H110 and Extreme Spreads

[H110]

You guys tell me if i'm on the right track.

45 Colt in a Ruger Redhawk, 4.20 inch barrel. I started at 22.0 grains of H-110 and worked up in 3/10 of a grain increments to 24.3 grains. Bullet 255 grain cast, primer CCI350, firm roll crimp and good case tension.

Throughout this entire range spreads were all over the place, some as high as 150 FPS. I could get three or four shots out of 6 pretty close and then get one extremely low. I don't like this and have never had these problems with this powder before in other platforms.

Here's what I'm thinking. Due to the case volume in the 45 colt bullet weight is to light, maybe need to go up to at least 270 grain or above. Barrel length 4", however I don't know that this would be a particular issue due to the fact it doesn't change in length from shot to shot. Primer, I have always used a Magnum primer with magnum loads, could this be the issue, surely not to this extreme.

There are no signs of pressure. I know pressure signs in revolvers are not reliable but I have found case head expansion to be a pretty good indicator over the years and they are O.K.

I know I am not getting efficient ignition or burn for some reason and I am not seeing allot of unburnt powder. Just a side note I am shooting 22 grains with same bullet and same primer in a Marlin 94 with spreads of around 30 FPS.

What do you think?

[44MAG#1]

I've shot quite a few of the RCBS 270 SAA bullet over 24 gr of H110 and a Winchester LP Primer. You will be okay with that combo especially with the CCI350 primer.
With a 255 and 22 to 23 gr H110/W296 you will get wide spreads and if you will chrono 6 with the powder in the front of the case and 6 with the powder to the rear you will be surprised at the two averages.
I have settled on 19 gr 2400 as being a more stable load with none of the attendant mood swings of the H110/W296 loads.
I am sure I will be corrected on this quite rapidly. But I will say this if you don't believe me just try it then get back to me on it.
Just for giggles go on down to 20 gr with the 255 and try it.

[Bass Ackward]

Really the wrong powder for that light of a bullet and pressure range unless you take it on up and fill the case. Quickload calls it about 17k. Should clear up around 24-26 grains. Try a standard primer when ES settles down.

There are a ton of variables that can make it work better or worse depending on what you are doing exactly like size, hardness etc, but they can't be diagnosed over a monitor. Take it on up.

[44man]

Change to a Fed 150 primer and then get back to us.

[H110]

Really the wrong powder for that light of a bullet and pressure range unless you take it on up and fill the case. Quickload calls it about 17k. Should clear up around 24-26 grains. Try a standard primer when ES settles down.

There are a ton of variables that can make it work better or worse depending on what you are doing exactly like size, hardness etc, but they can't be diagnosed over a monitor. Take it on up.

Pressure of 17K. I don't know but I can tell you High velocity is at around 1350 and I would think that the pressure it takes to generate that velocity would be higher than 17K. I mean, am I wrong here!

[H110]

Although I only saw 1320 to 1350 FPS twice. Most were at about 1250.

[tek4260]

I agree that the charge is a bit light for the amount of case volume you have shooting that light of a boolit. I shoot 24gr behind a 307gr HP and 23 behind a 325gr Keith. I am in the process of trying standard primers, but I have had great results with CCI350's.

Here is a 25 and 93 yard 5 shot group with that 23g load.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/101_1281.jpg


For a 255gr cast, I would use HS-6 or maybe 4227

[Bass Ackward]

That concerned me so I went to Hodgdon. They didn't load lead at this level and didn't use H-110 when they went to standard Colt level loads.

250 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H110 .452" 1.600"

Start: 25.7 1398 27,000 CUP Max 26.5 1455 29,800 CUP

[H110]

Bass Ackward, you may be correct with your first post the more I think about it. If I decide to shoot H110 with this weight of bullet (I probably Won't) I will ease her up a little and see if things start to settle down. Do you or anyone else have an opinion on the minimum weight of bullet you would feel comfortable with loading on top of H110 in this application? I also think the short barrel does play a role and would probably need a bit more powder to get the pressure up where it needs to be.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR AND EVERYONE ELSE'S HELP!!

[Larry Gibson]

Bass is/was correct. That is too light a bullet for H110 to burn efficiently in that short barrel. That load does better in the marlin because there is not the long cylinder throats and no venting as occurs at the barrel/cy,inder gap. The rifle barrel allows a quicker and probably higher build up of pressure and sustains it longer to facilitate efficient ignition and burn. A heavier bullet or easier igniting powder is needed.

Larry Gibson

[Bass Ackward]

Can't win fair in life, cheat. Here is Hodgdon's site data where "they" tell you what "they" think.


http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp


I think that it is more of a seating depth issue than bullet weight. The goal is to filler up. Your 255 grainer can still work if you seat as deep as possible. Crimp over the olgive or front band depending on the design. Might not be accurate that way, but it will go boom safely. On the other hand, it might just surprise ya.

[Mal Paso]

IMO In 44 mag 2400 outperforms H110 in Shorter Revolvers.

[Irascible]

too many variables possible. Same make brass? Same # of times fired? Same length? The crimp needs to be heavy and even. Is the expander too big? In my experience H110/WW296 needs pressure to burn evenly. That is, more bullet weight of more powder. Or as others have suggested, switch to another powder. I wish you would test that Federal primer against the CCI Mag and publish the results. I long ago proved to myself that H110/296 needed a mag primer.

[Lloyd Smale]

what kind of chronograph do you have. If its a cheap chrony that could be your problem. Before i got two rapped up in changing things id try to find someone with a differnt chrono. to verify that yours is giving correct readings. I had two of them and neither were relaible.

[bigboredad]

The last time I loaded h110 and a 255gr bullet I was using 25.7gr I had no problems and accuracy was very acceptable for me. How ever I did not own a chronograph at the time so this may be of no help to you

[Groo]

Groo here
Powders like 296/H110 require a loading that is about 90% full at least.
Cast bullets are not as hard to push and that lowers pressures also..
A rifle , auto.,or single shot has no bc gap so there is no pressure
lowering porting..
A longer barrel will give you more speed but the SD should be the same or not far off on a shorter one.. most of your speed is in the first inch or two of barrel, like 90%
For any given load a cast bullet will show about 100fps increase over
a jacket of the same weight, and the pressures will be lower..

Your load is not filling the case enough for a good burn, no matter what bullet weight
you use the 90%+ rule will apply ,, change to a faster powder like 2400 that is not so
load specific or increase load.
As to light bullets and this type of powder--- Win uses 296 for 125gr sjhp 357 mag loads,,
It is about a full case and if that is not a mismatch how can a standard weight 45 colt be?

[44man]

The powder and boolit should work but if case tension is all over the place from round to round, forget it.
Case tension with 296 MUST be even. If you feel any difference when seating boolits, you should be able to say where they will hit the target.
2400 does not need it so close and is why many say it is better. Powder changes just avoid a loading problem whether it is the dies or brass.
Using a high pressure primer with 296 in small cases just makes it worse.
Boolits must be released from the brass exactly the same from shot to shot.
Chronographs will tell you something is wrong but you should be able to read a target and say what caused high, low and flier shots.

[Groo]

Groo here
44man Thanks for the post about bullet pull. as I forgot that part...
For me, I just use 454 dies for all my 45 loading ,they are tight and my bullet pull
is up to snuff.

[44man]

Groo here
44man Thanks for the post about bullet pull. as I forgot that part...
For me, I just use 454 dies for all my 45 loading ,they are tight and my bullet pull
is up to snuff.
I do my best because I want everyone to discover what is causing a problem. There are variables and some boolits are less affected.
Even if pull is a little less, they will still shoot great, right along with tighter ones but you just can't mix them.
Larger calibers seem less affected too, maybe heavy boolits. Yet it is still there to some extent.
There is never just one answer so the man doing the shooting just needs to work out things to see what will change things.
By the way, I just read another new gun comic book and solved my biggest problem. I finally shot a one hole group at 100 yards.
Best one out of six! :mrgreen: