Trade Rifle .50cal Mould

[Kitika]

G'day,

I'm pretty certain on getting a Lyman Trade Rifle in .50cal as I reckon it'll go great with my Walker:D
It's for primarily target shooting up to 200m but mainly at 100m and less.
The barrel twist is 1-48 so what mould would you recommend out of:

Lee R.E.A.L. .50 250gr
Lee R.E.A.L. .50 320gr
or the lyman maxi 370gr #504617

Has anyone had much success with the above bullets and also do I still need to use a wad of some description with these bullets?

Excuse my questions I've never had or shot a muzzleloader rifle with conicals before.

[thunderthud]

for target shooting I would try patched round ball first. .490 with a .015 patch & lube of your choice should do it. round balls are a lot cheaper and have less recoil than conicals. rb's usually weight in at about 180gr. use pure lead if you are able.

[Maven]

Kitika, Before you purchase a conical or RB mould, see if you can obtain a dozen or so of each projectile you mentioned to see which one your rifle prefers, using maybe 70gr. FFg as a standard? Moreover, as Thunderthud mentioned, .50cal. (.490") swaged roundballs are widely available and suitably patched (.018" pillow tick, which compresses to .016") are likely to be very accurate in your Investarms bbl.

[Omnivore]

I have essentially the same 48" twist 50 cal Investarm barrel in a Deerstalker. So far I've had the best accuracy by far using patched ball, so that's been both my target and my deer hunting load. I'm trying the Lee REAL 250 and 320, but nothing conclusive yet. So far the accuracy is much worse, but I believe with the right load one or the other REAL bullet should perform. Much more testing is in order.

If someone has a pet load for a 50 cal REAL in a 48" twist I'd sure like to know about it also.

Also watch your muzzle crown. If you have the iron ram rod tip that I have, it can and will eventually ding the crown. I'm going to make a brass tip for it, 'cause iron is just a bad idea IMO.

The Trade Rifle looks to be an excellent value, and if I had it to do over, I'd get that one instead. Just watch out for cracking of the stock in the area of the lock mortise, inside and out. There is scant little wood there, and the walnut can be brittle (this is a common bane of sidelock guns in general, but Investarm hogs out a bit more wood than necessary, presumably for easy assembly). In other words; don't get too carried away with heavy loads. I've already repaired mine once.

It would be nice if they'd extend the tang and trigger plate and tie them together, al la Hawken, to reinforce the stock a bit and distribute recoil.

If you want to PM me with your address, I can send you some REAL slugs to try out. You can use your own lube - I believe their intent was to fill all the grooves, which is what I've been doing. I've been using pure lead, which is the norm for a muzzloading BP gun. Plan on spending a lot of time at the range, to really fisk out some loads.

[Kitika]

Being in Western Australia makes it hard to get most firearm related stuff especially when it starts to get more specialized like blackpowder shooting as there aren't many 'smoke' shooters down here! So in the end it is cheaper for me to buy molds direct from the U.S. of A than to try and source bullets here... Sad I know :(
I have seen that lee makes a combo mold of a 320gr r.e.a.l and a round ball so I might go for that if anyone has had any success with the r.e.a.l bullet in the 1-48 barrel.

[Maven]

"... if anyone has had any success with the r.e.a.l bullet in the 1-48 barrel."

Kitika, REAL's can be very accurate in that (and faster) twists if they cast large enough to be engraved by the rifling. Ditto for T/C and Lyman Maxi-Balls. To answer your question directly, I've had success with the REAL in a 1:48 twist T/C Hawken bbl., but it was a .45cal. From a rest it would place 3 - 5 shots touching @ 50yd., which made it the equal of the T/C Maxi-Ball I also cast.

[Omnivore]

Maven; Can you tell us the specific load you're using for the .45 REAL (powder, charge weight, lube, wad verses no wad)? That may give us some clue for a starting load in the .50.

[Maven]

Omnivore, For both the .45cal. Lee REAL and T/C Maxi-Balls (home cast from pure Pb; weight was ~240gr.), I used 60gr. - 80gr. Pyrodex RS (couldn't easily get BP locally then. Still can't.), lubed with T/C Maxi-Ball lube (off-white or tannish, pleasant smelling soft lube applied with my fingers). I later began using a 7/16" tablet backing "wad" over the powder charge and got a slight improvement in 50 yd. grouping. I also damp swabbed the bore after every shot. Today I'd recommend starting with 50gr. Pyro. RS (loose) if you must or 50gr. FFg and T/C or Traditions yellow lube on the projectile. Btw, make sure the wedge or wedges that hold the bbl. in place are tight, but removable. Hope this helps!

[mooman76]

I had good luck shooting Lee reals in a CVA 50 cal with 1-48 twist. I usually shot it 25-50y with 50-60 grains of 2f/ pyrodex. That was with the heavier of the 2. You usually can't push them real hard but some do report good accuracy even with heavy charges.

[Kitika]

What is the max distance you can get from a patched round ball Vs the maxi vs the R.E.A.L? Could I get 300m accurately out of the Conicals or is that just to far?

[mooman76]

I have never shot for that long of a distance with the ML but from what I have heard the RB is not very aerodyamic so it shoots good and smaller distance but accuracy will drop of quick especially much past 100m. Lee's you can't usually push as hard as a maxi but some have worked with them to push them harder. Maxi would probably be your best bet but I think trying to shoot accurately out to 300m with your particular gun is pushing it a might.

[Kitika]

That pretty much answers all my questions! Thanks people :) i'll try out the round balls first and when funds permit I think i'll look for a maxi mold :)

[thunderthud]

Mooman is correct up to 100 yds. rb's are fine and will still hold a group to win a match. after that as he said they fall off drastically and conicals should be used for xtreme long range.

[MaxJon]

That pretty much answers all my questions! Thanks people :) i'll try out the round balls first and when funds permit I think i'll look for a maxi mold :)

Hi Kitika!
Good to see another in the same backyard! haha. I intend on getting a Lyman Great Plains Hunter rifle in .50 cal 1/32 twist. I got a Lyman maxi ball mould the other day off ebay while the AUD is good for buying from the US. (Lyman #504617) I can recommend ebay seller Louis 7152. He has lots of BP/Lyman goodies at great prices, and is great to deal with!! I should have a good supply of bullets cast by the time i get the Lyman GPH Rifle! Good luck if you have not already.
BB7.62

[frontier gander]

70-80gr Pyrodex RS, 250gr REAL, lubed wad "trackofthewolf brand". Hole cutters at 100 yards in our cabelas hawken " same barrel thats on the lyman guns".

Another awesome load is the same as above except a 454gr Lee .500 S&W conical i cast my self.