.35Rem Based Wildcats

[Good Cheer]

Has anyone loaded for wildcats based on the .35 Remington case?

[Glen]

Yes, JD Jones did a .338 wildcat on the .35 Remington case back in the '70s. I believe he called it the .338 JRS (for "Jones Rhino Stomper"). He put it together for IHMSA shooting and one of the ranges he shot at had a small rhino silhouette out at 250 yards for tie-breakers.

[rockrat]

For one of my "get to one of these days" projects, I am going to run a 35 Rem reamer in short and maybe try to use 7.62 x 39 brass. If it works, then I will try it in an AR15. Use shortened 35 Rem dies to load.

[MT Gianni]

IIRC, there is/was a 30 Rem and a 25 Rem also. I believe they shared the same case but it has been a long time since I have seen either.

[GabbyM]

Smaller case head diameter gives reduced rear thrust recoil.
X psi pressing against Y case head diameter. As Y increases rear thrust increases.
Taking that into consideration we get into splitting hairs. Does a nine pound rifle in 6mm BR kick more than the same weight rifle in 6 x 47mm ? Ballistics is about the same.
Any difference is just moot. A 6x47 will feed from a magazine while the 6mm BR is a singe shot gun.

What gets completely stupid is the short magnum cases that do not exceed the 30-06 ballistics as can be hand loaded and certainly not the 30-06 AI. They just kick your teeth out. Add to that the reduced magazine capacity and I’ll declare the fat head magnums an idiots rifle. Sorry guys but you really do need to dump that junk. Someone has to say it.

The 6.8 SPC chambering has resurrected the .422” bolt head.

I’m one of the people who think my time is better spent working with off the shelf cases rather than re inventing the wheel.

[scb]

IIRC, there is/was a 30 Rem and a 25 Rem also. I believe they shared the same case but it has been a long time since I have seen either.

The 25, 30, and 32 Remington were all based on the same case head size. To the best of my knowledge The 35 Remington is the only cartridge that uses that head size. It's only .013" in diameter smaller that '06 based cartridges. I don't know why anyone would want to limit themselves by using that case as a starting point, but to each his own. I'd start with a .308 case. There will always be a lot of that around. It appears the 35 Rem. is going on the "seasonal" manufacturing list.

[Good Cheer]

Would think that a 25 or 32 based on the 35Rem case would be a joy to work with in a Marlin.
And yep, I enjoy that wheel every time it gets reinvented.

[GabbyM]

I used to think like that. Right up to when I got more guns in standard calibers than I can keep up with.

When you can buy 7.62 brass roll formed and cleaned up for a song it’s hard to justify using a case like 35 Rem to work from. Then even the Labua 308 brass is cheap.
It’s not reinventing a wheel it’s beating your head against the wall.

For the sub calibers there is the 6.8 SPC and the wildcat necked down to 6mm. It’s been done already. Or that parent case in 30 caliber.

A while back I thought the 6.8 SPC would be a cast bullet dream. But those whom have tried it have been disapointed with results.

[Good Cheer]

Wow, that sounds pretty miserable. I've only been shooting cast for forty years now so it's all still new to me. These new fangled lever actions that shoot shot after shot are really fun.

[rockhard]

GabbyM,

My understanding is that head size doesn't affect recoil. Instead a combination of power charge and type, bullet mass, bullet acceleration, and bullet velocity affect recoil - along with gross rifle mass and recoil pad.

The combined momentum of the bullet and gas that exists the muzzle cooresponds to the force that is exerted on the shooter. The energy of a bullet as it exists the muzzle is a reasonable measure of recoil, but does not take into account differences in gas momentum (or thrust).

In principle, less efficient cartridges will produce greater recoil when compared with cartridges that produce the same bullet muzzle energy.

An even more important factor to consider is peak or "felt" recoil - how evenly the force is distributed. In other words does the shooter take a sudden hit or a prolonged push to the shoulder (of equal overall force). This is where bullet acceleration comes into play - specifically how evenly the bullet accelerates through the bore. All else being equal, larger diameter bullets of equivalent mass will accelerate less evenly or progressively through the bore - thereby imparting greater peak recoil. Other factors affect acceleration including power expansion characteristics, inference between bullet and bore (tightness of fit), bullet hardness, bullet lubricity and so on.

The size and type of recoil pad also affects peak recoil by spreading the load more progressively.

End of physics lesson.

But you raise a valid point nonetheless. A smaller diameter bolt and receiver is required because the pressure on the bolt face is significantly reduced - thanks to the smaller case head diameter. To take advantage of this one would need to purchase a slimline design such as the Kimber Model 84L or NULA (New Ultra Light Arms) Model 24. On the downside the action is longer (than a short magnum action) but the additional weight from extra length is less than additional weight from larger diameter.

I don't love the short magnums, at least not for hunting purposes. I can't think of where a shorter but heavier firearm is desirable. If the short magnums give a slight accuracy advantage (like the 22 PPC supposedly has over the 222 Rem Mag) then I can see their merit in benchrest format.

Any accuracy advantage the 22 PPC has over the 222 Rem Mag is insignificant in the field. Also slender cartridges feed better from a magazine, and (as you point out) more rounds fit in a magazine. In other words fat cartridges are well suited to benchrest work, while slender cartridges are well suited to field work.

From a practical viewpoint, when purchasing a rifle such as a Ruger 77 there is no weight advantage to be gained when buying a long action 30-06 in contrast to a short action 300 RCM - because the receiver diameters are the same. As mentioned before, a Kimber 84L or NULA 24 would need to be purchased to obtain the weight saving.

Speaking of the 300 RCM, if I ever purchase a short action magnum this will be my pick. It does away with the pointless magnum belt (and allows head spacing on shoulder), doesn't have the feeding issues associated with the rebated rim of the WSM and SAUM cases, and has a better feeding shoulder angle than the WSM cases (and possiblely more accuracy-enhancing shoulder angle than the WSM cases), and a more moderate/efficient/accurate powder capacity than the WSM and SAUM cases.

[felix]

[QUOTE=GabbyM;1300025]/
A while back I thought the 6.8 SPC would be a cast bullet dream. But those whom have tried it have been disapointed with results.[/QUOTE

Yep, need throating and twist for cast. Dead in the water before you start without such a mod. ... felix

[felix]

All else being equal, larger diameter bullets of equivalent mass will accelerate less evenly or progressively through the bore - thereby imparting greater peak recoil.

True, when changing "peak recoil" to "felt recoil". The closer the MAX acceleration is to the shoulder, the more felt recoil. The torque needed to twist larger diameter projectiles plays it game on the shoulder as well. As the projectile progresses to the exit point, the lever in the felt recoil becomes less and less because more and more of the rebounding torque is applied towards the upward push of the gun. So, all in all, felt recoil plays heavily on stock design. ... felix

[Pat I.]

I think there's two different conversations going on here. One is about case head size and bolt thrust and the other is about felt recoil. Not the same thing

[felix]

Exactly. ... felix

[Good Cheer]

No cast bullet wildcats for the Marlins. Oh well. An 8mm would be a lot of fun but there's too many irons in the fire already.

[GabbyM]

Catch there is Marlin has come out with the 338 Marlin. So they beat you to it.

[bearcove]

Best one I know of is 356 rimless. Just run a reamer into a 35 rem.

[No_1]

I have a 336 Marlin chambered in "356 Rimless". The rifle was originally a 35 Remington and the conversion was as easy as running a 358 Win reamer into the chamber. With no other modifications the rifle feeds like it came that way from the factory. I form brass from mil 308 cases with one pass through a Redding size die.

I have not pushed the limit but have read it is possible to do 35 Rem loads +15%. Not sure if I want to venture down that road even though I am sure the action will handle it.
R.

[bearcove]

I've been thinking about it for a while. Gonna buy a reamer.

[Bret4207]

Would think that a 25 or 32 based on the 35Rem case would be a joy to work with in a Marlin.
And yep, I enjoy that wheel every time it gets reinvented.

I'm thinking a 25 or 7mm. The 7mmx35 would be what the 7x30 Waters could have been. With all due respect to Ken Waters, and believe me I DO respect him, the 35 case offers enough more oomph to turn it into a near 7x57. And the 7x57 is all a man really needs in the lower 48.

[bearcove]

Or you could do 7-08rimless. 356 rimless is just a 358 win with the recognition that you operate at the pressure restriction of the action. 308 and 35rem have almost the same rim dia.

Rod

[Bret4207]

Yup, true enough. But that isn't on a 35 Rem case which is what the OP was asking about.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Just a little information on the 35 Rem., 32 Rem., and the 30 Rem. The 35 Remington is the only case to my knowledge that use it's rim size, which is .460". The 32 Remington and the 30 Remington both use the same rim size which is .422". I am almost sure that you can use loading data from the 30-30 and the 32 Winchester special for the 30 Rem. and the 32 Rem. respectively.

[bearcove]

Yup, true enough. But that isn't on a 35 Rem case which is what the OP was asking about.

Yeah my thoughts are drifting towards the 308 as parent case. Thought about doing something with 35 rem case but couldn't do better than the 356 RL. Especially when you count reamer and die costs. You did get me thinking about a 7mm. :bigsmyl2:

[waksupi]

Yeah my thoughts are drifting towards the 308 as parent case. Thought about doing something with 35 rem case but couldn't do better than the 356 RL. Especially when you count reamer and die costs. You did get me thinking about a 7mm. :bigsmyl2:

You are getting close to the Holy Grail of cast boolits, the .358 Winchester!

[nanuk]

For one of my "get to one of these days" projects, I am going to run a 35 Rem reamer in short and maybe try to use 7.62 x 39 brass. If it works, then I will try it in an AR15. Use shortened 35 Rem dies to load.

Rockrat, I was looking into doing that very thing with my 357mag Timberwolf.

I just needed to see how long I could seat it out.

I was calculating a 15-20% increase in velocity, with no increase in chamber pressure. it would put it right beside a 3030, with a 35cal boolit.

and having 8-9 rounds instantaneously would be a fun deal

[Bret4207]

Yeah my thoughts are drifting towards the 308 as parent case. Thought about doing something with 35 rem case but couldn't do better than the 356 RL. Especially when you count reamer and die costs. You did get me thinking about a 7mm. :bigsmyl2:

If you could do a 7mm-08 type of thing in a lever, (or a 284 Winchester!!), you'd have something. I think there were a few Savage 99's in 7mm-08. .

Wonder what a 7mmx45-70 or 7mmx444 Marlin would do? I think you'd have the capacity to exceed the 7mm-08 by quite a margin.

[bigdog454]

Myt thoughts were a shortened 35 rem, attached to a SKS, would make a H of a deer or pig brush gun!

[oscarflytyer]

The 7mmx35 .

Bret - KNOW this is an OLD post, but thumbing thru Waters' Pet Loads, looking at the 7-30 Waters/307 Win, etc. And had (what I thought MIGHT be) an epiphany! A 35 Rem case necked down to 7mm. So, did you ever go down this path? Or has anyone? Maybe like a 284 Win Lite, or as listed above, a 7x57 in a lever gun! How cool would that be?!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The 35 Remington was Remington's answer to the 35 Winchester, using the same case head diameter (.457-.460) as the 35 Winchester/30-40 Krag/ 303 British without the rim. The 25 Remington is a rimless 25/35 (.419-.422) head diameter. The 30 Remington is a rimless 30-30 (.419-.422) head diameter. The 32 Remington is a rimless 32 Special (.419-.422) head diameter. The 35 Remington is factory loaded for the Remington Model 8 semi-auto at 33,500 CUP for SAAMI standards. The Marlin 336 handles the 444 Marlin - 44,000 CUP. The 444 Marlin case head is the same as the .308/.30-06 with a rim. There have been a couple 338 wildcats on the 35 over the years, maybe interesting but little to gain. Maybe a 7mm/.280 Creedmore on a Marlin would be fun and easy to make brass (308) rather than using the 35 case. Before the 7mm-08, I had a short .270/08 Improved on the Marlin 336, a fun rifle. The case head fit THAT 35 Rem bolt without modification.

[oscarflytyer]

I 'found' it after I posted. Same basic thing. Layne Simpson's 7 MM STE. Only problem today is - there is not one single RN/FP jacketed 7mm bullet I could manufactured today. Used to be, but discontinued. Could always shoot cast, but really lose any advantage with lower velocity.

IF someone started making 7mm RN/FP bullets, the STE sounds like the bomb. Other would be if a 284 Win would work in a levver, but too much pressure for the Marlin

[Texas by God]

The Speer 7mm 130 gr btsp and other sp bullets can have their soft lead tip filed flat to work in a tube magazine. I thought the 7mm STE was based on the .307 Win (rimmed .308)??

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[starmac]

Iirc, savage chambered the M99 in 284 for a while, it apparently was not a big seller.

[rockrat]

But worth a whole bunch nowadays!!!

[oscarflytyer]

The Speer 7mm 130 gr btsp and other sp bullets can have their soft lead tip filed flat to work in a tube magazine. I thought the 7mm STE was based on the .307 Win (rimmed .308)??

Agree could file spires down. And yes, the 7 STE is based on the 307 Win.

[oscarflytyer]

Iirc, savage chambered the M99 in 284 for a while, it apparently was not a big seller.

Oh they did. I have one!

[northmn]

When 35 Remingtons were not found in ammo stores a couple or more years ago there was an individual turning out 35 Remington cases from 308's. They were shootable in the actions anyway, won't attest to the performance. Cases are at least close. A few Marlin 35 R have been rechambered into 356 Winchesters so they kind of go the other way and do not use the case.
As mentioned, you are dealing with a tubular magazine lever rifle although some lightweight Mausers were made in 35 for a handy brush rifle. They claimed that a bolt action 35 R properly throated with a long enough magazine to hold 250 grain bullets was a different animal than the lever gun as it was loaded to higher pressures and would push the heavier bullet about as fast as the 200 grain lever cartridge. Also they used pointed bullets. Not a wild cat but a different use.
In any other platform than a tubular lever one might as well use any one of the 308 modifications other than spend big bucks adapting to a wildcat. Some Big Bore 94 users claimed that they could use 308 and 358 cases in their rifles even thought they had a smaller head? They were not talking about loaded ammo.
Too bad the 25, 30 and 32 Remingtons died off as they were good cartridges better suited to a repeater than the rimmed Winchester cartridges. And I have older loading manuals that claim you sue the same data for them as their Winchester counterparts.

DEP

[oscarflytyer]

Own a Rem Mdl 14 in 35 Remington. Have looked at a bunch of Mdl 14/141s in 30 and 32 Rem. 1-2 in 25 Rem. I would own a 30 or 32 IF brass wasn't so hard to find.

[bruce drake]

Consider this....The 6.5 Arisaka case can be formed from 35 Remington cases with a simple neck down and reform of the shoulder... 35 Rem is just 1mm shorter than the 6.5 Arisaka cartridge. The 6.5 Arisaka case was designed and put into production around 1897 while the 35 Remington cartridge was designed in 1906 so....in theory, you could call the 35 Rem as a derivative of the 6.5 Arisaka with a redesigned cartridge rim....

Just to put a wildcat 6.5-35Rem idea in your heads.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Hawk Bullets makes flat-points in 7mm, I have clipped the lead of spitzers and filed flat for several Marlin wildcats and the 218 Bee. I have a 35-284x 2" that I use 225 Nosler Partition in, I clip the point with a farrier's hoof nipper then smooth to the jacket with a smooth file. It comes out 220 grains like the Speer flatpoint, but it IS A PARTITION. I clipped a lot of bullets tips for my Marlin 270-08 when the rounnoses disappeared (long ago). Yeah, the 7mm STE (7-07) came out shortly after the 7-30 Waters. I did stock up. There were 120 Nosler's 130 Speer's and 139 Hornady's, all Flatpoints available. The 284 Win in the Savage 99 is a big step up, matching the 270 Win and 308 Win when bullet weight and barrel length are equal.

[Good Cheer]

When 35 Remingtons were not found in ammo stores a couple or more years ago there was an individual turning out 35 Remington cases from 308's. They were shootable in the actions anyway, won't attest to the performance. Cases are at least close. A few Marlin 35 R have been rechambered into 356 Winchesters so they kind of go the other way and do not use the case.
As mentioned, you are dealing with a tubular magazine lever rifle although some lightweight Mausers were made in 35 for a handy brush rifle. They claimed that a bolt action 35 R properly throated with a long enough magazine to hold 250 grain bullets was a different animal than the lever gun as it was loaded to higher pressures and would push the heavier bullet about as fast as the 200 grain lever cartridge. Also they used pointed bullets. Not a wild cat but a different use.
In any other platform than a tubular lever one might as well use any one of the 308 modifications other than spend big bucks adapting to a wildcat. Some Big Bore 94 users claimed that they could use 308 and 358 cases in their rifles even thought they had a smaller head? They were not talking about loaded ammo.
Too bad the 25, 30 and 32 Remingtons died off as they were good cartridges better suited to a repeater than the rimmed Winchester cartridges. And I have older loading manuals that claim you sue the same data for them as their Winchester counterparts.

DEP

Once upon a time there was a "to die for" scoped .35 Remington bolt action used by an assassin in a Chicago gangster show. What a fine rifle to have for cast!

[Pioneer2]

Forgive me ,but isn't .35 Rem brass just about unavailable these days to even bother wildcatting? You may have more options Stateside but up North not common.

[oscarflytyer]

Forgive me ,but isn't .35 Rem brass just about unavailable

certainly not unattainable