improvised Lee crimp die/no size.

[Boolseye]

The following idea is for handgun calibers, where the Factory Crimp Die (FCD) has a carbide sizing ring feature.

Since I don't use the Lee expander (I have a Lyman multi-expand that I use for everything) I popped the guts out of a FCD and they fit in the expander die–voila, factory crimp w/ no size. Great for cast.

[wallenba]

Boolseye, I'm a little confused about what is going on. Can you give a little more detail about why you did this?

[Boolseye]

Sure. There's a lot of talk about the Lee factory crimp die (FCD) used w/ cast bullets–it case-swages them, which is undesirable when those .001 or .002 are all important.
Basically, I wanted a separate crimp die for my turret press so I didn't have to crimp my cartridges in a separate operation. Since I never use the expander die from my 3-die lee sets (I have a lyman powder-through expander die), and I do have the FCD for each pistol caliber, on a whim I popped the crimper out of the FCD, the expander plug out of the expander die and exchanged them (I happened to be loading 9mm, but it'll work for all my semi-autos). Now I have a crimp die that doesn't squeeze the life out of my boolits with a carbide ring, and I don't need to crimp my cartridges in a separate operation with the seater die. The crimp adjuster also swapped over, easy as pie. Just thought I'd share it with the community. Thanks for asking for clarification–I do tend to be brief to the point of absurdity 8-)

[wallenba]

Got it. I don't use the Lee expander either. I prime and charge my cases off the press. Then I size, 'M' die expand, seat and taper crimp with a Redding. I mix my dies a lot, as I find some work better than others.

[RobS]

A person can also use I believe the powder through die to do the same thing. Heck, I even used the body of the Lee expander for a seating die setup.

[Lloyd Smale]

I quit using the factory crimp dies years ago. What i do is buy an extra seating die and pull the seating plug out of it and use it to just crimp in at the last station on the press.

[bowfishn]

I just read about the FCD today and I beleive it is what has been causing the slight leading problem I have been having with the Lee 310 GC 44 cal cast bullet in my SRH 9.5" barrel at 1500 fps. The bullet is sized to just fit the throats and is .0015" larger than the barrel groove diameter. I am using White lubes Carnuba Red lube, there is a lack of lube star on the end of the barrel and slight leading after only 30 to 60 rounds. I started with a 5 to 1 mix of Mono to WW with GC, then I went to a 3 to 1 mix and still the same results. I have noticed that the FCD has grabbed the case pretty good on the crimp process but did not realize that it sizes the case down to make sure the cartridge fits in all chambers. I size with a .431 size die and the bullet comes out .4315 that makes the FCD squeeze down the cartridge quite a bit. The bullet is getting resized undersized and that is the culprit. I will try the crimp that comes with the bullet seater and the get an extra expander die and swap the crimp as stated. Will also go back to the 5 to 1 to start with again.

[RobS]

If you felt the resistance as the cartridge makes way into the mouth of the die then there is a very good likelihood that the die is in deed swaging down on your perfectly sized bullet.

[firebrick43]

Another way is to place the fcd in a padded vise and sharply rap the carbide ring with a tapered puns and decent sized hammer. Wear safety glasses!!!!

Carbide is brittle and shatters quite easily. We remove carbide inserts from machine tooling this way when insert screws strip out.

[RobS]

I've heard of people dropping in a large enough rimmed case from the top of the die to catch the carbide ring and then use a vise, punch and hammer. This keeps solid contact on the carbide ring as it's being driven out. Also heating up the end with a torch will loosen the adhesive that keeps the ring in place.

[bowfishn]

Until I found out it had a carbide insert, I did not realize the extent of the resistance. Yes I believe it was swaging the case and bullet down quite a bit. I felt no resistance with the jacketed .430 hornady bullets.

I had thought about removing the insert, but for only $10.50 I can get the expander die and keep the FCD for a time I may need it.

I am quite pleased I found the info on the FCD as I have been perplexed as to why the leading is occurring. I had no leading with my 454 with much hotter loads using the same method I have been using on the 44 mag. Both have been lapped and polished out. Both are shooting a bullet that was the size of the throat and .0015" larger than groove diameter. Both running gas checks with a lead hardness adequate for the velocity and a good quality lube. Accuracy was not bad, but not great. I was able to keep 12 bullets in a .875" group at 25 yards, would have liked to see better. It shot reasonable out to 200 yards as well, plenty good enough for whitetail deer.

[Boolseye]

I did the operation on my .45 dies yesterday. Heads up: you'll need a spacer between the adjuster and the crimper for that one. I used a small nut.

[wallenba]

Are we talking about the crimper in the seating die swaging the boolit down? Because I thought the Lee FCD was only this type which I thought did not do so if you used the crimp groove..
https://factorysales.com/html/xcart/catalog/dies-p3.html

[MikeS]

Are we talking about the crimper in the seating die swaging the boolit down? Because I thought the Lee FCD was only this type which I thought did not do so if you used the crimp groove..
https://factorysales.com/html/xcart/catalog/dies-p3.html

Your link points to a rifle FCD. The pistol one works in a totally different way. The pistol FCD has a carbide ring that sizes the case while the insert is crimping the boolit in place. The problem is the carbide ring also tends to size down the boolit that's in the case as it sizes the case.

I also did the 'swap' of putting the FCD's crimper into the expander die (part of the 3 die set) that I never used anyway, and just put the expander aside. I also have the bulge buster which screws into the FCD, so I still have that functionality should I need to use it. By removing the carbide ring (either by using a rimmed cartridge to keep it in one piece, or shattering the carbide ring to get it out) you loose the ability to use the carbide ring (either in the bulge buster config, or the original config). By doing it the swap method you can reverse it any time you want, and you make use of a die (the expander) that is otherwise wasted when using a Lyman M expander die.

Boolseye, thanks for the idea, I wouldn't have thought that one up, and it's a great idea!

[wallenba]

[QUOTE=MikeS;1305644]Your link points to a rifle FCD. The pistol one works in a totally different way. The pistol FCD has a carbide ring that sizes the case while the insert is crimping the boolit in place. The problem is the carbide ring also tends to size down the boolit that's in the case as it sizes the case.

Thanks. I TRULY get it now. The OP did not specify cartridge first, then in #3 he does. The subsequent posts re-confused me (is that a word?) . I forget that Lee refers to those as FCD's as well.

[Boolseye]

You're welcome. I'm glad a few people benefitted from it.

[milprileb]

So you cracked off carbide ring and now have a pure taper crimp die.

Is that the bottom line?

[gray wolf]

Made the switch,took about 1 minute, I used a hollow nylon spacer to take up the space.
Works like a charm and believe it or not it's a different crimp than the bullet seat die uses.
Both work but I like this one better.---45 ACP

Thank you for the tip

Sam

[Longwood]

Made the switch,took about 1 minute, I used a hollow nylon spacer to take up the space.
Works like a charm and believe it or not it's a different crimp than the bullet seat die uses.
Both work but I like this one better.---45 ACP

Thank you for the tip

Sam

HA!
It's your turn.
Where is the pictures.
Where did you put the spacer.
Please!
Or,,, How big is the spacer? What size is the hole in it?
Thanks.

[gray wolf]

No pic. But I can es plain.
I took the 45 ACP FCD and removed the Aluminum top, then I took the crimp sleeve out.
It's just a hollow piece of metal. Observe that only one inside surface does the crimping.
That side goes down.
Next I took the top off the lee powder through expander die and remove the sleeve in it.
You may call it the expander button. It's the only piece in the die.
Now the powder through expander die is just an empty die body.
Drop in the crimp sleeve from the FCD, make sure you put it in so the side that crimps will be down, I then put the Aluminum part that I removed from the FCD in on top of the crimp sleeve. It is a little longer than the one from the powder through expander die.
BUT it's not long enough to contact the crimp sleeve so it can't be adjusted.
HERE is where you need the spacer. I happen to have a Nylon spacer that just fit inside
the die body, it does not have to be hollow. It is just to take up space in the die.
It makes the adjusting part think it's longer and will now function. Anything will work, as said even a nut or a piece of wood dowel.
My spacer for the 45 ACP is 1/4" thick and and 1/2" wide.
Did I es-plain that OK.

[Longwood]

No pic. But I can es plain.
I took the 45 ACP FCD and removed the Aluminum top, then I took the crimp sleeve out.
It's just a hollow piece of metal. Observe that only one inside surface does the crimping.
That side goes down.
Next I took the top off the lee powder through expander die and remove the sleeve in it.
You may call it the expander button. It's the only piece in the die.
Now the powder through expander die is just an empty die body.
Drop in the crimp sleeve from the FCD, make sure you put it in so the side that crimps will be down, I then put the Aluminum part that I removed from the FCD in on top of the crimp sleeve. It is a little longer than the one from the powder through expander die.
BUT it's not long enough to contact the crimp sleeve so it can't be adjusted.
HERE is where you need the spacer. I happen to have a Nylon spacer that just fit inside
the die body, it does not have to be hollow. It is just to take up space in the die.
It makes the adjusting part think it's longer and will now function. Anything will work, as said even a nut or a piece of wood dowel.
My spacer for the 45 ACP is 1/4" thick and and 1/2" wide.
Did I es-plain that OK.

Sure did.
Thanks.
I was thinking the Carbide at the bottom of the die is the problem and you had replaced that part with the spacer.
I am wondering if anyone has tried grinding down the bottom part of the carbide crimp insert so cast bullets can fit into it better.

[gray wolf]

carbide is extremely hard and you need special tools to grind it, also very brittle.
Some guy's punch the ring out from the top. I tried to cut one out with a grinding tool and gave up. ( I don't give up much )

[Longwood]

carbide is extremely hard and you need special tools to grind it, also very brittle.
Some guy's punch the ring out from the top. I tried to cut one out with a grinding tool and gave up. ( I don't give up much )

I was talking about the little sleeve that comes right out. I have a green wheel on my grinder so grinding it down some would be no problem.

[Longwood]

I wanted to use a RCBS powder measure on my Loadmaster so yesterday I made an adapter for it.
I have been following this thread so while I was at it, I made a belling insert for the Lee powder drop through die that opens the mouth of the case a little so it will accept .454 bullets without swageing them down.
Then I got to wondering if a roll crimp can or will swage the bullets down some as they are fired.
The bullets are cast from wheel weights.
Have any of you noticed this problem. Do you think it could be an issue?

[Boolseye]

I have not noticed any problems with a roll crimp in big bore rounds–a crimp is necessary for a number of reasons, and will have no adverse effects. I always put a firm crimp on my .44 mag rounds and they shoot great, with softer alloy than that.