SAECO Moulds

[MikeS]

Hi All.

I see lots of folks talk about lots of different brands of moulds, but it's fairly rare that I see much talk about SAECO moulds. I just got my third one, a dual cavity #265 and just like my other 2, this one casts great! After pre-heating the mould, I just started casting, and had absolutely no problems. The boolits jumped out of the cavities, and only a couple of times did I have to lightly tap on the mould to drop the boolits, but out of 200 cast I would say if I tapped the mould 4 times, that's a lot! I also notice that the SAECO mould numbers for the most part are identical to H&G numbers, does anyone know if there's a reason for this, or did SAECO just copy the H&G designs? If they did, then the copied the quality as well, as I can't imagine a mould being any better than the 3 SAECO moulds I have! Of my 3 moulds, 2 of them are made by Redding, and so have the Redding warrantee which I hear is one of the better ones in the business. Now all I need to do is buy a nose punch for the new mould, and I'll be all set!

[MtGun44]

I have three .45 rifle molds "loaned" by a friend. All three cast about .456 - .457 max and are
therefore essentially useless as boolits, but they cast nicely.

Bill

[bobthenailer]

I bought my first Saeco mould in the 1970s ! since then ive bought at least 16 more and they are excellent moulds in every case ! most are 4 cavity, and i was luckey enough to get 5 - 8 cavity moulds when they were avalible . Saecos were allways higher priced than lyman or rcbs moulds in the same number of cavitys but IMO saecos are getting to be way over priced but the Quality is there . I have at least 6 saeco moulds with over 40,000 bullets made on each and they are in excellent condtion and make excellent bullets

[Moondawg]

I have no complaints with my Saeco pistol molds. They cast like a dream. The grease grooves on my two 45 caliber rifle molds are on the smallish side and the boolits cast with 1-30 run 457-458 also on the smallish size.

[Ben]

Of the 8 SAECO's that I own, I managed to get one bad one. A .35 cal. SAECO # 352 rifle mold.

The # 352 cast small around .357 " and was basically useless in my 35 Whelen. A phone call to Redding took care of the problem, I returned the bad one and received a new one. It cast fine and to the proper dia., about .360".


That's a much better track record than I've had buying new Lyman molds.

Ben

[deltaenterprizes]

I used SAECOs in my automatic casting machines and they held up better than RCBS or Lyman. They have a little copper in the alloy that gives the goldish tint. I buy them when ever I see one priced right.

[cajun shooter]

I have had several Saeco moulds over the years. The last one that I purchased was the 745 and it dropped at .460 with 20-1 alloy. 100 and 200 yard targets had the center shot out. I think that they are the best non-custom moulds available to the public.

[theperfessor]

I own several SAECO four cavity and one older eight cavity and all are top notch. They're just a little more expensive than other brands but the quality is there.

[cbrick]

Of my 3 moulds, 2 of them are made by Redding, and so have the Redding warrantee which I hear is one of the better ones in the business.

Don't count on that warranty from Redding. If you got good molds good for you. I've more than 25 SAECO molds and sang their praises for many years but the last two I bought weren't nearly so good. When I called Redding and talked with Robin Sharpless I was told, and I quote . . .

"DO NOT send them back, we don't need to see them, there is nothing wrong with Redding products. If you don't like that then buy RCBS.

That is not a joke, that is exactly what they told me. Nice customer service huh? They flat refused to honor their own written warranty. I only salvaged these two molds by sending them off to Erik Ohlen and having the driving bands cut to cast round and large enough to be usable. Redding’s warranty was that I got to spend money with a third party to make their products usable.

Redding did give me good advice and I took it to heart, I have bought my last anything that says Redding on it. Not only has RCBS dramatically stepped up the quality of their molds in the last few years but they do have a warranty that you can bank on.

Rick

[HARRYMPOPE]

there was a run of SAECO #221's with short GC shanks and they were good about re-cutting the cherry and getting new molds to us.But...... they didn't want to believe me at first and it took three others to finally talk them in to sending samples back.You would think they could have cast one at the plant a tried to fit a check.I agree RCBS has way better service.
It comes down to the design,if Redding has a design you want buy it.They are good molds.

[Doc Highwall]

I have had several Saeco moulds over the years. The last one that I purchased was the 745 and it dropped at .460 with 20-1 alloy. 100 and 200 yard targets had the center shot out. I think that they are the best non-custom moulds available to the public.

I agree 100% with this statement. I have about 7-8 SAECO moulds and they are all nice.
As a matter in fact I have three of the #315 175gr TCGC moulds. My first one was a two cavity that shoots so great that I bought a four cavity with my birthday discount from Midway, and from a member here I just bought a two cavity that I made both cavities plain base. If the new four cavity makes bullets that shoot as good as the first two cavity mould I am going to send the two cavity off to Eric at Hollow point moulds for his hollow point conversion.

[casterofboolits]

I have a bunch of Saeco four and eight cavity moulds and they cast excellent boolits. At current prices, about $3,000.00 worth. Why you ask? Used to have a boolit casting business.

I bought a second Saeco four cavity #115 09-122-RNBB last year to match one I bought in the 80's, the new mould matches the old one perfectly. Same weight, same diameter. I have never gotton a bad mould from Saeco in over 28 years.

[cbrick]

I have never gotton a bad mould from Saeco in over 28 years.

Yep, I said the very same thing for at least as long. Sang their praises to anyone that would listen. Then I got two in a row that where terrible and found out that Redding couldn't have cared less and did even less about it.

What does it seem Redding has turned into of late? After I posted on this forum my experience with Redding and their refusal to honor their written warranty AND that if I didn't like it that I should buy RCBS what did Redding (Robin sharpless) do? They sent out an email that slandered me. Nice huh?

Rick

[HARRYMPOPE]

[QUOTE= I am going to send the two cavity off to Eric at Hollow point moulds for his hollow point conversion.[/QUOTE]

spend the $ for the inset bar.its the best HP system ever devised!

HMP

[MikeS]

What does it seem Redding has turned into of late? After I posted on this forum my experience with Redding and their refusal to honor their written warranty AND that if I didn't like it that I should buy RCBS what did Redding (Robin sharpless) do? They sent out an email that slandered me. Nice huh?

Rick

Rick:

What is Robin Sharpless' position at Redding? And just curious, as Robin is one of those names, is Robin male or female? If Robin is anything other than the top person there (or close to the top) maybe you could/should complain about them to the person at the top? When I was in business I never took an employee's word to be that of the company unless they were at or close to the top. If they were the top, and I didn't like what they had to say, then I did as you do/did, went elsewhere!

It sounds like if I ever want to buy a SAECO mould new, I would get it from Midway, that way if there was a problem with the mould I could at least return it!

[Doc Highwall]

spend the $ for the inset bar.its the best HP system ever devised!

HMP

That is exactly what I want to do. It will be for target shooting only so it will be a small hollow point.

[cbrick]

I don't yet have this conversion but it is on the "must have list".

Here is a write up on this Cramer HP type of conversion.

High Capacity Hollow Point Bullet Moulds
(Inset bar conversion HP Molds by Erik Ohlen) (http://www.lasc.us/fryxellinsetbarhpmolds.htm)

Rick

[cbrick]

Rick:

What is Robin Sharpless' position at Redding? And just curious, as Robin is one of those names, is Robin male or female?

Sharpless isn't the owner (whos name escapes me at the moment) but he is well up in the company, don't know his title. Sharpless is also the rep that Redding sends to the SHOT Show each year. This did go to the owner at the time and he decided to back up Sharpless even including the slanderous email he sent out.

Robin is a "HE".

Rick

[Char-Gar]

I bought my first SAECO/Cramer mold in 1964 and am still using it. I have at least a dozen other SAECO molds of various vintages and they have all been high quality. I read on these boards about the quality of Redding stuff going down, but that has not been my experience.

[cbrick]

I am not saying that the quality of Redding is going down and since I am extemely unlikely to buy anything Redding again I'm not likely to find out.

What I am saying through personal experience is that if there is a problem with the very most expensive reloading tools on the market that (and just to be kind) any recourse from Redding is spotty at best. They sure treated me like an old dried dog turd being kicked off the sidewalk.

Do you want to risk buying the most expensive mold on the market and find that it casts .002" under groove diameter and .005" out of round and then be told by Redding "If you don't like that then buy RCBS"? Hhmmm . . . Do ya?

1964? That's 3 owners ago.

Rick

[MikeS]

Sounds like a company I would avoid! Chances are I wouldn't buy a SAECO mould new, as their prices are higher than some of the custom mould makers! But used ones so far have worked out well for me. I think I'll be getting my first Mihec mould in the mail today (one of the GB 503 clones) and it'll be interesting to see how it casts comparing it to the moulds I've used so far (Lyman, Lee, SAECO, RCBS).

[cbrick]

Chances are I wouldn't buy a SAECO mould new, as their prices are higher than some of the custom mould makers!

Yes they sure are, they are higher by double.

The last 4 cav SAECO I looked at not long ago on the Midway site was $175.00 plus shipping. The last NOE 5 cav that I bought was $85.00 plus shipping. My last 4 cav MP was $90.00 plus shipping. The comparison in quality between NOE, MP and SAECO is huge. The difference in price is double for the SAECO also. You can buy 2 brand new NOE 5 cav or 2 brass 4 cav MP molds for less than "ONE" 4 cav SAECO. Ask yourself in all honesty, would you rather have "TWO" NOE or MP works of art or one SAECO for the same amount of money?


I think I'll be getting my first Mihec mould in the mail today (one of the GB 503 clones) and it'll be interesting to see how it casts comparing it to the moulds I've used so far (Lyman, Lee, SAECO, RCBS).

Oh no! You shouldn't have done that, now you'll never want anything else again. New at casting and your spoiled rotten already. :mrgreen:

Rick

[quasi]

Neither NOE or MP offer cast iron molds, so your comparison is a little unfair.

[cbrick]

Neither NOE or MP offer cast iron molds, so your comparison is a little unfair.

?? And the problem is?

Or are you trying to say iron is so much better it SHOULD be twice as expensive? If so try pricing RCBS molds, they only make iron.

Rick

[cajun shooter]

Rick, I will agree with you on the point that if I was treated as you I would have a problem with a company. I will however disagree and say that saeco moulds are not in any way double the price of custom moulds. You can't compare a company that does not offer the same products as the other. As far as aluminum and iron, I will choose iron every time. If you buy a custom Hoch Mould in a 3 cavity iron with custom handles installed, the price is around $230. Show me where Saeco sells 3 cavity iron moulds for $460. I will also point out to you that if you read this posting in full, it will be a huge group in the in favor of group as opposed to the will not buy group. Even some of the top automotive producers in the world will have a problem arise. If you go to any dealership you will find a parts department. An entire company can not produce the mould you received. If you received 5 in a row then you could talk to the top brass to work it out. I did this when I received 5 Lee custom moulds for my 45 Colt revolvers. They had .453 bores and I wanted and ordered my moulds to drop .454-455 bullets. I was finally told by Lee that I was a impossible person to deal with and that I should use .452 bullets like everyone else. I demanded a full refund and ordered 2 custom moulds that dropped .455 bullets all day long. I did not however throw away my Lee Turret press and other handy tools. You should by pass Robin and see what happens.

[cbrick]

That makes no sense. Dealerhips? Parts departments? An entire company cannot produce a mold? Auto mfg's? Throw away my 25+ SAECO molds? Custom ordered Hoch molds?

Maybe its me but most of that went over my head, made no sense at all.

SAECO is twice the price of the MP & NOE molds I mentioned nor is SAECO equal in quality to either.

Rick

[Char-Gar]

I would not come to closure about SAECO or any company based on the negative experience of one or a few folks on the internet. You are only getting one side of the story. Life has taught me that seldom are things so one sided.

[hp35]

I've got a 44cal Lyman 4cav mold that work well and casts nice boolits. The only drawback it that it doesn't let the boolits drop out easy. A lot of tapping for the last 1 or 2 boolits to drop out..... is this normal?

HP35

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Bullets that do not want to drop freely from a mold...usually something is keeping them from doing so. The cause...again usually is/are a small burr or burrs that are difficult to see with the naked eye....found on the edge(s) of the bullet cavity. To get them off, with the aid of a magnifying glass or loupe, one has to, with the greatest care, scrape it/them with the edge of a razor blade or exacto knife. If you are dealing with aluminum blocks you have to be even more careful when you scrape, as alu is a lot softer than iron and you don't want to make any marks in the cavity itself. Burrs in/on an iron mold may be a little tougher to get out; some folks use an extremely fine file, but you have to be super delicate careful not to injure the edge of the cavity. If you are not sure of what you are doing you can always bring it to a jewelry shop and the person can do all four of your cavities in a few minutes...hopefully for a favor or a few bucks. LLS

[felix]

Always use a sawing motion with little or no pressure when using the cutting tool. Never scrape. Yes, let a jewelry shop do it, or a large machine shop that calibrates their own tools. They might or might not have their own cutting tools which would be appropriate, so take a very sharp exacto knife to them. ... felix

[hp35]

I forgot to mention that it's a brand new mold. I've cleaned it with degreaser and a cloth. Maybe a toothbrush would do a better job? What about applying a little Buffalo Arms Mold Prep?
Could it be a little bit of grease/dirt that's causing the problem?

HP35

[felix]

No, it is the little barbs that you cannot see. Those barbs might be sawed off with a boolit coated with a car cleaner/polisher. Rotate the coated boolit from that same cavity to "clean" that cavity. ... felix

[cajun shooter]

CBrick, Maybe that is the problem in your use of the Saeco moulds. I can see that you have a very locked in idea and that the rest of the people who take time to give input are wasting time. You could not even understand my point of comparing aluminum moulds and iron moulds. I wish you the best and hope that your life becomes a nicer place with out any Saeco moulds.

[cbrick]

I wish you the best and hope that your life becomes a nicer place with out any Saeco moulds.

See? That's what I mean, why wouldn't I have any SAECO molds, I have around 25 of them. Makes no sense at all.

Rick

[quasi]

cbrick, have you priced any H&G molds lately?I have my first Miha mold on the way, so can not comment on the quality of them, NOE's are nice and a very good value. These are the "good old days" for casters, so many great custom mold makers, and almost none offer cast iron molds to help keep costs down.

The only cast iron molds being made that are the quality of Saeco's are Ballisticasts, and they are more than Saeco's. I have 2 custom molds made by Mountain molds,one in cast iron, the other in Al. They are the same design but different weights. The machining on the Al. mold is much better, and it drops boolits much easier than the iron mold. I believe he has now stopped offering cast iron molds.

[NHlever]

I have wrapped 0000 steel wool around a small square stick, and then carefully closed the mold around the oversized wrapping of steel wool, turning the stick as I close the mold, The very fine steel wool will grab many of the microscopic burrs, and take them off. I have also used this method on aluminum molds being careful not to overdo it. It may not be as effective as shaving the burrs off, but it is pretty safe. I need to get one of those lamps with the magnifier built in so I can see what is going on. Hard to see those little buggers sometimes, but they sure will hold a boolit in the mold.

I have one .30 caliber Saeco mold, and it is of very nice quality, but it is also 20 years old so I can't comment on what they are making now. It is sad to hear that they can be difficult to deal with, and to be honest I tried a bunch of Redding loading equipment, and was not as happy with the powder measures,, etc. that I tried as I had been with the RCBS equipment I had before that............ long story. I didn't try contacting their custiomer service so I can't comment on that either. I am trying to be a nicer customer in my old age, so I might have asked in a reasonable way to speak to Robin's supervisor. There is no sense trying to deal with someone that just has a strong personality clash with you. It happens. I was a supervisor for years, and sometimes folks that I dealt with all the time would go over my head, and I always viewed that as their privilege. There are times we all could use a little attitude adjustment, and that usually adjusted mine some.

[NHlever]

This is Saeco's current view on boolit size, and what they are using for a standard........ It does look like they will continue to make the molds to the Taracorp alloy, though they do admit that wheel weights are a much more common alloy........ but of course not as uniform as the Taracorp stuff I would think.




Click on Chart Pages 1, 2, or 3 to enlarge

Bullet Sizes & Weights – How to Vary Them
The bullet diameters and weights presented in this list are based on the use of Taracorp’s Lawrence Magnum bullet alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic, 91.75% lead).

Bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably depending on the lead casting alloy used. This variation can be as much as 1/2% on the diameter, and 8% on the weight among the most commonly used casting alloys. For example, a .358-158 grain bullet might show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference in weight.

Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights (.5% tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead) will produce bullets having the smallest diameter and heaviest weight, with such bullets running approximately 1/3% smaller in diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with Taracorp's metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the largest diameter and lightest weights. This alloy will produce bullets approximately 1/10% larger and 3% lighter than Taracorp. Other alloys of tin and antimony, with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets with diameters and weights falling between those cast f rom wheel weights and linotype.

Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably smaller than wheel weights and in some cases will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing.

Within the limitations given above, the weight and diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the
alloy’s antimony content.

The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature.

Gas Checks
SAECO has adopted the tapered form of gas check heel to minimize problems encountered with the use of various alloys and gas checks. SAECO bullets are designed to properly maintain the gas checks when cast with Lawrence Magnum Bullet Metal or linotype. Alloys producing smaller diameters may result in gas checks not seating properly. Bullet weights listed for gas check designs include the gas check weight.

Bevel Base Bullets
SAECO Bevel Base bullets have a slight bevel at the base of the bullet. This bevel helps guide the bullet into the cartridge case. A benefit of using bevel base bullets is that the case will require minimal bellmouthing, and have a longer case life. Bevel base bullets are of course easier to seat

[quasi]

I have found when using wheel weights and Saeco molds, if you run your pot (RCBS) 0n max, and cast with a hot mold, diameter increases.

[SharpsRifleCo]

Okay this caught my eye to the point I felt the need to register to respond just on Robin Sharpless from Redding in general. I know Robin personally. He's a former NRA boardmember and definitely an industry expert. While if he said it the way its reported, there isn't anything one can say about it in defense, other than it sounds like he was having a bad day. Knowing his position, and having a similar one myself, I know how that can happen. I don't know what was said prior to the statement either, so its hard for me to tell. What I would say is its odd that someone calling in would have gotten Robin, especially right off the bat as he is fairly high up. Hell I know the guy and I still have to wait on hold a good while to get to speak to Robin specifically. The whole situation just sounds odd.

My thought is call back and talk to general support staff. A guy like Robin who is the one that buys the equipment, setups up manufacturing plans and does a lot of high level management is a really bad contact for a simple warranty issue. It would be like calling Ford and talking to a division head about a rod knock. Sounds cool, but usually works poorly as he's actually not in a position to do all the follow up stuff needed to make sure you get treated properly. If he's got a machine down and the president calling for a report, guess who isn't going to get attended to, the guy with a warranty issue. The machines they are using in there are better than anything in the industry and hold really good tolerances, so they are the folks we deal with, not that we don't deal with others, but personally we've had great luck with their stuff.

Just my 2 cents which is worth about what 2 pennies are worth, which if they were made before 1981 with todays copper prices is almost 6 cents.

Mike

[casterofboolits]

I have machined cast iron on lathes and mills. The best way to deurr cast iron is with a small hard wood dowel. Rub the edges with the dowel and any small burrs will be removed.

[felix]

Very good idea!!!! ... felix