38/45 help needed

[Kitika]

G'day,

We have a Colt 1911 which used to be a .45acp until our government decided that anything over .38 was a danger to society so we got a new barrel in 38/45.

We have never been able to get it cycle consistently and jams a couple of times every match and it hardly gets taken out of the safe these days because its a pain to shoot.
From memory the bullets have a bit of trouble being ejected more so than being loaded into the chamber.

Does anyone have any loading information on these bullets or hints to make them work better in the Colt?


Cheers,

Kit

[jerry_from_ct]

Interesting caliber.
What constitutes a Jam ?

feeding? ejecting ? stove-piping ?. at what point does the "jam" occur.

Inconsistent cycling sounds possibly a variable of brass and/or powder charges.

Does this cartridge head-space on the shoulder or the rim ? meant mouth. sorry

You got me intrigued,


We have a Colt 1911 which used to be a .45acp until our government decided that anything over .38 was a danger to society so we got a new barrel in 38/45.


The reason politicians are totally useless, the .45 is too dangerous, so let's drive a 9mm bullet @ 1300 fps, because that will be safer.
And people wonder why the World's so F'd up. ;)

[Kitika]

Mainly ejecting the rounds is where we have a problem but it has trouble feeding them in occasionally too. We have tried a few different loads etc and played around with it a fair bit but we haven't had much luck. We never had any trouble with the .45acp so i'm guessing its something we are doing with the 38/45 loads that is stuffing up.

[Groo]

Groo here
Need more info,, is this a local wildcat ,,an older design,, what kind of bullet,load,length etc

[Kitika]

Its a 45acp shell necked down to 38super/9mm. I think the projectiles we are using are 115gr Round nose flat point and conicals. I can't give you much more information than that as I'm trying to fill in the gaps to make it work. It is an old wildcat cartridge as far as I know and from what I've researched.

[MtGun44]

I'd suggest more power or a weaker action spring if you are not getting solid
ejection. FTF may be lack of TC, or too long on seating of the boolit. Used
.38 Super and .45 ACP in 1911s a LOT, but never even seen a .38/.45 in real
life, only in magazine articles.

Bill

[bhn22]

There's a little history on it here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=68414&highlight=38%2F45+clerke

[jerry_from_ct]

I'd suggest more power or a weaker action spring if you are not getting solid
ejection. FTF may be lack of TC, or too long on seating of the boolit. Used
.38 Super and .45 ACP in 1911s a LOT, but never even seen a .38/.45 in real
life, only in magazine articles.

Bill

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the installed spring for this conversion was #20, which seems a bit much, if so, then MtGun44 suggestion would be the place to start.

[Reg]

The 38-45 is a very successful design from Bo Clerke back in the early 60's and other that just a general lack of intrest and the effort in making cases, there dosn't seem to be any real reason it didn't catch on.
If the barrel is properly fitted and headspace is correct, it will feed just about anything even a empty case from the magazine. The problems you speak of sound more like finding a correct recoil spring more than anything. The feed ramp would have to be almost square for it to be any kind of a problem.
The round itself ,if all being up to snuff, is incredabley accurate but preforms best if kept to the lower end of the loading spectrum. It was designed as a indoor target round and to this day is hard to beat in that respect. Some have loaded it hotter for varmit use but one is taking a chance considering how the 1911 is breeched.
I lucked into a Clymer reamer some years back with the idea in mind of properly fitting a barrel to a bolt action and really running this round through its paces. Project is still on the books.
I have loaded just about anything one could imagine in the various guns I have had but some of the better loads were:



3.3 gn. Bullseye and the Moderon Bond 358765 (158 gn. ww ) @ 900 fps.
Perfect function and accuracy even out to 100 yds.

6.1 gn. Unique and Lee 115 gn. TC or Sierra #8100 90 gn. HP
Top load -- approach carefully.

5.5 gn. Unique and Lyman 358495
Wad cutter load. Perfect feeding, great accuracy

Do note, all my bullet dia's. are .356 as my latest barrel is a Colt 9 m/m.
All loads shown work perfectly in my gun but do approach each carefully in yours.

These are just a few of many. Have been told that just about any .38 Super load would be more than safe.
My own experiance has proven the round to be more accurate ( in a tuned gun ) than I am capable of holding and has fed anything I have ever tried putting through it. If I had any complaint it would be typical of any semi auto in that it throws brass around. and the cases take about 6 operations each to make.
Don't give up on it. Play with it and get the bugs out and you will be rewarded with a pleasant to shoot and very accurate handgun.


:drinks:

[Kitika]

What pound spring are using in your pistol Reg? I know we have two springs one that came with the barrel and the standard .45 spring. What spring would you recommend with the above loads?

[Reg]

It has been several years ago when the pistol was put togeather but as I recall we went to Brownells and bought about three different springs and on a guess bought them mostly on the bottom of the poundage scale, our thinking being that one is not dealing with the same mass in the smaller bullets therefor one would need a lighter spring.
We had the factory spring to start with and experianced the same problems you are having but then again the factory load uses mostly a 230 grain bullet while now in the 38-45 , 158 grain will be about tops. No doubt a heavyer slug could be used but you are limited in the overall length by the magazine limatations. Also, you must keep in mind it was designed as a target round and I have found the 148 grain wad cutter to be almost perfect in accuracy.
Feeds like a champ too as the bullet shape has little if anything to do with the feeding ability. I think its the actual shape of the cartrige that controls its own feeding.
Just looked and Brownells offers recoil springs from 9 to 20 lbs. I would get a 9 a 12 and a 14 or so and then take it out and shoot it. Also check the actual fitting or head spacing of the barrel itself. If you do not know what you are looking for its easy to get this off. Too deep and it seems to only affect primer protrustion ( not good in itself but will not cause jamming )but if too shallow the lacking of ability to properly " lock up " quite often cause several different jamming problems but I still suspect the proper recoil spring will set things right.
Let us know how you make out.
I kept the .45 barrel and for self defense use that,s the one that goes in the gun but for target and just plain fun shooting, in goes the 38-45.
Perfect preformace combination in my book using the same frame and slide.


:2_high5:

[Kitika]

I thought I had better get back to this thread with my findings. After mucking around with loads of late using Unique and 120gn T/C Lee projies and 125gn conical hardcast commercial I have found 'the load'.
Started with 6gn Unique 120gn Lee - Several failure to eject
6.5gn of unique same 120gn - Once every two mags I would get a jam (ejection) - failure to eject and keyholing in the target at any range 25-7yrds.
7gn of Unique 125gn commercial - No failures to eject, no bulging of cases or severely flattened out primers and best of all very, very good accuracy :razz: I'm loading to max length of .45acp so the loaded case functions flawlessly in the mags and doesn't set the projie to far below the neck of the case.
Haven't changed the spring in the 1911 but my guess is it is about a 12-14lb spring as it isn't super light and feels comparable to the heavy spring 9mm Tanfoglio.

Very happy with this load it will be taking over from the 9mm for range duties as it is much more fun and the bigger cases are a touch easier to find on the ground :)

[bob208]

friend of mine had one many years ago. it shot and functioned well. the cases worked best after the second loading. I guess 2 loadings and firings formed them best. we never loaded anything lighter then 150 gr. semi-wadcutter bullets. we used the standard .45 spring. the biggest problem was forming the cases. the cartage head spaces on the shoulder. just like a rimless rifle like .30-06.

[Bigslug]

Looks like this thread's been dormant since before I joined the forum. . .

Failures to EJECT on 1911's are often, at their core, failures to properly EXTRACT. What's frequently going on is not enough extractor tension holding the case against the breechface, so that the ejector can't really give it a proper spank to get it out of the gun.

The function check for this is to field strip the gun and clip a loaded round under the extractor hook. Holding the slide muzzle down, gently shake the slide. The round should wiggle back and forth a bit, but if it falls out easily, you need more tension. Pull the extractor halfway from the slide so that the "lump" in the middle of it is at the rear of the channel, rotate it 180 degrees, and press firmly to increase the inward bend, thus increasing the ability to grip.

Provided you've got that working for you, a little more steam or a little less spring is probably the answer. The stock military spring is 16#. You might try one of the lighter springs used for Bullseye loads.

I REALLY have to wonder about the "logic" behind your bigger-than-9mm ban. I mean, we've got some DUMB legislators here in California, but WOW!