Neck Size 45 Colt / Cowboy Dies

[H110]

I have been neck sizing only my 45 colts. For you guys that also do this how many firings do you get before extraction just gets too sticky and you have to full size?

Also do the cowboy dies actually size the case down less than regular 45 colt dies. All mine have sloppy chambers. I load lead exclusively and maybe the cowboy dies offer some benefit!

Who makes cowboy dies besides RCBS?

[shooting on a shoestring]

I've been neck sizing my .45 Colt loads for my Blackhawk for probably 5 years or so, never had to full length size. Of course I knock them out one at a time, where as a Redhawk pushes out 6, so that 6x drag might be more of an issue.

I don't drive mine to ragged edge, so I've never had any sticky extraction. I can't see that I'll ever need to full length size unless I want to run the brass in a different revolver.

[Irascible]

Just to proove that neck sizing/partial sizing is a good idea, Redding has just introduced carbide dies with two different size rings. A larger one for the base of the case with a smaller one for the neck area. It aint cheap and I don't know if it will work any better than my practice of backing the sizing die off 2 turns, but it is nice to know the proffessionals are thinking the same way.
My son tried backing his die off for his SASS cowboy guns and found it worked great in his Rugers, but would not chamber in his Cimarron 1873. You can't win them all!

[MtGun44]

Because .45 Colt is not a straight case, it is tapered. Now some modern guns are straight
reamed, and most dies are straight reamed, but when they drop into the commonly found
tapered chamber, the rear end rattles around.

This, I'm pretty sure, is what Redding is dealing with by bringing out the dual carbide
die set. I use an old RCBS tapered die set in steel and lube cases. Cases fit my guns
much better.

Bill

[Wally]

I have a Ruger Blackhawk--the chambers are oversized as well. Sizing a fired case in a RCBS carbide die I have found them to be a very loose fit. I bought an RCBS steel szier die and found it sizes the case as a bottle neck--the mouth of the case is sized by about 3/8"--the rest of the case is sized much less. One does need to lube the cases when using it. Or one can neck size with a carbide sizer die--just lower the ram handle enough to size the first 3/8" or so...I have done so but frankly I could never do so consistently and that will vary the case length which messes up ones bullet seating & crimping. I now use the steel sizer die and all is very well.

[9.3X62AL]

I've recently gone the route taken by Wally and Mtn Gun, and acquired a steel 45 Colt sizer die by RCBS. The RCBS tungsten-carbide sizer in the 45 Colt die set grossly undersizes the cases (.469"), and may see new life as a 45 ACP sizer die. The RCBS ACP T/C sizer reduces cases to .467", then the expander spud opens them up --leaving a distinct "Coke bottle" effect to the cases. This can't be good for case lifespan.

[MtGun44]

Interesting idea on the .45 ACP reuse for more reasonable dimensions. Sounds like a
great idea. A lot of interesting things can be done, once we figure out exactly what it is
all about.

Ask folks that shoot and load if the .45 LC is straight or tapered. My bet is that 95% or
more think it is straight.

Bill

[H110]

Bill, how long you been reloading? Just curious!

[Wally]

I've recently gone the route taken by Wally and Mtn Gun, and acquired a steel 45 Colt sizer die by RCBS. The RCBS tungsten-carbide sizer in the 45 Colt die set grossly undersizes the cases (.469"), and may see new life as a 45 ACP sizer die. The RCBS ACP T/C sizer reduces cases to .467", then the expander spud opens them up --leaving a distinct "Coke bottle" effect to the cases. This can't be good for case lifespan.

I tried this--the .45 Colt RCBS Carbide sizer will not size the .45 ACP cases down small enough to work...

[bigboredad]

for those that are using the rcbs steel die are you using current production dies or older dies like MTGun44. I've tried the neck sizing but I shoot 4 different .45's and that doesn't go so well. I may be checking the redding dies out a little more seriously

[9.3X62AL]

I tried this--the .45 Colt RCBS Carbide sizer will not size the .45 ACP cases down small enough to work...

.002" of difference makes things a "no-go"? I'll try it with a couple case makes 'small-scale', and see how it goes. Thanks for the heads-up, in any event.

[white eagle]

I used to buy Redding dies exclusively NO MORE
their dies ruined my brass I even sent my bass to them along with an explanation
of the problem
they decided I didn't quite know what I was doing and told me some pat answer and sent me on my way
well I sent them on their way as well
Never will I but anything Redding
sorry bout the rant
and as for the neck or partial sizing I to have not had the best luck with it
so I quit doing it

[MtGun44]

I first reloaded in 1966. So that is 45 yrs now. Lotta primers expended since then.

Messed up my very first reload, too. Got Rem large primers for my 7x57, but in those
days they just marked them with a number, no 'rifle' or 'pistol' designation on the box.
I was ignorant and bought pistol primers. Loaded up 5 rounds. First shot with my nice
new Mauser 1895 and it bit me. WHAT THE HECK?? My thumb was real sore after
the first shot, couldn't quite figure it out. Second shot, another mighty whack on my
right thumb!!!! And the bolt popped itself open when I lifted the bolt. WHATTT???

Looked at the case this time. Primer was punctured, firing pin and striker were driving
back hard due to the gas coming thru the pierced primer and whacking my thumb, and
recocking the gun. . . . . . OOOPS. Stopped, turned tail and went home. Pulled the
other three and got the correct primers.

I've been doing better since. :bigsmyl2:


Bill

[H110]

Bill, wish I had your knowledge. If it's O.K. I may PM you with a question or two ever so often. Buy the way I messed up my first reload too. Loaded a 9mm, screwed the crimp die down to the shell holder and the seater down to what I thought was about right. Boy this thing looked terrible (crushed, bulging, ETC), I still have that first round setting on my bench just as a reminder, BE CAREFUL and if you don't know ASK!

Thanks for your willingness too share your wisdom!

By the way Bill, If my memory serves me correctly you have a BFR 45-70 is that correct? I am going to purchase one shortly. I will get with you when the time comes for some advise.

[MtGun44]

Nope. You are probably thinking about 44man, big BFR guy.

Feel free to ask away, I may even know the answer sometimes, I've made a
bunch of mistakes over the years that you won't have to make if you
ask. :-)

Plus there are many folks here that know more than I do. I know most
about .45 ACP 1911s, then .44 revolvers, and then revolvers in general.

Cast in rifles, I've done a good bit but still learning from the real experts
here. Significantly different game from pistols, but not entirely different.

Bill

[H110]

Yep I'm thinking of 44man you are correct.

I do have a question, If you were going to by a 45 acp in the 1911 type platform which one would you prefer? Note: I would keep her for life so, I want a good one.

[Char-Gar]

Count me among those who have gone back to an old steel RCBS sizer and no longer use the carbide sizer for 45 Colt loads. Life is much better this way.

H110.. A few years ago, I found myself without a 1911 pistol and wanted to buy just one more to see me on out. I chose a Colt Government Model. I swapped out the flat plastic mainspring housing for an arched steel one and the plastic trigger for a short steel one. I am very happy with my choice.

I also picked up a pair of Norinco 1911A1s for knock around pistols. Good hanguns..not fancy..but good.

[H110]

All you that are using the RCBS steel sizer's what case dimensions are you getting at the neck, at the head and at about the middle of the case? In other words is it sizing straight or with a taper. I just bought a Cowboy set of RCBS's and they size exactly to the same dimensions as the standard RCBS carbides, (.468.5). The only difference is the crimp die is opened up a little more and does not swag down a .454 boolit like the die in the standard set. Just a note, my Redding carbide sizer in 45 colt sizes to (.470).

[Wally]

All you that are using the RCBS steel sizer's what case dimensions are you getting at the neck, at the head and at about the middle of the case? In other words is it sizing straight or with a taper. I just bought a Cowboy set of RCBS's and they size exactly to the same dimensions as the standard RCBS carbides, (.468.5). The only difference is the crimp die is opened up a little more and does not swag down a .454 boolit like the die in the standard set. Just a note, my Redding carbide sizer in 45 colt sizes to (.470).

The neck of the case is sized more then the rest of it so the case tapers at 3/8" from the edge of the case mouth....the base of the case is sized far less with a steel sizer vs the carbide. I had an old steel sizer for the .44 Mag that did the same thing. Resized cases easily chamber in my Ruger Blackhawk.

[Char-Gar]

Once fired Buffalo Bore stamped unsized 45 Colt case measures as below. It was fired in a Ruger BH

.481 base, .
.479 mid-point
.479 at the mouth.

After sizing in my vintage RCBS steel dies gives

.479 base
.476 mid-point
.472 at the mouth.
Inside diameter of case mouth: .450

Just for fun, I ran the same case through an RCBS carbide sizer and got

.475 base
.468 mid-point
.467 at the mouth
Inside diameter of the case mouth is now .446

The RCBS expander opens us in ID of case mouth to .451 and puts a bell. I have no trouble seating a .452 or .454 cast bullet without distorting the bullet.

This is a Buffalo Bore head stamped 45 Colt Case.

The case sized in the steel sizer chambers without issue in both my Colt New Service and Ruger BH. It is a much better fit than the cases sized with a carbide sizer.

I bought my first carbide sizer (Lyman 38/357) in 1965 and thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now that I am older and hopefully wiser I have gone back to steel dies. I only load 200 at a time, so lubing and cleaning is not a big issue to me.

The steel die works the brass less, gives a better fit to the revolver charge hole and IMHO gives better accuracy.

[H110]

Thanks Chargar. Good to know. I am going to buy a new RCBS steel and now I can compare.

Randy

[Char-Gar]

My die was made in the late 50's. I make no assertions about what current production RCBS or other makes specifications are. Good luck in your reloading.

[MtGun44]

Mine is old also, but bought used so no way to know how old. I just bought it cheap on
eBay taking the chance it was tapered and won out. No idea what RCBS is making now.

That is why my original post said "OLD RCBS steel die"

Bill

[MtGun44]

H110,

If you can come up with the money, the Dan Wesson 1911s are absolutely the very best
bargain out there. They are PERFECTLY fitted and set up, not an exaggeration. Their
competition is really the Baer, Wilson, etc semi-custom 1911s, which are in the $2600-$3500
range. The DWs are in the $1000-1400 range, depending. HALF PRICE!

Lots of workmanlike 1911s out there, but when you said
"Note: I would keep her for life so, I want a good one. " - buy the DW and
cry once, and love it the rest of your life. I mean it. Got a bunch of 1911s, and
the DW is the best of them all in out-of-the-box fit, accuracy and just being perfect.

Bill