmmmmmmmm. I see this listed as an available barrel:
.410/45 Colt 20” Mod

That might be interesting.

[NHlever]

Maine is a pretty large state, and I don't know where you are from Kittery, but the trading post there usually has them, and they have a web site to contact tham. KTP.com, or if you want to look at a list of their used guns it is KTPguns.com.

[onondaga]

The 25-06 barrel from NEF is interesting because of the length being so long. If you don't have a long barrel, consider that one.

Gary

[DukeInFlorida]

I'm just a bit North and West of Portland, so that puts KTP about 45 minutes from here. Next time down there I will check them out.


Maine is a pretty large state, and I don't know where you are from Kittery, but the trading post there usually has them, and they have a web site to contact tham. KTP.com, or if you want to look at a list of their used guns it is KTPguns.com.

[NickSS]

Dukein Maine if you get the 45/410 barrel make sure you pay them to drill and tap it for scope mounts otherwise all you get is a shotgun bead on the muzzle and no rear sight. I got mine that way and it was a pain. I ended up soldering a scope base to the barrel which works but it would have been nicer to have it drilled and tapped. Also due to the long chamber that fits up to 3 inch 410 shells the 45 colt shells do not work particularly well due to the long jump the bullets have to make before they engage the rifling. By the way you need to use .454" diameter bullets to get any accuracy at all. With 45 colt rounds the best I could do was pie plate sized groups at 25 yards and at 50 yards several would miss the paper altogether. I then annealed a bunch of british 303 cases and blew them out. I neck size them with my 45 colt dies and seat the bullets with the same dies. I bumped up the 45 colt loads 1 or 15% becasue of the extra volume of the case. The bullet is closer to the rifling and gives much better accuracy. This barrel comes with a screw in choke tube to be used with the 410 shot loads. It straightens out the shot so it does not disperse and fast as it does without the choke. You need to remove the choke when using rifle bullets.

[DukeInFlorida]

Thanks for the tip on that barrel, Nick.

Sounds like more of a pain than anything else. I understand the drill and tap for the scope.

Not sure why they would sell this as a 45 Colt/ .410 combo (other than the fact that they are the same diameter) when there's such an accuracy loss when shooting the rifle bullets. The "JUDGE" is a very short barreled hand gun, and I guess no one expects that it will be accurate out to 50 yards.

I'll skip that barrel.

As I said earlier, I have lots of other brass calibers with no current tooling, and was looking for some new fun caliber to shoot. . . . with a barrel that would get ordered to compliment the .500 S&W Magnum barrel.


Dukein Maine if you get the 45/410 barrel make sure you pay them to drill and tap it for scope mounts otherwise all you get is a shotgun bead on the muzzle and no rear sight. I got mine that way and it was a pain. I ended up soldering a scope base to the barrel which works but it would have been nicer to have it drilled and tapped. Also due to the long chamber that fits up to 3 inch 410 shells the 45 colt shells do not work particularly well due to the long jump the bullets have to make before they engage the rifling. By the way you need to use .454" diameter bullets to get any accuracy at all. With 45 colt rounds the best I could do was pie plate sized groups at 25 yards and at 50 yards several would miss the paper altogether. I then annealed a bunch of british 303 cases and blew them out. I neck size them with my 45 colt dies and seat the bullets with the same dies. I bumped up the 45 colt loads 1 or 15% becasue of the extra volume of the case. The bullet is closer to the rifling and gives much better accuracy. This barrel comes with a screw in choke tube to be used with the 410 shot loads. It straightens out the shot so it does not disperse and fast as it does without the choke. You need to remove the choke when using rifle bullets.

[onondaga]

I have my Old Orchard Beach shirt on right now Duke. I lived on Biddeford Pool, 17 miles from Portland from 67 to 70 and attended what was then St. Francis College, now part of U of Me. I have friends in Biddeford Pool that I visit occasionally.
My brother's Ornithology professor there sent me to the best Woodcock hunting paradise in the world off Rt 9 in that area I believe.

Gary

[DukeInFlorida]

Nice!

My kids want me to take them to OOB for fireworks on July 4th. However, I advised them that the 3 hour traffic jam to get back out of town at the end isn't worth the effort.

And, when I lived in Massachusetts as a teenager, the first love of my life broke my heart when her family moved to Biddeford Pool.

Let me know next time you are over this way. We can get a beer someplace or shoot at Scarborough:
http://www.scarfg.org/twiki/bin/view/


I have my Old Orchard Beach shirt on right now Duke. I lived on Biddeford Pool, 17 miles from Portland from 67 to 70 and attended what was then St. Francis College, now part of U of Me. I have friends in Biddeford Pool that I visit occasionally.
My brother's Ornithology professor there sent me to the best Woodcock hunting paradise in the world off Rt 9 in that area I believe.

Gary

[DukeInFlorida]

This 45 colt brass that I have is eating away at me. I'm thinking that it might be a perfect second barrel. However, I am heeding what Nick had to say.

I see that H&R offers their single shot "buffalo gun" in just 45 long colt.

It occurred to me that I might be able to get H&R to make me a Handi Rifle barrel that's just 45 long colt, so I don't have to deal with the 3" jump (.410)....

So, I visited their site, expecting to find an email link so that I could pose that question. Huh? No email link on their site??? They want you to send them "snail mail"????? In this day and age.

Anyone have any experience with talking to their techies on the phone for that sort of question? I don't want a $400 buffalo gun. I want a Handi rifle, with two barrels: 500 S&W Mag and 45 long colt. That should be simple, right???

[onondaga]

Here is a link to H&R Customer Support Barrel Accessory Program:
http://www.hr1871.com/Support/accessoryProgram.asp

They don't appear to be offering the 45 Colt as an accessory barrel right now.

1-866-776-9292 is their support number. Sometimes they can be convinced to fit any barrel that is available with an SB2 rifle as an accessory barrel in a combo purchase. Your FFL would be more successful with that type of a call.

Gary

[hunter2]

Have heard they are going to make some 300 blk rifles. Anybody heard anything about barrels???

[onondaga]

The H&R website is updated regularly and has a news section also. You can link to it from the link in my post #19 in this thread. A call to the customer service number would also get you a definitive answer about forthcoming calibers.

Gary

[camaro1st]

[QUOTE=
1-866-776-9292 is their support number. Sometimes they can be convinced to fit any barrel that is available with an SB2 rifle as an accessory barrel in a combo purchase. Your FFL would be more successful with that type of a call.

Gary[/QUOTE]

when i first got my handi (243) the brass had a ring around the shoulder of the case, which wouldn't let the case go all the way in. virgin brass was fine. i had a hard time with talking to the support people had to ask for a tech. they told me they didnt recomend reloads and that there was nothing they could do. i was upset to say the least. talked to my "guy" and had it fixed in 2 wks and was shooting reloads well within my ablity. Planing on a 357magnum in the near future from them

[onondaga]

That is very normal. You will have a hard time finding an arms manufacturer encouraging you to shoot reloaded ammo, They build their arms to shoot factory ammo and most will not warranty their arms when fired with reloaded ammo.

When you are having trouble with reloading components call the manufacturer of the components.

Gary

[badbob454]

i got a handi rifle in 45/70 sent it out to get a bull barrel .223 , a 44mag , a 12guage single and a free trigger job ... shoots great ..it was 4-5 weeks wait to fit , was worth it just wish i did a 308 0r a 30-06 too