6.5 Swede HV Finale

[Larry Gibson]

6.5 Swede HV Finale

All who care about this topic are well aware of the previous threads. Thus I’ll not go into a lot of past detail suffice to say that with the 3GB bullet I was pretty much topped out at 2050 fps in my M38 Swede using the ‘technique as described by 45 2.1 and starmetal. I was using the load starmetal claimed 2380 fps with in his M96. Accuracy was 1.5 – 3 moa with no consistency and certainly no where near the 1 moa or less that was claimed for this technique. The testing was pretty much finished pending my aquiring any of the actual 6.5 Kurtz designed bullets that were supposed to be the key.

Well, starmetal finally sent me some of his 6.5 Kurtz cast bullets. After a careful visual inspection I selected 40 that had no visual defects. I weighed 20 of them and came up with an average weight with Hornady GC of 131.58 gr. They had an ES of 1.1 gr. The bullets were cast of 50/50 WW/lead alloy according to starmetal. The BHN (Lee) of 5 of them tested on the bullet meplat was 11-12. As cast they ran .268 - .2695” I sized them at .268 and lubed them with Javelina.

Cases were US milsurps ’06 reformed from U42 brass. They were well fire formed and the same cases that I used in previous tests. The cases were NS’d with .002 - .003 neck tension on the bullets. The primers were Remington 9 1/2s.

A charge of 31 gr AA4350 was put in the cases and then the case was filled to the mouth with Original Buffer from BPI. Several taps on the bench settled the buffer to the bottom of the case neck (as per 45 2.1s instructions). The bullet was seated in the Hornady New Dimension seating die that was altered for the larger diameter bullet and to apply a tapered crimp (again as per 45 2.1s instructions. The Kurtz bullet was seated so the base of the bullet was at the bottom of the case neck. The first 2 driving bands were sized to .266 on chambering by the throat. Any longer cartridge OAL would result in the bullet sticking in the throat if not fired and the case extracted. This is “the” load as described by starmetal.

I tested the load today by firing 3 ten shot groups at 100 yards and 1 ten shot group at 200 yards. I used my M38 as is today with the 2X Leupold scout scope on it. Using a 2” diamond as an aiming point I can shoot consistent 1 moa with this rifle using my hunting load with the 140 Hornady SP at 2700 fps. Some 5 shot groups are sub moa and some are slightly larger but the average is just about moa. It was a very nice day at the range with the temp at 63 and little wind.

The 1st group shown is the 2nd 10 shot group at 100 yards and the best one. Group size is 3.3”. Not exactly stellar but considering the 2050 fps it still wasn’t bad. Aiming point was the bottom tip of the diamond. The 2nd group shown is the 200 yard group. It is 5.87”. The aiming point was the center of the bull. This groups shows there was linear dispersion of the group. This shows that the RPM threshold was successfully pushed up considering the 180,000+ RPM. Just for giggles I traced a bean can and we can see that 5 of the shots would have hit it.

While accuracy was not stellar it was still minute of deer or coyote to 200 yards. It was not anywhere as good as that claimed by starmetal with his at even a higher velocity/RPM. The accuracy of the Kurtz bullet also was not any better than the 3 GB bullet or the Lyman 266455 used in the previous tests.

Now, claims will be made as they have in the past that I can’t shoot and/or the rifle can’t shoot. So to allay that notion I then shot a 10 shot group at 100 yards with the Hornady hunting load. The barrel was not cleaned after the 40 cast bullet shots. There were also no “foulers”. Ten shots were fired and all ten are on target. The group of those 10 shots is 1.35” and is shown in the 3rd photo. The 1st shot is the left one, the 2nd the right one and the next two are the bottom center shots. The rifle then settled in after the 40 cast bullet shots and the next 6 went into the group at 12 o’clock in the diamond. Those 6 shots are in .725”.

Thus we can see I can shoot and the M38 6.5 Swede rifle can shoot. The problem is no matter what I tried I could not equal the accuracy with cast bullets at the high velocities starmetal and 45 2.1 claimed. I could equal the velocity at 2380 fps from my M96 Swede but accuracy was basically non-existent. I must admit, even for all the effort, time, assistance from others and advise from starmetal and 45 2.1 I was not able to duplicate their claimed feat of sub moa accuracy at 2380 fps from a 6.5 Swede. Unless there is some startling breakthrough that makes such easier to attain I am finished with my HV 6.5 tests.

Larry Gibson

[swheeler]

You sure there isn't something wrong with that rifle!:bigsmyl2: I do wonder about the 11 bhn hardness though, seems the claims were made using h2o dropped 50/50 alloy? My water dropped 50/50 ww-pb come out as 18+- BHN after a month, and air cooled 50/50 is about 10+- after a month. Just wondering about that, and I very well may be wrong, you know CRS and everything. Scott

[Larry Gibson]

swheeler

I wondered about that too but that's what he sent. I as using a BHN of 18 or so with the 3GC bullets and accuracy was probably a little better. Not enough to claim "success" with though. But "wat te hey" I could've got 50% hits on a bean can....."Stella......I could've been a contender.....":drinks:

Larry Gibson

[DrB]

Great range report larry. Thanks for the data!

Best regards...

[swheeler]

50 % hits on a bean can, THAT DO'NT AMOUNT TO A HILL OF BEANS!

[geargnasher]

Thanks for posting Larry, I still can't get either of mine to shoot cast well above about 1500 fps, but I'm using different boolits than you. The cut-down Cruise Missile is so unstable I finally gave up on it. It's balance point is about .010" forward of center, no wonder it keyholes. The full-length one isn't much better. I can get about 1-1/2" at 50 yards, good enough for hunting around here, but kind of pointless except they are really fun loads to practice different shooting positions while rolling cans.

Gear

[longbow]

Larry:

Now I will have to go back and re-read the other posts on progress (short memory).

While I don't have a 6.5 Swede this has made for interesting and informative reading and I know you put in a pile of work to do it all.

Thanks for sharing, I am sure everyone appreciates your efforts and great posts. I know I do.

Longbow

[Larry Gibson]

Not wanting to resurrect the dead but something "new" and “interesting” has developed. Satrmetal has posted a target (posted below) on a thread at AR forum to gearnasher of the 31 gr AA4350 load used here by me also. Interestingly and new he states the velocity to b3 now “2200 fps”. That is not the 2380 - 2385 fps velocity listed for that load on the numerous threads here at CBF. I have been severely criticized by starmetal and 45 2.1 in these threads for not being able “to do it”.

If one researches the threads one finds most of my testing done with a M38 with a shorter barrel. That includes the data listed in my 1st post on this thread. However I also did chronograph the 31 gr AA4350 load in my own longer barreled M96 and guess what? The velocity is almost identical to what starmetal now claims is the velocity for that load. His now listed velocity is certainly in line with what my 3 Oehler chronographs say it is.

Bottom line is I did indeed equal his velocity with good accuracy. Certainly not the accuracy starmetal always claimed for just about everything but that’s another story that has been beaten to death so I’ll not go there. Just want to mention that the truth has finally emerged regarding the actual velocity of starmetal's 6.5 load from starmetal himself.

Larry Gibson

[swheeler]

Interesting indeed, and yes I remember the right at 2400 fps with extreme accuracy claims. I also note that the alloy is 50/50WW-Pb air cooled? it was always stated as 50/50 H2O dropped, what's up with that? Looks to me that the RPM calculations are off also,2200x720/7.8 twist=203079, now I know that is nitpicking but just threw it in there. Let me ask a question, if the velocity can now be 200 fps slower, could it actually be 400 fps slower? I have chronoed literally thousands of loads over about 20 years, very very seldom do I get a load that produces a number of exactly 1900,2000,2200 etc-only Hornady can do that. Now I know that 5 or 10 fps makes little difference but my targets show the actual average velocity for x number of shots and usually contain extreme spreads. So 2400,2200, 2000, or 1800 fps who really knows? One thing I am sure of is that there will be some "explanation" of how everyone misunderstood what was really said and how if they followed the "directions" their results would be the same. OMG my decoder ring still hasn't arrived!

[shooter93]

Thanks Larry, it turned out as I expected and what I sort of stumbled on to long ago but I never took it as far as you have...cudos.

[45 2.1]

About what you can expect when you don't follow all the directions. A good effort though. It takes quite a while to make buffer perform as Starmetal and I said. BTW, that was one of his first successes, not the final synopsis of his experience........ later he learned to use it the correct way (thats where you get the velocity boost). Hint: your buffer technique isn't correct, :bigsmyl2: along with a couple of other things.

[357maximum]

About what you can expect when you don't follow all the directions. A good effort though. It takes quite a while to make buffer perform as Starmetal and I said. BTW, that was one of his first successes, not the final synopsis of his experience........ later he learned to use it the correct way (thats where you get the velocity boost). Hint: your buffer technique isn't correct, :bigsmyl2: along with a couple of other things.

:target_smiley::dung_hits_fan::not listening:



Larry...Thank you for trying this....even though you did it wrong. :lol:

[Larry Gibson]

:target_smiley::dung_hits_fan::not listening:



Larry...Thank you for trying this....even though you did it wrong. :lol:

Oh well, guess my supr secret decoder ring wasn't deciphering all the secret things to do:groner:.........must have left a wrinkle on the rice paper somewhere.......[smilie=l::2 drunk buddies:

Larry Gibson

[357maximum]

Nah no wrinkles in the rice paper.....you just forgot to hit the turbo boost button.:veryconfu Maybe if you push the trigger forward instead of squeezing it rearward you would get more velocity.:veryconfu

[geargnasher]

It's not the RICE paper that's wrong Larry, you're not using Starmetal's Official 100-Yard HV target paper. It has to have regular spacing, not "college ruled" either.

Gear

[swheeler]

It's not the RICE paper that's wrong Larry, you're not using Starmetal's Official 100-Yard HV target paper. It has to have regular spacing, not "college ruled" either.

Gear

Or maybe PreacherMetal forgot one of the commandments, thou shalt not lie.

[badgeredd]

Funny that we never had the loads and rifle in question brought to the party to show and tell. The non-specific, half-baked super secret explanations finally made me realize that I'd likely never get there since I didn't have the decoder ring or the code sheet. I imagine I might be able to do it in my dreams though.

Edd

[45 2.1]

Funny that we never had the loads and rifle in question brought to the party to show and tell. The non-specific, half-baked super secret explanations finally made me realize that I'd likely never get there since I didn't have the decoder ring or the code sheet. I imagine I might be able to do it in my dreams though. Edd

Funny neither one of you followed the directions......... the last ones in particular. Buffer works in the midsized 243 size case to the 7x57 as was related. It works in a narrow band though. One has to learn where that occurs. The procedure is fairly easy, once you learn where that range is. Besides, neither one of you were interested enough to ask how, you both thought you could follow a simple outline to get there...... you both wanted a demo, not to learn how.

[HollowPoint]

I think you guys take yourselves way to seriously.

It reminds me of the politicians we keep hearing about that will pounce on their rivals
due to the slightest change in their original statements or posts; or at the slightest hint of
exaggeration in their results.

I'm glad Larry did these tests for himself and I'm glad the other two guys were able to get
the performance they claimed to get.

All the parties involved were shooting different rifles of the same caliber I assume. We all
know that every rifle; even those of the same caliber; will shoot differently.

Heck; there's a high probability that if Larry were to shoot 45 2.1s gun using all the criteria and receipts that were listed, he still might not get the results they were shooting for simply because there was a small change in the process. (in this case it would be a different shooter)

Any time anyone post pics and makes claims like those posted about their successes with their 6.5 Swede HV, of course you're going to be expected to back up your claims.

The only sure way to back them up is to prove it in front of those who have questioned your results. If you don't or can't; no matter if you have valid reasons for not being able to do so; it will be difficult to measure your honesty.

The internet is littered with colossal claims. This forum is not exempt from that but, one sure way to shut your detractors up is to prove it in the presence of those who don't believe you.

HollowPoint

[Jim]

45 2.1, would you post the directions for me? I have a 6.5 swede and would really like to try your method so I could improve the way my rifle shoots.

Thanks!

[badgeredd]

Funny neither one of you followed the directions......... the last ones in particular. Buffer works in the midsized 243 size case to the 7x57 as was related. It works in a narrow band though. One has to learn where that occurs. The procedure is fairly easy, once you learn where that range is. Besides, neither one of you were interested enough to ask how, you both thought you could follow a simple outline to get there...... you both wanted a demo, not to learn how.

Let's analyze those statements Bobby.

First you never actually gave instructions as can be shown by many posts where you gave little or no real information to allow others to duplicate your claims.

Second, if this procedure works so well, why did you never bring out a firearm and loads to show us the results?

If it is all that simple, why would one need much more than the basics to duplicate your supposed results?

AND you are way out of line saying we wanted a demo. We offered to back up your claims if you could show us. You didn't, we didn't. If you think we should pay tribute to your achievements, it is not out of line for us to ask that you show us.

Simple facts are on this forum, most everyone expects a person to back up their claims to eliminate false information. You haven't nor do I expect you too.

Edd

[badgeredd]

Any time anyone post pics and makes claims like those posted about their successes with their 6.5 Swede HV, of course you're going to be expected to back up your claims.

The only sure way to back them up is to prove it in front of those who have questioned your results. If you don't or can't; no matter if you have valid reasons for not being able to do so; it will be difficult to measure your honesty.

The internet is littered with colossal claims. This forum is not exempt from that but, one sure way to shut your detractors up is to prove it in the presence of those who don't believe you.

HollowPoint

There is the crux of the problem. On multiple occasions, several of us have been in a position to see with our own eyes the results of the methods used to get the claimed results. As said above it didn't come to pass for whatever reason. I therefore can not back up the claims and find them in question. Nuff said.

Edd

[swheeler]

Funny that we never had the loads and rifle in question brought to the party to show and tell. The non-specific, half-baked super secret explanations finally made me realize that I'd likely never get there since I didn't have the decoder ring or the code sheet. I imagine I might be able to do it in my dreams though.Edd

That's already been done!:kidding:

[45 2.1]

That's already been done!:kidding:

Your welcome to come over to Accurite and discuss this swheeler.

[Jim]

I'm pickin' up a lot of bad vibes. Does that mean I'm not gonna get the data and instructions? I was really excited when I saw this and was hopin' I could get some instruction to help me.

[swheeler]

Your welcome to come over to Accurite and discuss this swheeler.

Thanks for offering but no thanks Bob. My notes show that Joe and I started testing PSB in March of 2009 in 6.5s(about 6 months after Heethydee posted a 6.5 target here), I couldn't follow directions I guess, so our results varied considerably. I have no interest in debating you or Joe about amazing accuracy at high velocity, you guys have at it! Again thanks but no thanks.;)

[45 2.1]

45 2.1, would you post the directions for me? I have a 6.5 swede and would really like to try your method so I could improve the way my rifle shoots.

Thanks!


First you never actually gave instructions as can be shown by many posts where you gave little or no real information to allow others to duplicate your claims.

Edd

Guys-
The thread that has the instructions is here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=70923&page=13 It is on page 13 on the "Milk Jug" thread thats a sticky in Cast Boolits, post # 252. Pay attention to posts # 86 & 205 also. That was posted on 1/6/10 and the last edit was on the date posted. Currently the thread is locked, Ken is reviewing the matter. Note that the instructions assume you know how to do several things and has some requirements. Substituting things and not following dimensional requirements will get you nowhere. The part about asking questions is there for a reason, you will need help. It took Starmetal 2 months to figure it out, you'll be little different as everyone so far has tried it his way and failed.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Did you guys ever think maybe your Chronos weren't calibrated the same.

I think it would completely feasible that someones chrono could be not reading the exact velocity. Mine don't!

There are other factors that affect chronos also. Like Bright sunlight.

My Chrony reads better than 200 FPS off when used in bright sunlight. In dimmer light it is right on,,, supposedly? My friends chrony is completely different than mine with the smae loads going thru it.

The variances I've seen in this thread could easily be attribuatble to this one factor.

And don't think that higher end instruments aren't susceptable to the same vagaries.

Plus that,,, YOU guys get way to puffy over jack squat!

My.02

Randy

[Hardcast416taylor]

And to think that I had quit wearing my calf high barn boots when reading about the 6.5 Swede here?:groner:Robert

[Larry Gibson]

Heck; there's a high probability that if Larry were to shoot 45 2.1s gun using all the criteria and receipts that were listed, he still might not get the results they were shooting for simply because there was a small change in the process. (in this case it would be a different shooter)

That offer was made to starmetal (he makes the claims and says he got the rifle from 45 2.1) on numerous occaisions by me. Several others also offered to go to starmetal's and observe him do it. All were turned down by starmetal. I also offered to attend one of 45 2.1's "group shoots" so I could learn how it was done; that also was turned down.


Did you guys ever think maybe your Chronos weren't calibrated the same.

"Larry" chronographed the loads over 3 different Oehler chronographs (M11, M35P and a M43) and a PACT on different days under different conditions. All 4 of those gave essentially the same velocities. Figure the odds of all 4 of those chronographs being out of whack exactly the same way?

If you are interest in how extensive my tests were, even following the very vague instructions 45 2.1 says are in starmetal’s milk jug thread and his and starmetals further “help” read this thread;

Testing 6.5 Swede HV loading with shotgun filler @ http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=72897&highlight=6.5+swede

That thread is the precursor to this thread and is what the 6.5 Swede HV Finale is about.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Ben

I lay out the "process" clearly in my thread as posted bove if you want clear directions (or as clear as they will get anyway) on what is done. You might take a look at it.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

It's not the RICE paper that's wrong Larry, you're not using Starmetal's Official 100-Yard HV target paper. It has to have regular spacing, not "college ruled" either.

Gear

Yes, you're probably correct....the target (on regular spaced, lined college ruled paper with an ill defined aiming point) is probably the current "secret"[smilie=b:. My "100 yards" probably isn't what starmetal's "100 yards" is either:kidding:

Larry Gibson

[45 2.1]

Ben

I lay out the "process" clearly in my thread as posted bove if you want clear directions (or as clear as they will get anyway) on what is done. You might take a look at it.

Larry Gibson

A comparison would be a good idea. Please look at what Larry posted in the initial #1 post, Last edited by Larry Gibson; 09-28-2011 at 12:59 AM. and posted on 6/15/11, which I just viewed before posting this and the linked post on the Milk Jug thread post #252 above. You will note Larry did what I told not to do with the buffer and the results from doing so (which happened as warned). That is one thing he clearly did not follow along with some other items. Usually not following directions, like cooking, turns out a poor result.

[geargnasher]

45 2.1, would you post the directions for me? I have a 6.5 swede and would really like to try your method so I could improve the way my rifle shoots.

Thanks!


I'm pickin' up a lot of bad vibes. Does that mean I'm not gonna get the data and instructions? I was really excited when I saw this and was hopin' I could get some instruction to help me.

Jim, I don't thing anyone is going to be interested in helping you since you went and convinced a moderator to CLOSE the best thread where this very, exact topic was discussed and methodology was outlined in pretty good detail. Seems you weren't too interested in learning anything about it when you wrote this:

The thread's over two years old and the major players are long gone. Forget it.

Gear

[swheeler]

Jim, I don't thing anyone is going to be interested in helping you since you went and convinced a moderator to CLOSE the best thread where this very, exact topic was discussed and methodology was outlined in pretty good detail. Seems you weren't too interested in learning anything about it when you wrote this:

The thread's over two years old and the major players are long gone. Forget it.

Gear

Good point Gear. That kind of makes me wonder about sudden interest and motive now.:popcorn:

[geargnasher]

I think you guys take yourselves way to seriously.

It reminds me of the politicians we keep hearing about that will pounce on their rivals
due to the slightest change in their original statements or posts; or at the slightest hint of
exaggeration in their results.

I'm glad Larry did these tests for himself and I'm glad the other two guys were able to get
the performance they claimed to get.

All the parties involved were shooting different rifles of the same caliber I assume. We all
know that every rifle; even those of the same caliber; will shoot differently. That is exactly why 45 2.1 insists on showing this in a way that you LEARN IT, not just copy a recipe, which won't work with every rifle. Joe could send you some of his Swede ammo and it probably wouldn't shoot as well in your gun unless you knew exactly how and in what way and just how much to adjust the cartridge to work just as well in your rifle, assuming your rifle was basically in good shape (crown, headspace, bore condition, etc.) Do you see? This isn't a "recipe", it's a METHOD, and it's up to the individual to learn and apply the method described to their individual gun. Once you LEARN what you're doing, and that can only be done by experimenting in the right direction as 45 2.1 outlined and then asking questions, you can do it on your own with any appropriate gun. Problem is nobody understands what it is they must understand to do this, it can't be told very easily, because everyone does everything differently, and this only works one way. There is an entirely new knowledge set required to do this, and unless you gain that knowledge firsthand, you most likely aren't even going to be able to copy the method successfully.

Heck; there's a high probability that if Larry were to shoot 45 2.1s gun using all the criteria and receipts that were listed, he still might not get the results they were shooting for simply because there was a small change in the process. (in this case it would be a different shooter) There is a lot more to it even than that. Others can and have shot the groups claimed with guns properly loaded by someone else. It's the loose nut behind the press handle that makes all the difference.

Any time anyone post pics and makes claims like those posted about their successes with their 6.5 Swede HV, of course you're going to be expected to back up your claims. Or, simply learn how to do it yourself, then you can prove it to yourself any time you want.

The only sure way to back them up is to prove it in front of those who have questioned your results. Or teach them how, if they are teachable. If you don't or can't; no matter if you have valid reasons for not being able to do so; it will be difficult to measure your honesty. It take a LOT of honesty to learn how, there is no tolerance for fudging facts with the method talked about here.

The internet is littered with colossal claims. This forum is not exempt from that but, one sure way to shut your detractors up is to prove it in the presence of those who don't believe you. Some of those detractors really wouldn't believe it if they shot those groups themselves with somebody else's gun.

HollowPoint

I'm afraid this has very much been misunderstood from the beginning. Some people have really learned how to shoot cast boolits, out of any decent gun, with amazing accuracy and sometimes, when desired, extremely high velocity. There are little tricks to get around some of the issues that impede accuracy, often different for different cartridges. Some of the basic truths remain the same for all. People are naturally skeptical because they themselves are unable (using traditional, clumsy and imprecise methods) to come close to what has been claimed. Even so-called "experts" can't match it, because they know "too much" to reexamine their entire casting, sizing, and loading routine to pinpoint and eliminate the things causing their relative inaccuracy. There is no magic trick, but there is some rice paper involved. You don't get a blackbelt in shooting cast boolits without some serious work in the footsteps of those who have blazed the trail. Very few, maybe only a handfull, of people here are truly willing to do what it takes to learn about this. The other issue is knowing which trialblazers to follow, and which to ignore.

Gear

[Pat I.]

Maybe you should go reread post #6. Things different now?

[geargnasher]

Maybe you should go reread post #6. Things different now?

Yes, VERY different, you illustrate my more recent posts very well. Back then I was clueless, and doing things much the same way I imagine Larry is, although at the time my results were even worse. Not anymore. This is why I can say that you don't need someone to prove it for you, just learn how to do it yourself. Once I learned why neither Larry nor I could get the Swede to shoot straight, and fixed it, I learned a lot about what he is doing wrong, too.

Gear

[Jim]

Jim, I don't thing anyone is going to be interested in helping you since you went and convinced a moderator to CLOSE the best thread where this very, exact topic was discussed and methodology was outlined in pretty good detail. Seems you weren't too interested in learning anything about it when you wrote this:

The thread's over two years old and the major players are long gone. Forget it.

Gear

If I had any idea my comment would stir up so much trouble and make so many people that angry, I would never have made it. As for the thread getting shut down, I never said a word to anyone suggesting the thread should be shut down.

I'm sorry I caused all this trouble. I'll do my best to mind my own business in the future.

By the way, Gear, the PM you sent me was very diplomatic and maturely presented. The other one I got from somebody else was rather nasty and insulting.

I understand now that this is something I don't need to be involved in, so I'll try to keep my mouth shut.

[Char-Gar]

I have a really nice, full military Swede that I shoot with cast bullets. But there is no way, I would talk about it on this board. Just mention the word "SWEDE" and folks start to square off.

It would seem one cannot just state their expeience and opinions, without coming under some kind of attack for being retarded or backwards. Folks just don't seem to know how to disgree without being disagreeable. Folks have way to much ego invested in this stupid board.

[felix]

I agree, Charles. It's the wording used, and not the subject matter. You can get any gun to shoot as good as the action and rifling will permit with by varying the components until the acceleration curve is best satisfied for the accuracy goal as permitted by the gun. Long boolits and steep twists require diameters such that NO (ideally) gas escapes in error when the trigger is pulled and the boolit entirely exits the muzzle. Tolerances this tight requires utmost attention, and that is why Bobby does not want to be too specific. Entirely my guess. ... felix

[gandydancer]

WOW. I have a model 94 swede. after reading all the posts on here I find out its a dang trouble maker. Time to get rid of it I need no discontent in my gun safe. what if that 6.5x55 starts telling rumors about my 6.5 creedmoore or my 9.3x74R worse yet what if it starts picking on my 250 Donaldson ace? the ace is a very old timer and prone to crying jags. No I can't take the chance the swede is history. now what am I going to do with all that 6.5x55 ammo?

[gandydancer]

If I had any idea my comment would stir up so much trouble and make so many people that angry, I would never have made it. As for the thread getting shut down, I never said a word to anyone suggesting the thread should be shut down.

I'm sorry I caused all this trouble. I'll do my best to mind my own business in the future.

By the way, Gear, the PM you sent me was very diplomatic and maturely presented. The other one I got from somebody else was rather nasty and insulting.

I understand now that this is something I don't need to be involved in, so I'll try to keep my mouth shut.
stick around Jim. you make all this stuff FUN.

[Larry Gibson]

Gear

Since you've learned the trick I'll offer you the exact same thing I, and several others, have offered starmetal and 45 2.1; How about simply demonstrating such accuracy at HV (even the 2200 fps both I and starmetal actually obtained) with a 6.5 Swede? That should be simple enough for one of your abilities, why you might even demonstrate "bughole" accuracy to us at starmetals original claim of 2385 fps? I'm sure a meet could be arranged for the demonstration, I'll even supply an Oehler chronograph so we can double check the velocities. How's about it?

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Jim

I don't recall your involvement in the previous 6.5 thread(s) with regards to it getting locked.....beats me????

Larry Gibson

[waksupi]

Jim had nothing to do with the other thread being closed. I will say again, if you are going to get back into the Swede argument, take it to PM's, email, or another board.

[HollowPoint]

As that great Prophet and Holy-Man, Rodney King once asked, "Can't we all just get along?"

Oh wait; he's dead now. Never mind.

HollowPoint

[Larry Gibson]

Waksupi

Perhaps it's best this thread is locked also. My only intention was to show the velocities I got were what starmetal now says he got. I did not intend it to get carried away again.

Larry Gibson