My 1906 Highwall

[David todd]

Howdy!
I'm a new member here, am new to cast and smokeless,but certainly not new to cast bullet shooting with black powder.
I recently bought this beautiful highwall from an older gentleman who cannot shoot it anymore.
it was built in 1906 ( I have the letter of authenticity from Cody) with a straight stock, and restocked in 1954 in Ontario.

The barrel is the original #4 taper, and it has an original single set trigger.

I also have the original loading tool that came with it, and two molds.

I have shot quite a few groups of less than 1" at 100 with it using H4198 and the 12X Unertl, but I now have some 4759, so hopefully things will get tighter.
Last evening I managed a 1" at 100 with the irons, but this is all benched.
Load was 17 grains of 4759 with 315 grain flat bases bullet, lubed with a Mathews recipe, dacron wad and a candle wax top wad.
Primer was a WLR.
David
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/WinHI-Wall3855.jpg

[Doc Highwall]

Nice rifle David, what caliber is it?

[David todd]

Nice rifle David, what caliber is it?
:oops: D'OH!!
Sorry, it's a 38/55 , dunno the twist, but the bore is in great shape!
David

[ph4570]

Welcome David. That is a nice looking shooter.

My wife has a high wall in 38-55 that shoots well.

[leadman]

Beautiful rifle. One should be proud to one her.

[littlejack]

David:
Welcome to the CastBoolits.
Very nice rifle, and very nice scope.
If I were to only shoot trget with my Uberti Hiwall, I would invest in one of those Unertl's.
Jack

[David todd]

David:
Welcome to the CastBoolits.
Very nice rifle, and very nice scope.
If I were to only shoot trget with my Uberti Hiwall, I would invest in one of those Unertl's.
Jack

Jack, thanks for the welcome, this is a very good site!
FWIW, I'm mainly an irons shooter, and also hunt more with irons than optics!:-D
However, I do have some scopes on my modern rifles that I do not shoot cast with.
other than that, I bought the whole rig because of the killer deal i got, and the fact I have a soft spot for return to battery type scopes!:mrgreen:

Gonna be rockin' the irons tomorrow , however!:bigsmyl2:
David

[bigted]

david... first off welcome. and might i say what a cool shooter!!! how much does she weigh? also what is your bp load? ive got a browning high wall almost done that is different then yours only in the ....ah heck...its different completely...lol...but 38-55 for sure...heavy #4 taper octagon.

[Bullshop]

A 315gn boolit? Do you happen to know the twist? I wounder if I may impose upon you and ask if you might put up a pic of the boolit or mold or both. One more tiny little thingy please! Would you measure a boolit and tell the length.
I know , picky picky picky! I just cant help it I just have to know this stuff.
Any idea who made the barrel?
Oh my goodness! I got so excited thinking about this stuff I forgot my manners. Welcome!

[David todd]

david... first off welcome. and might i say what a cool shooter!!! how much does she weigh? also what is your bp load? ive got a browning high wall almost done that is different then yours only in the ....ah heck...its different completely...lol...but 38-55 for sure...heavy #4 taper octagon.

Howdy and thanks!
I haven't shot black out of this rifle yet, and in fact it has not seen any black powder since the third owner bought it in 1952!
he shot only 4759 out of it , and was a member of the Canadian Single Shot Shooting Society - he stapled his membership card to the ammo/tool box when he sent the rifle!:D
However, when I do shoot black ( and it IS gonna happen!) I'll use a different breech seater , and slightly bell the case mouth so that the bullet just goes in, or
I may just use pre-made ammo as well, and then it will be with a compressed charge of FFG with a grease cookie and a bees wax base wad for the bullet.

I also have too make a decision on whether or not I am going to restore this rifle.
if that happens, the shuetzen butt stock will come off, and a
shotgun style from Treebone carving will go on - it was originally shipped with a straight stock!
However, it is such a great job I may leave it as is, Ii have the name of the smith who built the butt stock for the fella I bough the rifle from , he had it done in 1954!:D
David

[David todd]

A 315gn boolit? Do you happen to know the twist? I wounder if I may impose upon you and ask if you might put up a pic of the boolit or mold or both. One more tiny little thingy please! Would you measure a boolit and tell the length.
I know , picky picky picky! I just cant help it I just have to know this stuff.
Any idea who made the barrel?
Oh my goodness! I got so excited thinking about this stuff I forgot my manners. Welcome!
Thanks for the welcome!
Here are the pics you requested, I also have the original loading tool that was originally shipped with the rifle.
The smaller mold is also original to the rifle, and is a 255 grain mopld stamped with the Winchester name.
My battery on my vernier is dead, so i will not be able to give you dimmensions of the bullets until tomorrow- sorry!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/winchester%20tools/Winchestermold.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/winchester%20tools/Winchester3855loadingtool.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/winchester%20tools/idealwinchestermolds.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/winchester%20tools/idealmold.jpg
The name Secord was the second owner of the rifle.
David

[Doc Highwall]

This is how history class should be taught!

[David todd]

Hookay, I've got the boolit data!:-D
The 315 is 1.117 long.
The front band is .369, and the base is .377
The lighter, shorter bullet ( 255) is .950 long, and the front band is .374, and the base is .379.
Stand by for photos - we was ROCKIN' THE IRONS TODAY!![smilie=w:
First group - 5 shots with one dropped a bit low.
It actually cut my first bullet that I used as a fouler at the start of the session, there are FOUR in the upper cluster!!
These were with the 315 grain bullets, group size is 1 1/4"
The one high and right , and the ones barely visible are from different groups .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/winchester%20tools/5shotsat100irons315.jpg
5 shots with the irons and the 255 grain bullets, using the irons. 1.5"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/winchester%20tools/5shots100irons315.jpg
This was the first group I shot with the gun , using H4198 and the 255 grain bullets, and scope.
21 grains of H4198IIRC, I'll have to check. The three shots ar 7/8" center to center.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/winchester%20tools/3shots100H4198scope.jpg
All groups were at 100 yards.
I think I'm ready to go offhand, with a bit of a zeroing change!

David

[Bullshop]

The molds are interesting. The lighter one looks pretty much the same as a standard offering from Lyman. I have the Lyman version. It will drop at .379" to .380" depending on alloy.
The other longer one I have not used or ever had one of that design. It looks to be a two diameter I assume for breach seating.
I have a 38/55 on a Rem roller and breach seat a 300gn tapered design that is pleasantly accurate. I used it in one of the postal matches member Waksupi used to run. Shooting bench rest I managed a 3/4" 10 shot 100 yard group for the win in that match.
Most younger shooters have no idea of the level of accuracy these old single shot target rifles are capable of. I think the Roland/Pope group held the world record for about 70 years. I think it was 20 shots at 40 rods (220 yards) in roughly 3/4" shooting PB boolits. I may be wrong on the exact detail there but it was some incredible shooting.
I once had an A. O. Zischang 32/40 on a Sharps Borchardt but never had a chance to use it. Had some financial problems that the sale of the rifle solved. I sold it to a high level competitor from Florida. I followed the scores he was making with it for a while but quit because it only made me feel worse about it.
Enjoy that rifle and use it for what it was intended. I hate to see non shooting collectors get them and put them behind glass never to be used again.
Oh BTW is that a 1/18" twist.

[Gunlaker]

Very nice! It looks like it shoots quite well too!

I just acquired an 1885 (made in 1893) Winchester Special Single Shot target rifle from a collector in Ontario. It has a left handed schuetzen style butt with a swiss butt plate, single set trigger, anf a 30" part octagon #4 barrel. It's chambered in .32-40. interestingly I was reading Campbells second book, and found a photo of this actual rifle in there!

I have not idea how well it'll shoot, but the rifling is bright and shiny with no pitting. Unfortunately somewhere along the line someone has "injured" the chamber, it's got a groove in there that is way too deep to polish out. I had it out for the first time today shooting loads of Fg and "store bought" cast bullets. I expected that the groove in the chamber would likely prevent extraction, but the low pressure of the load combined with the location of the damage in the chamber resulted in perfectly normal extraction.

Next step is to order a mould.

Chris.

[David todd]

The molds are interesting. The lighter one looks pretty much the same as a standard offering from Lyman. I have the Lyman version. It will drop at .379" to .380" depending on alloy.
The other longer one I have not used or ever had one of that design. It looks to be a two diameter I assume for breach seating.
I have a 38/55 on a Rem roller and breach seat a 300gn tapered design that is pleasantly accurate. I used it in one of the postal matches member Waksupi used to run. Shooting bench rest I managed a 3/4" 10 shot 100 yard group for the win in that match.
Most younger shooters have no idea of the level of accuracy these old single shot target rifles are capable of. I think the Roland/Pope group held the world record for about 70 years. I think it was 20 shots at 40 rods (220 yards) in roughly 3/4" shooting PB boolits. I may be wrong on the exact detail there but it was some incredible shooting.
I once had an A. O. Zischang 32/40 on a Sharps Borchardt but never had a chance to use it. Had some financial problems that the sale of the rifle solved. I sold it to a high level competitor from Florida. I followed the scores he was making with it for a while but quit because it only made me feel worse about it.
Enjoy that rifle and use it for what it was intended. I hate to see non shooting collectors get them and put them behind glass never to be used again.
Oh BTW is that a 1/18" twist.
Yup, the molds are two diameter, and i do breach seat them.:>)
I have seen the Roland/ Pope group and accompanying story in Ned Robert's Single shot breach loading rifle book - simply stunning , and the look on the young fellas faces this morning was priceless when they looked through my spotting scope !:p
I too hate to see old rifles kept as safe queens, they should be shot!:mrgreen:
David

[Bent Ramrod]

Your second mould is probably the Ideal 375300, which was designed to be breech-seated in the throat or leade of unmodified factory rifles. It was a more "user friendly" version of the Ideal 375272 Hudson bullet, which was used the same way but was slightly larger and needed the leade specially reamed out.

That's a very nice outfit you have, and all the more interesting because the old rifleman's "stuff" was kept together with the gun.

[David todd]

Very nice! It looks like it shoots quite well too!

I just acquired an 1885 (made in 1893) Winchester Special Single Shot target rifle from a collector in Ontario. It has a left handed schuetzen style butt with a swiss butt plate, single set trigger, anf a 30" part octagon #4 barrel. It's chambered in .32-40. interestingly I was reading Campbells second book, and found a photo of this actual rifle in there!

I have not idea how well it'll shoot, but the rifling is bright and shiny with no pitting. Unfortunately somewhere along the line someone has "injured" the chamber, it's got a groove in there that is way too deep to polish out. I had it out for the first time today shooting loads of Fg and "store bought" cast bullets. I expected that the groove in the chamber would likely prevent extraction, but the low pressure of the load combined with the location of the damage in the chamber resulted in perfectly normal extraction.

Next step is to order a mould.
Chris.
That's too cool to not only have unique rifle like that , but to find a photo of the same one in a book![smilie=w:

I'll have to look to see if I can find a number on the mold, BR, it may very well be....
David

[David todd]

Your second mould is probably the Ideal 375300, which was designed to be breech-seated in the throat or leade of unmodified factory rifles. It was a more "user friendly" version of the Ideal 375272 Hudson bullet, which was used the same way but was slightly larger and needed the leade specially reamed out.

That's a very nice outfit you have, and all the more interesting because the old rifleman's "stuff" was kept together with the gun.

I just checked the mold, BR, and it is stamped 375272 308

I was told that this particular mold was built for breach seating by the gentleman I got the rifle from....
David

[Iowa Fox]

Nice Rifle! I have a low wall in 22K Hornet, the serial dates the action to 1886. It was built by a fellow by the name of Don Whitson (spelling) in Davenport, Ia. long deceased now.

[Southern Son]

Dave, others have already said it (many times), but that is a stunning rifle. Absolutely stunning. Oh, and welcome, this is a great site and no matter what question you have, someone here will almost certainly be able to point you in the right direction.

[Michael Petrov]

Nice rifle, have you tried it without any wads?

Thought you might enjoy seeing this picture, from A.O. Niedner's photo album.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/mjpetrov/img284.jpg

[David todd]

Nice rifle, have you tried it without any wads?

Thought you might enjoy seeing this picture, from A.O. Niedner's photo album.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/mjpetrov/img284.jpg

Well now, ain't that sumthin'!!![smilie=l:
Who woulda thunk it!
great pic, love looking at the old rifles, for sure!
I have shot it without the wax wad, and noticed no difference really, MAYBE a bit tighter without, but I have not fired it without the Kapoc yet.
David

[Michael Petrov]

I learned that less is better and anytime you can do away with wads, kapok or whatever the better. I will say that with 4759 and a softer alloy bullet the coarse grains of 4759 have a way of deforming the base of the bullet.

Lots of help on the net, as someone I know says "Relax were all experts". Just so you know I have at least seen a schuetzen rifle, I shot this yesterday.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/mjpetrov/img285a.jpg