Beretta 96, Leading

[Lizard333]

Here is what I have got. I am shooting these boolits through a brand new Beretta 96, 40 cal that has less than 300 hundred rounds through it. I am using WW's for my lead, and am using Orange Magic as my lube. The boolit I am shooting is an RCBS 10mm 170-SWC, and I am sizing them to 401. I am using 4.5 gns of 231 and seating them to a depth of 1.125. I am water dropping my boolits as well.

Now, I am not even a 100% sure it was even leading but where I found it was directly in front of where the boolit is fired from and it was clean pretty quick after that. It was in the forcing cone I guess, but because this is a semi-auto, I don't know if that is the same thing.

I am using the Fryxell handbook as a reference here. It says that fire lapping can fix this. What this is I have no clue.

Now here is why I wonder if it really was leading. After firing a hundred rounds, no accuracy issues, I fired 50 rounds of some Berry's 155 gn Hollow Base Round Nose bullets through and the barrel was completely clean. Now I know Berry's bullets are essentially lead bullets with a very thin layer of copper on them, with by no means a "jacket", so I have to wonder if there was leading at all. I wouldn't think that the berry's bullet would be able to swag my barrel clean if there was actual leading.

So I guess this is where I am at. This is the first time I have ever shot lead through a brand new gun. Of the three hundred rounds that have gone through this gun, 100 were jacketed, and 200 hundred were the Berry's. Do I need to try this "Fire Lapping", or do I need to just bight the bullet so to say and run some more jacket rounds through this barrel and smooth it more. I get the feeling it is just so new that the barrel hasn't been broken in yet, and maybe I need to try fire lapping. If this is the case, can you please let me know what to do. This is perplexing to say the least. I hope I gave you all the information you would need.

[MtGun44]

If it didn't continue to build up and didn't affect accuracy, and didn't cause lot of work to
remove it, I would call if 'fouling' and pretty much ignore it.

Bill

[Gswain]

If it didn't continue to build up and didn't affect accuracy, and didn't cause lot of work to
remove it, I would call if 'fouling' and pretty much ignore it.

Bill

After experiencing fouling in my 1911 I couldn't agree with this statement more. If it doesnt make you start inventing new swear words, its not fouling :roll:

[gray wolf]

You have what YOU think is a problem,
I don't think it's a leading problem the way most people look at leading.
But it is something, I say that because it bothered you.
Typically leading in the first 2" or so of a pistol barrel would indicate to small of a bullet,
leading near the muzzle would indicate you ran out of lube. From what you are saying you have none of the above. Your Beretta 96 like my wife's has no forcing cone. They are found on revolvers at the beginning of the barrel just after the cylinder. It is as the name implies--a cone.
It aids the bullet from the cylinder into the barrel.
In your case you have a chamber that holds the complete bullet, the case mouth comes to rest at the end of the chamber, (look in the chamber and see the little ridge at the end of it )
After that the rifling begins. some rifling starts right at the end of the chamber ( no lead )
some rifling starts a little further out past the rifling 1/32 perhaps a 1/16 that is the lead to the rifling. From your description The rifling was clean and only right at the very front was your problem area. A SWC bullet has a sharp shoulder, and your barrel could have very little lead before the rifling begins. If the bullet shoulder is smashing into the rifling it could be causing small amount of lead to be braking off and building up at the front of the chamber,
educated guess on this.
Take your barrel out and drop a factory round into it and see how it looks in relation to the back of the barrel, how it seats in the chamber. Then try it with a lead re-load. Does it stick out any further ? if in doubt mark the lead with a sharpie pen just after the case mouth, put it in the
chamber and lightly tap the back of the bullet with the end of your middle finger
( dummy round if possible ) Just enough to make sure it is seated, we are not trying to pound the bullet into the chamber. Remove the bullet and see if the bullet shoulder has any marks on it,
If it does then seat the bullet a tad deeper, just enough to not have it stick in the chamber and not leave any marks. I can seat long in our Beretta but I don't shoot a SWC.
1.125 is kind of a standard seat dept for a 40, but I bet that wasn't for a lead bullet with a sharp shoulder. Try this first and report back. Fire lapping is not indicated in your case, and your description does not seem to conclude that fire lapping would be needed.
Fire lapping is a proses that uses lead bullets that are impregnated with mild abrasive, they are fired at a low velocity in an effort to smooth a rough barrel. I don't think you have one.
You should have slugged your bore to make sure .401 is the correct size for your barrel
That is a standard thing to do. If your barrel is in fact .400 then .401/.4015 would be indicated.
Also how are you crimping ? are you using a Lee factory crimp die ? over crimping and or a FCD
can reduce the size of your bullet. Not a bad idea to load a dummy round and pull the bullet,
measure it and see if it's the same size as when you loaded it. I also didn't see how hot your load is, I am not familiar with that powder. What do you think your velocity is ?
A 40 can be a little tricky to load lead bullets. Powder choice is important as to the burn rate.
I load very soft loads for Julie, 3.8-or 4 grains of tite group powder under a 175 grain TC bullet, Soft load, accurate and the pistol functions fine. I use 45/45/10 for the tumble lube.
I have said a lot to your question but only because you seem to have a need to know, as well you should. I would not fire copper over lead or lead over copper. If your going to shoot lead clean all the copper out first, shooting copper, clean all the lead out first.
So there are some little things to ponder.
But as the guy's said in the other post--you are probly doing fine.


Sam

[dakotashooter2]

My guess is that it may be lube. I use a soft lube in my 96 which makes the barrel look bad but does not affect accuracy. I just run a dry brush through evey few mags and the barrel is clean as a whistle.

[Lizard333]

The rounds drop right in, like a factory round. That is one of the first things I check when loading a new round. I am using a Dillon 550B reloading this round. So I am using the taper crimp that came with the Dillon dies. Dummy round was pulled and I am not sizing the boolit. I will change the powder load and try another combination.

[Wally]

I have a Taurus 99AF that leads badly..but it isn't all that accuarte anyway so the leading doesn't really affect accuracy. I've tried different lubes, loads, bullet sizes--makes no difference. I have found a tight patch on a jag tip will remove the leading very easily, so it is no big deal. I could cure the problem using a GC bullet but haven't felt the need to do so. After a few clip full of rounds I merely wipe out the barrel with the patch and all is well again...takes just seconds.

[gray wolf]

I posted the info that I did with a little tongue and cheek. As I said when I ended my post
I was inclined to agree with the folks that said " keep shooting and don't worry about it "
Like I do in many of my post I try to include info that could be helpful to someone else also.
That being said, the OP keeps talking about his barrel--
but in fact does not say his barrel was leaded. He talks about some kind of anomaly just forward
of the chamber.


I am not even a 100% sure it was even leading but where I found it was directly in front of where the boolit is fired from

[Lizard333]

I almost wish I hadn't shot the plated bullets after I shot my lead because I could have taken a patch down the barrel and see exactly what it was. I think before I change my load I am going to try another hundred rounds and take a cleaning patch down the barrel and see what ends up on the patch. If is just fowling and dirty I couldn't care less. If it is leading than I can burn that bridge when I get there.

[9.3X62AL]

Good plan, 333. Your load of "4.5 x 231" is fairly moderate--I use 4.8 x 231 to duplicate my carry loads (WW Ranger SXT 180s), and the Lee 175 TC with OAL @1.135". A Beretta 96 was my first 40 S&W, and it ran cast boolits VERY well. My sized diameter was/is .401" also. Alloy was/is 92/6/2, lube is Javelina Alox 50/50. 4.8 grains of 231 gave/gives about 935-950 FPS in the Beretta and the CZ-75B, about 900-920 in the Glock 23.

Short answer......I think yer on the right track. If you're concerned about new barrel blues, run 300 j-words through the critter. I usually do that with most of my new guns anyway--at least 50 factory rounds first, so if something REALLY JACKED UP takes place the gunmaker has fewer legs to stand on, then 250 J-words just to smoothe out the barrel metal. Most of my handguns seldom see another jacketed bullet during their lifetimes.

[Lizard333]

This gun was just purchased. I have a beretta 92 that has probly 10000 jacket rounds through it before it ever saw any lead. I size those to 357 and the barrel is clean as a whistle. This one only got a 100 jacketed factory rounds before I put reloads through it. I think I just have go put more rounds thru it and see what happens. It will break my heart, but I'll do what I have to do :-)

[gray wolf]

I think I just have go put more rounds thru it and see what happens. It will break my heart, but I'll do what I have to do

Now hold on a Sec. --You may not have to, you can always do it but you may not have to do it first thing.
Clean the barrel like spotless, load up 100 rounds of lead and go shoot.
Drop the hammer on 20, lock the slide back and patch the barrel and look for lead. after you patch it put a clean patch against the breach face to reflect the light. ( so you see better )
if no lead--keep shooting--if only a light smear--shoot ten more and so on. If in doubt that in may just be powder or lube residue then use a little solvent and patch again.
A barrel that is leaded is easy to spot. Also easy to deal with.
Have you been told about Chore Boy all copper scrub pads ?
Must be all copper no steel coated copper If in doubt use a magnet.
A few strands around an old brush will UN-lead the worst barrel and not harm it.
Lets establish if you have leading or just fowling. I still don't agree with the ruff barrel.
Not yet anyway.

[Wally]

One can aslo use a jag tip with a cloth patch and a square inch of aluminum flyscreen---this works even faster than the Chore Boy technique. The aluminum will not scratch the barrel...it ismuch too soft...softer than cooper.

[Lizard333]

One can aslo use a jag tip with a cloth patch and a square inch of aluminum flyscreen---this works even faster than the Chore Boy technique. The aluminum will not scratch the barrel...it ismuch too soft...softer than cooper.

This is something new. I have heard about the chore boy, but hear it could be hard to find and that you may get some looks like you may be a crack-head. But buying aluminum screen material, I don't think I would get funny looks at all!! Plus, I would imagine a roll of this screen material would last a lifetime!!

[gray wolf]

The screen is new to me also, I have been told that pieces of brass screen work.
As for the chore boy--I bought a pack of two and they last a long, long time.
I would say that anyone that needs more than a 6" square of screen in a 6 month shooting cycle
Has a fairly big leading problem.
If a guy is working out some problems it's nice to have a way to remove the lead while the problem is being worked out.

[Wally]

I have been using aluminum screening for years..it works superbly... The only thing better is the Outers Foul Out.